911

Akirasho

nickellis wrote:

The two flights that hit the WTCs left from Logan Airport in Boston, MA. Which is roughly 190 miles from Manhatten. By the time the ATCs realised the flights had been hijacked the first plane was already buried in one tower and the second was already over NYC. Not much time to scramble fighter jets and perform a shoot down.

... my Big Sis was enroute that day... she lived in Providence Rhode Island which is about 50 miles from Boston and I was unsure of which airport she was using... I had to put that out of my head and wait for that reassuring phone call that eventually came...

It certainly represented a time of great uncertainty... while it's interesting in conversation to play armchair quarterback (the real football as played in the US and the rest of the civilized world to U Brits), one can only wonder as to the ramifications of shooting down a civilian aircraft based on the threats as we understood them then. As has been mentioned, up until 911, a person might have thought they had a chance to survive a hijacking... now, passengers are far more likely to be proactive, thus negating mid air intercepts (which I'm sure is a burden a fighter pilot is happy to be relief'd from).

I have yet to visit Ground Zero, but hope to do so soon (I too, had been to the top of WTC and find it hard to imagine they're no longer there).

Thanks to all for your responses. This helps add perspective to an event that happened here in the US but I suspect affected many peoples from many cultures around the world.

Daz555

doublem_1 wrote:

WTC7 in fact. A controlled explosion beyond any doubt.

And yet there is doubt - clearly (in fact the esablished position is quite the opposite). So why state otherwise?

2+2=4. Now there is something which is beyond any doubt.

rodgers73

doublem_1 wrote:

essexian wrote:

I was shocked and saddened like most people. It hit home hard as less than a year earlier my wife and I had spent an hour or two at the top of one of the towers while in New York on holiday. I still find it hard to look at the photos we took.

However, I quickly, and I am likely to get flamed for this, came to the realisation that these attacks were a god send to people like Bush and Blair who had been looking for a reason to attack Iraq for quite a time. I am not saying the US and UK Governments were behind the attacks: the Iraqis certainly weren’t, but I find it hard to believe that two governments with all the resources they have didn’t know the attacks were likely. Also, its hard to understand why no action was taken to nullify the threat on their way to New York. This is standard operating practice as seen twice previously in the 80’s and 90’s.

So by the end of the day, while I was sad for the 3 000 or so people who died that day, I was also sad for the hundreds of thousands of people I could see being killed in the forthcoming illegal and immoral Bush and Blair wars.

(And to answer a question up page, it was three towers. I have no idea how the third (Tower 5? I forget) came to fall when it wasn’t hit by anything.)

WTC7 in fact. A controlled explosion beyond any doubt.

F*cking hell. Please.

doublem_1

Daz555 wrote:

doublem_1 wrote:

WTC7 in fact. A controlled explosion beyond any doubt.

And yet there is doubt - clearly (in fact the esablished position is quite the opposite). So why state otherwise?

2+2=4. Now there is something which is beyond any doubt.

Please then, tell us what doubt there is? Do you realise how unintelligent your naive comment actually is? You see all you believers of the official story are simply not qualified to denounce opinions that speak out against the official story. Sorry that we aren't gullible like the masses. Actually look into the facts regarding the atrocities. Thats what we do, our opinions are solely based on facts. Nothing else.

doublem_1

rodgers73 wrote:

doublem_1 wrote:

essexian wrote:

I was shocked and saddened like most people. It hit home hard as less than a year earlier my wife and I had spent an hour or two at the top of one of the towers while in New York on holiday. I still find it hard to look at the photos we took.

However, I quickly, and I am likely to get flamed for this, came to the realisation that these attacks were a god send to people like Bush and Blair who had been looking for a reason to attack Iraq for quite a time. I am not saying the US and UK Governments were behind the attacks: the Iraqis certainly weren’t, but I find it hard to believe that two governments with all the resources they have didn’t know the attacks were likely. Also, its hard to understand why no action was taken to nullify the threat on their way to New York. This is standard operating practice as seen twice previously in the 80’s and 90’s.

So by the end of the day, while I was sad for the 3 000 or so people who died that day, I was also sad for the hundreds of thousands of people I could see being killed in the forthcoming illegal and immoral Bush and Blair wars.

(And to answer a question up page, it was three towers. I have no idea how the third (Tower 5? I forget) came to fall when it wasn’t hit by anything.)

WTC7 in fact. A controlled explosion beyond any doubt.

F*cking hell. Please.

Thanks for the well structured and intelligent reply...

Bunneh

Whilst my opinions on whether 911 was an inside job, a false flag attack etc are irrelavent, I do feel for all the innocents who died that day; and all those who died as a consequence of the revenge attacks afterwards. May they all rest in peace.

rick_chasey

Most conspiracy theories work on the basis on finding tiny tiny cracks in the story, usually uknowns rather than any evidence to the contrary, and blowing them out of proportion, ignoring the vast wealth of evidence pointing to what actually happened.

doublem_1

Rick Chasey wrote:

Most conspiracy theories work on the basis on finding tiny tiny cracks in the story, usually uknowns rather than any evidence to the contrary, and blowing them out of proportion, ignoring the vast wealth of evidence pointing to what actually happened.

Not tiny cracks at all. Wide open gaps. Why did the FBI admit they there wasn't any evidence to point towards bin laden when asked why 9/11 wasn't mentioned on his most wanted profile? Was the 'evidance' ever explained? Because I sure don't remember hearing about it.

Crapaud

Brace for epic!

disgruntledgoat

I always liked that crazy former spy's idea that they were missiles with holographs used to make the sheeple think they were planes.

That and the lizards.

rodgers73

Conspiracy theorists are massively tedious.

Especially their ridiculous notion that anyone believing the "official" version is some sort of gullible fool. Maybe its just a more coherent and convincing explanation than your rubbish?

On top of that, the basis for the "unofficial" version is usually some hugely overdone extrapolation of one crappy minor inconsistency coupled with something like "...ask any engineer if X is possible. It isn't! So how the hell did XY & Z happen?? See?? It's all lies!!".

As if I am actually going to ask an engineer that question and I'd actually be lucky enough to get an engineer who knows enough about that particular area of construction/aeronautics/whatever, who has all the data to hand, and who happens to know a lot about, er, planes crashing into buildings blah blah blah.

It's a bloody ego trip - "I'm such a wise man who doesnt get taken in like YOU idiots have been"

Sod off.

Hoopdriver

rodgers73 wrote:

Conspiracy theorists are massively tedious.

Especially their ridiculous notion that anyone believing the "official" version is some sort of gullible fool. Maybe its just a more coherent and convincing explanation than your rubbish?

On top of that, the basis for the "unofficial" version is usually some hugely overdone extrapolation of one crappy minor inconsistency coupled with something like "...ask any engineer if X is possible. It isn't! So how the hell did XY & Z happen?? See?? It's all lies!!".

As if I am actually going to ask an engineer that question and I'd actually be lucky enough to get an engineer who knows enough about that particular area of construction/aeronautics/whatever, who has all the data to hand, and who happens to know a lot about, er, planes crashing into buildings blah blah blah.

It's a bloody ego trip - "I'm such a wise man who doesnt get taken in like YOU idiots have been"

Sod off.

Totally agree.

Some colleagues of mine were on the plane that hit the Pentagon. S I take these things a little personally. And I really get annoyed when I hear these idiots rabbitting their nonsense about government conspiracies and frame-ups and even rubbish like their not having been any planes hitting the Pentagon but a missile instead etc. etc. etc. Right. So where have my friends been all these years? Living on the beach with Elvis?

Wunnunda

All conspiracy theories fall down on one simple issue : they all, pretty much without exception, require huge numbers of people to keep 'schtum' or, even more unlikely, keep up the same lie for years. And years. And years.

IME conspiracy theorists are paranoiacs who think people like George Bush sit in a Bond-villian stylee control room, running the world by flicking switches and pushing buttons like it's the worlds biggest train set.

BigLights

I was in my first job in London on that day. My dad was at the time a bigwig in the security services, I got a call saying get your ass to the safe place (an underground comms bunker) which was reaallly early on in events, where I watched the whole thing unfold from the back seats....including live audio feeds from NYPD, NYFD et al. as well as talk about what the defence posture was in the UK. It was very dark-what I expected to be a thrilling opportunity to be close to the action was in fact enduringly awful, listening to some of those lads on their radios is not something I will ever forget.

Ben6899

Hoopdriver wrote:

Totally agree.

Some colleagues of mine were on the plane that hit the Pentagon. S I take these things a little personally. And I really get annoyed when I hear these idiots rabbitting their nonsense about government conspiracies and frame-ups and even rubbish like their not having been any planes hitting the Pentagon but a missile instead etc. etc. etc. Right. So where have my friends been all these years? Living on the beach with Elvis?

double-m. It's your round, mate.

doublem_1

Ben6899 wrote:

Hoopdriver wrote:

Totally agree.

Some colleagues of mine were on the plane that hit the Pentagon. S I take these things a little personally. And I really get annoyed when I hear these idiots rabbitting their nonsense about government conspiracies and frame-ups and even rubbish like their not having been any planes hitting the Pentagon but a missile instead etc. etc. etc. Right. So where have my friends been all these years? Living on the beach with Elvis?

double-m. It's your round, mate.

Some people will know I'm sure. I/we do not and have never claimed to have all the answers. Just glaring holes in the story. And very very suspicious behaviour. Such as not releasing CCTV footage of the plane that hit the pentagon. Why not? Seriously. Why not release those images? The world has made questioning 9/11 a very taboo subject, just look at how defensive you lot have gotten. Again, I refer you to operation northwoods. It is now public so it's irrefutable proof that the US has proposed a false flag operation before, wanting to kill many US citizens in order to invade another country. Sound familiar?

Mr_Cellophane

It was said for the first time this week that Bush had seven warnings of an imminent attack on the US, but chose to ignore them.

Bunneh

Was watching a documentary which the other half recorded, it was interesting to hear the comments of a structural engineer who was at the scene of the Pentagon attack, and did see pilot uniforms, plane parts etc. of course it could be planted, but I've learned now to keep my mind open, just not so open my brain falls out.

I'd love to believe UFOs are alien space craft, and that ghosts are long dead relatives intent on stealing my silverware, but always seem to just end up throwing it - but these days I'm kind of open to alternative explainations from both sides and it's well worth looking in to if some of us want to believe the conspiracy theories - we cannot blind ourselves to the other ideas because then we're just 'sheeple' to other ideas.

rodgers73

Christ.

thomthom

doublem_1, it's time log off your Youtube account, stop counting youtube comments as credible sources and instead put a helmet on (not the tin foil..) that head and go get some fresh air on the bike. It'll do wonders on them brain cells.

You got some nerve calling everyone else naive, including someone who lost friends that day, for not believing your rubbish.

What part of "It would be nice if we could keep this thread from turning into an argument about whether it was terrorists or the government who perpetrated the attacks. If anybody wants to discuss it please start another thread about it." did you not undestand? English isn't even my first language but I managed to - somehow - get the meaning of this rather reasonable reply.

CambsNewbie

doublem_1 wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Hoopdriver wrote:

Totally agree.

Some colleagues of mine were on the plane that hit the Pentagon. S I take these things a little personally. And I really get annoyed when I hear these idiots rabbitting their nonsense about government conspiracies and frame-ups and even rubbish like their not having been any planes hitting the Pentagon but a missile instead etc. etc. etc. Right. So where have my friends been all these years? Living on the beach with Elvis?

double-m. It's your round, mate.

Some people will know I'm sure. I/we do not and have never claimed to have all the answers. Just glaring holes in the story. And very very suspicious behaviour. Such as not releasing CCTV footage of the plane that hit the pentagon. Why not? Seriously. Why not release those images? The world has made questioning 9/11 a very taboo subject, just look at how defensive you lot have gotten. Again, I refer you to operation northwoods. It is now public so it's irrefutable proof that the US has proposed a false flag operation before, wanting to kill many US citizens in order to invade another country. Sound familiar?

Now I know I have seen footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon on some documentary. Unless you are going to tell me that was a Speilberg moment?

rick_chasey

doublem_1 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Most conspiracy theories work on the basis on finding tiny tiny cracks in the story, usually uknowns rather than any evidence to the contrary, and blowing them out of proportion, ignoring the vast wealth of evidence pointing to what actually happened.

Not tiny cracks at all. Wide open gaps. Why did the FBI admit they there wasn't any evidence to point towards bin laden when asked why 9/11 wasn't mentioned on his most wanted profile? Was the 'evidance' ever explained? Because I sure don't remember hearing about it.

He was the head of the organisation that took credit (if you can call it that) for the attacks?

Pretty sure he said as much in those videotapes he used to send out.

It's not even like he hadn't got precedent for trying to blow up the world trade centres before 2001 either.

Like I said, tiny crack, blown out of proportion, flies in the face of the obvious.

rick_chasey

When you see a sh!t on the pavement that looks faintly human like and a dog standing next to it, with the owner saying "ah, I can't be arsed to carry that", I presume your instant reaction is to think the owner did it?

Frank the tank

There will always be conspiricy theorists beit 9/11,JFK,landing on the moon, whatever.

ordinary people view the "evidence" and the chances of probability and make their own minds up.

rick_chasey

Frank the tank wrote:

There will always be conspiricy theorists beit 9/11,JFK,landing on the moon, whatever.

ordinary people view the "evidence" and the chances of probability and make their own minds up.

I know, but it's good practice to take them apart at the seams.

Sharpens the mind.

I remember being part of a team that invited a holocaust denier over to present his case, and we spent, literally, 8 hours exhaustively going through, point by point, building up a wall of evidence that was totally bulletproof. Ruined him.

Was good fun. Shows you why we consider them 'facts' rather than things open to interpretation.

Hoopdriver

doublem_1 wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Hoopdriver wrote:

Totally agree.

Some colleagues of mine were on the plane that hit the Pentagon. S I take these things a little personally. And I really get annoyed when I hear these idiots rabbitting their nonsense about government conspiracies and frame-ups and even rubbish like their not having been any planes hitting the Pentagon but a missile instead etc. etc. etc. Right. So where have my friends been all these years? Living on the beach with Elvis?

double-m. It's your round, mate.

Some people will know I'm sure. I/we do not and have never claimed to have all the answers. Just glaring holes in the story. And very very suspicious behaviour. Such as not releasing CCTV footage of the plane that hit the pentagon. Why not? Seriously. Why not release those images? The world has made questioning 9/11 a very taboo subject, just look at how defensive you lot have gotten. Again, I refer you to operation northwoods. It is now public so it's irrefutable proof that the US has proposed a false flag operation before, wanting to kill many US citizens in order to invade another country. Sound familiar?

How defensive we're getting? Are you out of your mind? I lost work colleagues in that attack and you are telling me it never took place? I am not defensive, I'm insulted and you're offensive.

dylanfernley

conspiracy theorists are a product of the internet, sure there will always be the odd isolated one, but the net really empowers and emboldens them, they are flat earthers of the modern day.

I think that many grow out of it, but some make it a lifetimes ambition,in an ideal world they would all get the help and treatment they need.

doublem_1

ThomThom wrote:

doublem_1, it's time log off your Youtube account, stop counting youtube comments as credible sources and instead put a helmet on (not the tin foil..) that head and go get some fresh air on the bike. It'll do wonders on them brain cells.

You got some nerve calling everyone else naive, including someone who lost friends that day, for not believing your rubbish.

What part of "It would be nice if we could keep this thread from turning into an argument about whether it was terrorists or the government who perpetrated the attacks. If anybody wants to discuss it please start another thread about it." did you not undestand? English isn't even my first language but I managed to - somehow - get the meaning of this rather reasonable reply.

Some nerve? Again, I have been to ground zero and paid my respects matey, at no point am I being disrespectful. Why the hell do you, among others, thing that my doubts of the official events are disrespectful? I would love to know....

Hoopdriver

doublem_1 wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

doublem_1, it's time log off your Youtube account, stop counting youtube comments as credible sources and instead put a helmet on (not the tin foil..) that head and go get some fresh air on the bike. It'll do wonders on them brain cells.

You got some nerve calling everyone else naive, including someone who lost friends that day, for not believing your rubbish.

What part of "It would be nice if we could keep this thread from turning into an argument about whether it was terrorists or the government who perpetrated the attacks. If anybody wants to discuss it please start another thread about it." did you not undestand? English isn't even my first language but I managed to - somehow - get the meaning of this rather reasonable reply.

Some nerve? Again, I have been to ground zero and paid my respects matey, at no point am I being disrespectful. Why the hell do you, among others, thing that my doubts of the official events are disrespectful? I would love to know....

I beg to differ on your being disrespectful. As I noted above I lost work colleages on the plane that went into the Pentagon and for you to sit there with your tired conspiracy theories and announce that it never happened is offensive, disrespectful and just plain dumb.

Tom Butcher

He may be wrong but I don't see it as offensive or disrespectful. Allowing accepted truths to be questioned is healthy - part of that is accepting that some people will have somewhat whacky theories - very occasionally what was considered crazy turns out to be true.