Finally!

daviesee

Well, as someone who doubted Andy Murray's mental capability to win a Major, all I can say is that I am happy to be proven wrong. :P

It'll be a tough call to the BBC for the Sportsman of the Year Award. (Note how I missed out the Personality part )

Well done Andy!

rubertoe

I still dont like him though.

daviesee

rubertoe wrote:

I still dont like him though.

I'm sure the multi-millionaire winning sportsman will be upset.

EKE_38BPM

SPOTY will be a hard one to call, but I'll give odds of infinity to 1 that it won't be a footballer!

PBo

EKE_38BPM wrote:

SPOTY will be a hard one to call, but I'll give odds of infinity to 1 that it won't be a footballer!

I know that every year, there is the usual whinge about how rubbish SPOTY is and not really that relevant and I too get irritated by some of the choices, but this year.....Crickey!!!

Some legitimate contenders: wiggo, mo, Jess, ainslie, Hoy, (but prob won't be considered due to wiggo and having previously won), weirwolf, Sarah storey, Ellie simmonds, Andy Murray.

I just can't choose. But I'm moving towards David weir....wins across all those distances in one of the strongest, most established para sports.
If brad actually cares about SPOTY, he picked a bad year to win tdf!!!

At least team award is easy: sky/British cycling (unless team gb counts?)

Probably no footballers or f1.

I think Murray gets the middle England vote though.

meanredspider

PBo wrote:

I think Murray gets the middle England vote though.

I'm not sure about that (my mum, for instance, hates him). Besides, lots of people get confused by the word "personality" in this context and think they have to have "personality" rather than be a "personality". What he will get is the Scottish vote and I think that might just swing it in a really bumper year. That said, it's hardly important - I don't even remember who won it last year...

PBo

meanredspider wrote:

PBo wrote:

I think Murray gets the middle England vote though.

I'm not sure about that (my mum, for instance, hates him). Besides, lots of people get confused by the word "personality" in this context and think they have to have "personality" rather than be a "personality". What he will get is the Scottish vote and I think that might just swing it in a really bumper year. That said, it's hardly important - I don't even remember who won it last year...

I always thought the opposite was true - surely the list of winners shows plenty who win without any discernible personality?

I think Middle England vote for him because tennis is the most Middle English of sports.....

Cav btw...

meanredspider

PBo wrote:

I always thought the opposite was true - surely the list of winners shows plenty who win without any discernible personality?

Mostly the footballers

PBo wrote:

I think Middle England vote for him because tennis is the most Middle English of sports.....

I think you underestimate how much Murray upset the Middle English with his anti-English comments. Besides that, I'm really not sure how often Middle England actually votes for SPOTY The list of previous winners suggests not very often...

bigmat

I don'tthink anybody really votes for it. Far less than a bad week on X-Factor. Probably more like Channel 5's big brother. I know that angler chap would have won a few years back but he was ruled out - only takes a very half hearted lobby to get their man the vote.

Would like to see Wiggo take it, but not sure I really care and I imagine he is the same. Murray would be a worthy winner - he's had a great year and finally silenced all the doubters. I quite like the guy, just seems very normal if a little lacking in charisma. His "anti-English" comments were made as a joke when he was a teenager FFS, I'm sure I have said and done things that middle-England would find far more offensive (at least I certainly hope I have!)

PBo

meanredspider wrote:

PBo wrote:

I always thought the opposite was true - surely the list of winners shows plenty who win without any discernible personality?

Mostly the footballers

PBo wrote:

I think Middle England vote for him because tennis is the most Middle English of sports.....

I think you underestimate how much Murray upset the Middle English with his anti-English comments. Besides that, I'm really not sure how often Middle England actually votes for SPOTY The list of previous winners suggests not very often...

True about that last point....

As for unpersonalities- Hill and mansell twice each! Michael Owen, Ryan giggs, Steve "people think I'm boring" Davis, nick Faldo. Only 5 footballers have ever won it.

Interestingly, despite the general misapprehnsion about the wording of the title of SPOTY, definition is "Awarded to the sportsperson "whose actions have most captured the public's imagination"'. So they don't need to be a raconteur...

SimonAH

Yeah, but by the seven rings of hell he is the most miserable, boring sod in professional sport. Interviewed two minutes after winning his first major and all he can muster is a bit of a mumble in a monotone. Not even a grin!!!!

PBo

SimonAH wrote:

Yeah, but by the seven rings of hell he is the most miserable, boring sod in professional sport. Interviewed two minutes after winning his first major and all he can muster is a bit of a mumble in a monotone. Not even a grin!!!!

Didn't his match last, like 5 hours? Not surprised he was mumbling.

meanredspider

BigMat wrote:

His "anti-English" comments were made as a joke when he was a teenager FFS

His "anti-English" comments were actually in line with most of the rest of Scotland: he'd always support the other team in a sporting match against England. Didn't offend me BTW - I'm used to it.

PBo

BigMat wrote:

I don'tthink anybody really votes for it. Far less than a bad week on X-Factor. Probably more like Channel 5's big brother. I know that angler chap would have won a few years back but he was ruled out - only takes a very half hearted lobby to get their man the vote.

Would like to see Wiggo take it, but not sure I really care and I imagine he is the same. Murray would be a worthy winner - he's had a great year and finally silenced all the doubters. I quite like the guy, just seems very normal if a little lacking in charisma. His "anti-English" comments were made as a joke when he was a teenager FFS, I'm sure I have said and done things that middle-England would find far more offensive (at least I certainly hope I have!)

NEVER underestimate the ability of middle England to be offended....

veronese68

I hate the pictures they always print of him grimacing and punching the air when he wins something.
One of my Scottish customers told me they all hate him up there because he's miserable and plays a posh boys game. Maybe that will change now he's won a major.

EKE_38BPM

PBo wrote:

SimonAH wrote:

Yeah, but by the seven rings of hell he is the most miserable, boring sod in professional sport. Interviewed two minutes after winning his first major and all he can muster is a bit of a mumble in a monotone. Not even a grin!!!!

Didn't his match last, like 5 hours? Not surprised he was mumbling.

I don't think the length of the match and the timing of the interview is much of a factor. Federer will win a five setter, run his fingers through his hair and then conduct happy, smiley interviews in five languages.
Murray is a miserable sod, win, lose or well there is no draw in tennis, but you know what I mean. I don't think the anti-English comments mean much. Isn't that pretty much the default setting for many Scots and doesn't everyone already know that?

"...whose actions have most captured the public's imagination."
If that is the criteria, that rules Murray out I think. Mo or Wiggo or Jess Ennis or WeirWolf or many others are ahead of him. I was having a very boozy barbecue (is there any other kind?) and everyone came inside to watch Mo win his second gold. Edge of the seat stuff for the whole race.

If it was about actually having a personality, I would go Wiggo (but Mo is right up there too). A lack of media training goes a long way. Have you seen Wiggo's press conferences?

I'm glad Murray won, I hope he wins more. I wish he came across as happy more though.

UndercoverElephant

meanredspider wrote:

BigMat wrote:

His "anti-English" comments were made as a joke when he was a teenager FFS

His "anti-English" comments were actually in line with most of the rest of Scotland: he'd always support the other team in a sporting match against England. Didn't offend me BTW - I'm used to it.

His "anti-English" comments were pretty much cooked up by the reporter, though:

Reporter: "Who you supporting tonight, Andy? Anyone but England, eh?"
Andy: "Huh? Oh, aye" (In a, yeah, I guess so kind of a way)

We've mentioned media-training before with respect to cyclists, but, at 18 or so, he wouldn't have known that the headlines would suddenly become "Andy Murray hates the English!" and that people would still hold a grudge seven years later. Little wonder he's hardly sparkling in interviews.

Edit: Oh, and well done, Andy.

Edit Edit: Fixed quoting.

Stevo_666

Fair play, he's cracked it at last and well done to to him. He might even smile if he wins Wimbledon

IMO he's got no chance of winning SPOTY even if he wasn't terminally miserable in front of the cameras because of the Olympians/Paralympians that will be riding high in public opinion for quite a while to come. My money's on Ennis or Weir.

walkingbootweather

Its a tough call this year and I don't think that Zara Phillips needs to have a speech ready 'just in case' this year.

For me it has to be Mo for three main reasons. Running is about the most inclusive sport there is with top quality competitors from every continent, unlike tennis and cycling which require more technology and support, effectively ruling out a significant proportion of the world's population. The second reason is that Mo has a story (refugee made good, excited daughter, twins now just born, the mo-bot etc.) and the media like that. Finally, and this is where I'm going to get flamed, is that the British people and media are sometimes patronising and often fall over themselves trying to prove that they are not predjudice, so athletes perceived as white, middle classed and able bodied may end up receiving less support than their performances merit.

mitchell_inman

Quoting the most important bits...

Veronese68 wrote:

...when he wins something.... he's won a major.

Where or not he's a bit morose when interviewed doesn't really matter, does it?

SteppenHerring

I want Mo to win to see if the Daily Mail can explode in its own internal contradictions.

veronese68

mitchell_inman wrote:

Quoting the most important bits...

Veronese68 wrote:

...when he wins something.... he's won a major.

Where or not he's a bit morose when interviewed doesn't really matter, does it?

Are you a newspaper editor? I said I don't like the face he pulls as he punches the air when he wins. Then on a new line I said that people may soften to him now that he has won a major tournament. Yet you seem to be able to join the two together. :roll:

daviesee

Veronese68 wrote:

I hate the pictures they always print of him grimacing and punching the air when he wins something.
One of my Scottish customers told me they all hate him up there because he's miserable and plays a posh boys game. Maybe that will change now he's won a major.

Can't say that I have ever seen that.

EKE_38BPM wrote:

.... but you know what I mean. I don't think the anti-English comments mean much. Isn't that pretty much the default setting for many Scots and doesn't everyone already know that?
......

That's mostly aimed at the media who appear to go out of their way to wind us up, not the Country as a whole.
That said, they seem to "get it" now and are getting better.

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Reporter: "Who you supporting tonight, Andy? Anyone but England, eh?"
Andy: "Huh? Oh, aye" (In a, yeah, I guess so kind of a way)

Also, the interview was held just after he had watched Scotland get beat and knocked out - again.

If it is to be voted on based on being inspirational then there is only one choice. David Weir.

mitchell_inman

Veronese68 wrote:

mitchell_inman wrote:

Quoting the most important bits...

Veronese68 wrote:

...when he wins something.... he's won a major.

Where or not he's a bit morose when interviewed doesn't really matter, does it?

Are you a newspaper editor? I said I don't like the face he pulls as he punches the air when he wins. Then on a new line I said that people may soften to him now that he has won a major tournament. Yet you seem to be able to join the two together. :roll:

Apologies (now you know I'm not a newspaper editor!) - really wasn't trying to mis-represent you :oops:

Personally, I'm delighted he's won and think he's a great advert for Scotland (successful, dedicated, etc), even if he isn't a great post-match orator.

Wallace1492

"...whose actions have most captured the public's imagination."
If that is the criteria, that rules Murray out I think.

Errrr surely winning a Gold medal in the Olympics, first British male in Wibledon final since 1897* and first British winner of a Slam since 1936, these all go a long way to capturing the public imagination.

He is probably the biggest sports star ever to come out from Scotland in a major world wide sport, and believe me, he is well liked up here, probably more so now that he has eventually proved he is not a "bottler". Scotland has been plagued with "nearly there" sports stars over the years, but in Murray we have a real world beater. He will now go on to win many more, and will doubtless get SPOTY in the future.

Murray is very focused and intense, and as such does not come over very well in interviews, but he has got better over the years, and maybe now he will relax more. Anti English sentiment? For gawds sake, its anti establishment sentiment, we have had the English commentators ramming 1966 down our necks for so long that we want ANYBODY to beat England.... Listen to the jingoistic commentary on any England game, and you are expecting the opposition to roll over and gift the game to England "England Expects" etc etc. Whereas up here, well, we might, just possible get a draw with the Faroe islands.....

As to this years SPOTY, well for me Wiggo is head and shoulders above all others. First ev British winner of the TDF, come on, even my non cyling buddies realise that this is totally outstanding. Add to that Olympic gold and barring some sort of campaign from athletics, then there is no doubt.

HOWEVER, ongoing controversies about performance enhancing stuff in the TDF and the fact that a cyclist has won it 2 out of the last 4 years may go against him. But cycling has come a long way, look back when Miller won the KOTM and finished 4th, I dont think he even got a mention never mind even being considered for SPOTY.

WELL DONE ANDY!



*may have been earlier!

the_fuggler

Well, as a Middle England resident for most of my years, I'm absolutely bloody delighted for him. Fantastic victory.

veronese68

mitchell_inman wrote:

Apologies (now you know I'm not a newspaper editor!) - really wasn't trying to mis-represent you :oops:

Not a problem. Tongue was firmly in cheek. It was a combination of your post and UE quoting me and then saying about the anti-English comments. I hadn't even mentioned them.
I must say tennis leaves me cold. Having been brought up in Wimbledon I got rather sick of it.

rolf_f

Murray will properly warrant SPOTY if he wins Wimbledon. It's the only Grand Slam that really matters just as the TdF is the only Grand Tour that really matters. This is why Wiggo should get it over Murray.

anonymousblackfg

Personally I think the myriad of olympians and murray will split the popular vote, so Mo, Hoy, Ennis etc all getting a relatively low number. This leaves Wiggo and David Weir for their following to bolster their voting (similar to what happened in the Cav/Giggs/McCoy years). Though I think this benefits Wiggo, I can see more popular votes heading Weir's way.

jedster

I logged on knowing this thread would be here, half guessing the general tone but I'm stilll a little disappointed.

I watched the whole 5 hours. Truly magnificent sport. Wonderful tennis and the grit and fight shown by both players was immense. After the first set, I just felt sure that Murray was going to win. Even when Djokovich got it back to 2-2 I felt confident. Absolutely fantastic.

As for SPOTY. Well it shouldn't matter really should it? But somehow it does.

I honestly think that Brad and Andy's achievements are the two best by British Sportsmen in my 41 years on the planet and they have happened in the same year, the one in which we have a home (and very successful) Olympics. Utterly mad. In any other year, Mo or Jess would be brilliantly deserving winners. Not this year. If I ran SPOTY I'd scrap the vote and award to Brad and Andy jointly on the basis that any other verdict would be WRONG and we can't go letting the British public screw this one up (only slightly joking).

Given the tone of this thread seems to be that Murray's achievement doesn't measure up to Brad's I'll just make the counter case:

Tennis IS a real, tough sport like cycling. It's only in Britain that it's "posh", it's very physically demanding (few men can compete successfully beyond 30 which tells you a lot), it's incredibly testing of character and mental toughness (5 hours mano a mano, all about the big points due to the scoring system, etc etc)

The pressure and scrutiny on Murray has been insane - 72 years and all that. I know Brad's win is unprecedented but he didn't have to deal with the same craziness.

Murray had to rip the title out of the hands of one of the all time greats. He's lost 4 before to two of the all time greats. Note that Djok, Fed and Rapha all got to win their first titles against relatively lowly opposition - not Murray

Just think of what he did in the 5th set. You've lost 4 finals before. No Brit has won a men's title for 72 years. Two facts you are reminded about every day. You've let one of the best ever get back to 2 -2. You're staring in the face of being a choker, the greatest never to win a major title, all those press conferences again, 73 years. So what do you do? You raise your game and make it yours. Absolutely feckin' awesome.

Oh, and I'm going to have to raise the issue of his mythical anti-English comments.I can't believe that so many people are still falling for that Daily Mail bollocks. The only anti-English thing he has ever had reported is the "anyone but England" line which even the two (English) journalists who were interviewing him over dinner reported as a JOKE. Of course the MAil and others reported it second hand with toxic spin on top. Murray lives with an English girl in London. His pride in playing for Britain at the Olympics was obvious. Don't believe this nonsense.

One final thing - don't mistake this for saying I think Andy is more deserving than Brad. Equal.

Wallace1492

Excellent post Jedster, very well said.

As I said previousy, Murray is probably one of the greatest individual sportsmen to come out of Scotland, and he has now shown he is truly a world beater. For too long we have had chokers, in both individual and world event, they were still great athletes/sportsmen, but just never quite made the very, very top level - Monty, Tom McKean, Brian Whittle to name but a few.

However, taking this to a British level, what he has achieved has been amazing. 5 finals, with the last being a win, and to do it at the time of 3 other truly outstanding players at the top of their game is really what the grit and determination he has shown is all about. Who cares how he comes over in interviews? It is his winning determination that counts. The SPOTY should be for sporting achievment, not cracking a joke or being witty on camera, leave that to Have I Got News For You.

What Brad did was amazing, but he had a big team to help him, though that is the nature of the TDF. Brad though won the big one, the highest prize his sport can offer, with an additional GOLD thrown in for good measure. Andy got the GOLD too, but I would say that the BIG one for him is Wimbledon and completing a Grand Slam.

My head says that Brad gets it this year, but just by a whisker. Andy, well, I really believe he will now go on to even more success, and will get SPOTY in the future. Being a proud and passionate Scot, I would not be dissappointed to see Murray get it. Dead heat would be superb, but think that Brad will do it.