hills

radiation man

why do i still struggle on big hills ive been riding since 2007, on sportives with big hills when i get past 40 miles or less sometimes, i have to stop a couple of times, my chainset is shimano 3403, 50 39 30 my rear cassette is a sram pg950 12- 26

Garry H

Are you really fat?

dw300

Yeh^ .. how much heavier are you than in 2007, and how much less training do you do?

And you're 5 years older ..

smidsy

Also because riding up hills is hard work and always remains so.

It never get easier climbing up hills you just get up them faster for the same effort, so it still feels like hard work but you do that hard work for less time.

Garry H

What do you mean by struggle though? In comparison to other people??

davidof

What do you mean by big hills?

Maybe too anaerobic so you are getting a lactic acid build up over time that is not being cleared? In which case go a bit slower, fit a x28 rear sprocket on the back.

You could also try specific hill training: speed and power exercises. Find a route with 4 long hills, take the first in a low gear, high rpm, next high gear, low rpm etc.

The big thing with hills is to be small and light - think Robert Millar, that kind of build. If you can loose weight without loosing power that is a positive thing. I see a lot of good hill climbers around here, most are a couple of inches shorter than me but 20 kgs lighter! That's like taking all of Lance Armstrong's secret stash of EPO in one go.

radiation man

i weigh 76 kgs and im 5ft 6, how come people older then me can climb every hill without stopping.

davidof

radiation man wrote:

i weigh 76 kgs and im 5ft 6, how come people older then me can climb every hill without stopping.

They have a better power to weight ratio.

Garry H

As above. i'm also 5'6", but i'm 12 kilos lighter than you. lose so.e weight and you'll get up em quicker

dw300

radiation man wrote:

i weigh 76 kgs and im 5ft 6, how come people older then me can climb every hill without stopping.

They have 10/20/30 years of cardio work behind them? Their mitochondria are god-like compared to yours?

Just for comparison .. I'm reasonable in the hills .. 5' 10" and 68kg. At 5' 6" you could probably get all the way down to 55kg if you really wanted to, making you a fantastic climber.

Contador 5' 9" - 62kg
Rodriguez 5' 7" - 57kg
Valverde 5' 10" - 61kg
Froome 6' 1" - 69kg

CyclingObsession

Hill repeats are key, I struggle with hills due to aerobic fitness, take an hour to your local hill and go up and down it until you cant go up it again, do this once a week, I did this once and I already found a small but noticeable improvement. and every pound of weight you carry is a burden so if u can lose some weight, bike weight is important also if u have a 26lb bike upgrade to a lighter one.

radiation man

guess i should be spinning more in a lower gear, on the so im not building up lactic acid which at my age is hard to get rid of, then my muscles should not be as fatiged as i get to the big hills.
will this make my ride longer though?

mattshrops

How old are you?

I wouldnt change your gearing as you already have a triple which really should get you up anything.

Weight- I'm 6ft and 75 kg and could do with losing ~5-10 kg. I think you really need to look at this.

+1 for hill repeats. do 'em, do 'em again, then do 'em some more.

radiation man

im 51

ric/rstsport

radiation man wrote:

guess i should be spinning more in a lower gear, on the so im not building up lactic acid which at my age is hard to get rid of, then my muscles should not be as fatiged as i get to the big hills.
will this make my ride longer though?

just to clarify: we don't have lactic acid, it's lactate. additionally, lactate is a fuel, without which we'd fatigue a lot earlier (you'd be in dire trouble if you didn't produce lactate). Nonetheless, it sounds like you're not as fit as you could be, and this may include losing weight to help you get up the hills faster. Hill repeats may or may not be useful.

ric

smidsy

I have struggled with hills too and even made the mistake of asking for advice on here ;-)

The best thing I took from all the comments was keeping a good cadence seems to be the key. Not spinning at 100 but keeping it above 60 seems to help. Also there seems to be no substitute other than keep riding up bloomin hills :-)

It obviously helps to be fitter and weigh less but these thigns only come with time and strangley seem to be directly proportionate to the time spent riding up bloomin hills.

I have been riding since January after 20 years of doing nothing (now 40 years old) and the hills still knock me right back. I can go on the flat reasonably well (good enough for club rides of 50 miles) but always get dropped on the hills.

I can now go up longer hills in a higher gear than 6 months ago but still drop off the back compared to everyone else.

So what I am saying is - it takes a lot more time than you expect but improvements do come eventually.

BeauMaximus

Sorry to go off thread slightly, but it will save me starting a similar one.
I'm 6'1" and 80kg, so not a natural physique for a climber.
But thats where I seem to be best, why could that be?.
We do weekly interclub evening tts and this year, without fail, iv won on the hilly courses and dropped back to 4,5,6 place on flatter courses, beating small light guys on the hills (Inc some cat 1 riders) but losing to same type of small guys on flat courses which makes no sense to me.

Surely if I have the power to beat them uphill, I should be able to beat them
On the flat? But I can't.

davidof

Cadence problem, bigger gears on the flat should do it or maybe you are not aerodynamic?

BeauMaximus

Thanks for quick response.
Could be cadence, I certainly like to feel as if im punching the pedal down.
If I have to push it too hard/slowly, I change down.

In terms of aero, I have road bike with clip ons, racing zero wheels and slightly wide shoulders, but these are offset somewhat by an aero lid and skin suit.
Not sure that would account for the 60-90 seconds that I'm usually off the winning time on flat courses.

Could it be the type of power i put out, i.e. I find it easier to Do bursts and recovery alot, rather than even power.
In the marmotte grimpee this year, i raced this guy up who dropped me about 5 times. I could recover and ride back to him each time, but then could not quite stay with him. Eventually though, i beat him in a sprint over the last hump.

Tom Dean

mustol

radiation man wrote:

guess i should be spinning more in a lower gear, on the so im not building up lactic acid which at my age is hard to get rid of, then my muscles should not be as fatiged as i get to the big hills.
will this make my ride longer though?

Use whichever gear you need to get you up the hill - surely slow is better than stopping - if you can't get up a hill with a 30-26 gear and you've been riding 5 years, you're clearly not practising enough or need to lose some weight (probably a bit of both). I took up cycling 2 years ago aged 40. All of my rides are very hilly (from East Devon to Dartmoor), I've never had to stop when climbing a hill (that includes some fairly brutal climbs), not even got close to stopping to be honest. I just keep cycling further and climbing more hills (I practice climbing both seated and out of the saddle - it's great to easily be able to switch between the two). FYI I am 5ft11 and approx 10.5 stone, I have a generally healthy diet, but admit to drinking a bit more than I should (I love my ale and wine too much). There is no magic answer - put the work in and it will get easier (or you'll go faster).

smidsy

BeauMaximus wrote:

Surely if I have the power to beat them uphill, I should be able to beat them
On the flat? But I can't.

That only works if the other folk are also not as good as you on the flat.

Seems to me that you simply have a better technique/ability on the hills but are not quite a match for them on the flat.

Some folk just do not ever get good at hills but can go like stink forever on the flat.

Horses for courses and all that.

BeauMaximus

Thanks for the sensible replies.
Smidsey, I think what you are saying is a simpler way of saying what I meant by the 'type' or way my power naturally comes out.
In fits and starts, which helps me get over hills but not so good on the flat, or long alpine climbs for that matter, where i guess the most efficient way is a steady, even delivery of power.

How much of this is really natural preference and how much is (perhaps subconsciously) learned?
If it's mostly learned, I guess there is hope of changing it with the right training?

Sticking to hilly courses is a bit limiting!

Also, what you are saying about some folk just being naturally better climbers and some better on the flat goes back to my original question. what other factor(s) could cause me, being about the same proportions as fabian cancellara, be good at hills relative to my ability on on the flat?
Is there more to the equation than simply smaller/lighter means better climber?
I'm thinking things like body shape, muscle type (obvious factor I suppose), and torso/limb length ratios.

mattshrops

OP -51 is not old. keep training and try to lose some weight. One of the training books i have read reckons between 3 and 7 years to reach your peak in cycling(presumably if you do everything right??) so its a long term project- keep going.

davidof

mattshrops wrote:

OP -51 is not old. keep training and try to lose some weight. One of the training books i have read reckons between 3 and 7 years to reach your peak in cycling(presumably if you do everything right??) so its a long term project- keep going.

There is a big difference between 51 and 40 or 30 or 20. There are some good 50 year old riders but they've either been doing it a long time or converted from other sports.

It may also be worth getting a check up from your doctor at that age, or a sports doctor would be better. Make sure your heart is in reasonable shape. I assume after 5 years riding any problems would have come to light.

Radiation Man, what is your vertical ascent rate?

esmr

Don't post much, bit of a lurker really but thought i'd comment on this.
I managed to do this years etape acte 1 which was the first time i had ever tackled any climb that lasted over say 10 minutes. Living in Suffolk, its a bit flat here.
What I found was there is very little you can do to get you better at climbing hills than simply "climbing hills". It may sound obvious but in my experience, thats the case.
Also, be prepared to suffer and suffer alot. Being close to, or even in the red zone for an hour or more takes serious effort both physically AND mentally.
Since doing the etape, my training has changed and I am now reeping the rewards. Having suffered in the mountains, I know what my body can do and therefore, i realise that during my previous training sessions, i wasn't pushing hard enough to make any improvements.
I'm sure if you continue riding the hills you struggle on but push yourself beyond your comfort zone, things will improve for you.

ShutUpLegs

dw300

I think OP's problem stems from his definition of hills.

simon_e

smidsy wrote:

there seems to be no substitute other than keep riding up bloomin hills :-)

It obviously helps to be fitter and weigh less but these thigns only come with time and strangley seem to be directly proportionate to the time spent riding up bloomin hills.

That's it, really. If you want to be good at riding up hills then ride up hills. Lots.

Brian B

mattshrops wrote:

How old are you?

I wouldnt change your gearing as you already have a triple which really should get you up anything.

Weight- I'm 6ft and 75 kg and could do with losing ~5-10 kg. I think you really need to look at this.

+1 for hill repeats. do 'em, do 'em again, then do 'em some more.

What pish - is this a forum for anorexic people! I am 6ft2" and weigh 83kgs in my birthday suit and not carrying any spare fat and I can climb and hold my own with best of them on sportives. I do agree with hill training and lots of it and regular runs including lots of hills up to 100miles and over if you can manage it. I was not a natural climber but over the years due to practice I am have become efficient and I am 42 years of age and still improving despite many long years in the saddle now.

Laser man

Brian B wrote:

What pish - is this a forum for anorexic people! I am 6ft2" and weigh 83kgs in my birthday suit and not carrying any spare fat and I can climb and hold my own with best of them on sportives. I do agree with hill training and lots of it and regular runs including lots of hills up to 100miles and over if you can manage it. I was not a natural climber but over the years due to practice I am have become efficient and I am 42 years of age and still improving despite many long years in the saddle now.

I'm 5ft 10" and 58 kg...