Entering red zone and recovery times

Melter

I have been wondering for a while now.
What is going on in recovering after hard prolonged exercise.

I do one particular ride every 10 - 14 days or so, a very testing ride for my level (my normal rides I try not to go too mad, just get hours in the saddle). After 4.5 hours and hard hills I am literally just able to turn the pedals over and get home. I am completely empty.

Now this isn't amazing or anything I realise, but the next day I still feel shattered and wouldn't consider doing any exercise of course, the day after that I am still feeling a bit drained and generally will go for an easy run or light spin on the bike, but I know that my legs will feel heavy and tired for maybe 3 or 4 days.

So I can't help but wonder what is actually recovering. Firstly I suppose, and probably the quickest thing to recover is water take-up and glycogen recovery (which I believe is linked as glycogen stores itself partnered with water). But after this, what is going on?
Muscle tissue needs to repair as well, so I assume this will take an amout of time too, although I'm not sure how long this will take. Apart from this, is there anything else recovering?

The times I've seen quoted for "full" recovery after endurance events are surprisingly long, weeks for longer events...what is happening? what is recovering into the period after the initial days?

As well as this, if you watch cycling events, commentators often talk about having such n such a tour in his legs, and things like "he doesn't want to go into the red zone as he has such n such a race next week. Etc.

So, does anyone know what physiological processes are happening in long term recovery, or what has happened in the red zone that demands such long recovery times?

dw300

I'd consider the Red Zone as entering the Anaerobic Training Zone. That's different from what you've described, which is more of a cumulative fatigue.

Chances are that on the ride you describe it is muscular fatigue that is causing you longer recovery than anything else. You're doing 'hard hills' and big distance in the same ride. When training, you only need to push yourself just beyond your limits in order for your body to adapt. You're going way beyond.

I'd say that what you are doing isn't really 'training' as such. If you're riding 4-5 hours and not racing, you should do it at endurance pace so as not to destroy your legs, meaning you should be able to train again after minimal recovery. If you actually want to stress your legs, or train your VO2 max or anaerobic capacity, you could do that in a half hour training session.

I guess these rides are fine as a test or if you know you aren't going to ride for a few days. but if you want to train more often, then more focused rides or lowering the intensity of the long ones might benefit you better.

ut_och_cykla

Muscle protein synthesis takes at least up to 48 hours - then there are all kinds of enzyme systems that have to be 're-set' - as well as hormones etc. Also I think there are a lot of enzymes floating around after very hard efforts that need to be cleared and this also takes quiet a while. If I remember correctly amateur marathon runners have the enzyme profiles of car crash victims(from all the pounding) and this takes up to 2 weeks to clear - but my memory is rubbish.....

Melter

ut_och_cykla wrote:

Muscle protein synthesis takes at least up to 48 hours - then there are all kinds of enzyme systems that have to be 're-set' - as well as hormones etc. Also I think there are a lot of enzymes floating around after very hard efforts that need to be cleared and this also takes quiet a while. If I remember correctly amateur marathon runners have the enzyme profiles of car crash victims(from all the pounding) and this takes up to 2 weeks to clear - but my memory is rubbish.....

This is probably what people talk about when talking about the longer time recovery then. I had read about cortisol levels rising dramatically after hard exercise so this makes a lot of sense.
Unfortunately the web in it's incredible depth and variation does not make it easy to understand this particular area for a layman, it seems to be either the "drink plenty of water and get lots of rest after exercise" scenario, or the medical college scientific reports that have me lost in half a sentence.
I can't seem to find much that is in the middle ground explaining what takes so long to recover specifically.

@ dw300, your remarks are well noted, I agree that I shouldn't be stressing myself like this regularly and infact I tend to try and keep myself as much as possible when cycling and running to a low heart rate.
These rides are sort of personal tests - although I'm starting to think that I should do it less often...

ut_och_cykla

The recovery isn't just getting back to where you were - in theory it should be getting you back to a little bit better adapted to what you've been doing. It will have a training effect but as it is so hard and requires such a long recovery time the overall effect on fitness is proably minimal- what you gain is lost by long rest/inability to train hard for a few days. You will get better at doing it in other ways, develop feeding schedules that enhance performance, brain will get used to it etc, but as long term training for muscles & cardiovascular I would give it a miss - do it once a month or even less often adn accept you won't be able to do much in eth way of traing afterwards.

Melter

ut_och_cykla wrote:

The recovery isn't just getting back to where you were - in theory it should be getting you back to a little bit better adapted to what you've been doing. It will have a training effect but as it is so hard and requires such a long recovery time the overall effect on fitness is proably minimal- what you gain is lost by long rest/inability to train hard for a few days. You will get better at doing it in other ways, develop feeding schedules that enhance performance, brain will get used to it etc, but as long term training for muscles & cardiovascular I would give it a miss - do it once a month or even less often adn accept you won't be able to do much in eth way of traing afterwards.

This makes a lot of sense, I will be more carefull about pushing so deep from now on I think

StillGoing

dw300 wrote:

I'd consider the Red Zone as entering the Anaerobic Training Zone. That's different from what you've described, which is more of a cumulative fatigue.

Chances are that on the ride you describe it is muscular fatigue that is causing you longer recovery than anything else. You're doing 'hard hills' and big distance in the same ride. When training, you only need to push yourself just beyond your limits in order for your body to adapt. You're going way beyond.

I'd say that what you are doing isn't really 'training' as such. If you're riding 4-5 hours and not racing, you should do it at endurance pace so as not to destroy your legs, meaning you should be able to train again after minimal recovery. If you actually want to stress your legs, or train your VO2 max or anaerobic capacity, you could do that in a half hour training session.

I guess these rides are fine as a test or if you know you aren't going to ride for a few days. but if you want to train more often, then more focused rides or lowering the intensity of the long ones might benefit you better.

Hallelujah, I wish my cycling buddy would understand this. I'm regularly getting back after rides having exceeded what I thought was my max HR (179bpm the other day for a 51 year old) with an average HR in Z5 for a 3 hour plus ride.