One for the pedants: On a database or in a database

davis

TailWindHome wrote:

DDD you are public sector

The data have been lost.

FTFY.

mmmmmmm. Pedantry.

DonDaddyD

I explained to a certain staff member in the position of writing publications to the outside world that this website has stated that the correct term is 'in' the database. I explained who you were, what some of your jobs are etc etc.

He has stated that the term is 'on' the database and he will be following the Guardian's use of the term.

DonDaddyD

I think it's 'in' the database as well.

kelsen

Data is an intangible concept, like spiritual energy or the Force.

The data is with the database.

May the Force be with you.

rjsterry

Taking a slightly non-IT approach, on and in generally refer to physical objects. Information itself is not a physical thing, so neither on nor in adequately describe the situation. A similar confusion arises with books. By convention we say that the words are in the book, but on the page, but then again we use the phrase "on the books". The only thing really on the page is some ink, arranged in patterns of symbols in which information is encoded.

bompington

Agent57 wrote:

(But on a related note, should it be "the data are stored", since data is plural for datum? )

Reading through the thread from the start I have been increasingly amazed that it took this long to point out the really important error being made here: all these people sitting on their ba and posting on fora (or should that be in fora?) who don't know that data is plural. This should be one of the basic criterias for allowing people on the internet.

rick_chasey

bompington wrote:

Agent57 wrote:

(But on a related note, should it be "the data are stored", since data is plural for datum? )

Reading through the thread from the start I have been increasingly amazed that it took this long to point out the really important error being made here: all these people sitting on their ba and posting on fora (or should that be in fora?) who don't know that data is plural. This should be one of the basic criterias for allowing people on the internet.

Speaking of grammatical errors.

MrSweary

One must open and close a database. Hence 'in' a database. My two bits anyway.

Gah - missus is trying to wean me of pedantry. Damn you all!

edhornby

In.

bompington

Rick Chasey wrote:

bompington wrote:

Agent57 wrote:

(But on a related note, should it be "the data are stored", since data is plural for datum? )

Reading through the thread from the start I have been increasingly amazed that it took this long to point out the really important error being made here: all these people sitting on their ba and posting on fora (or should that be in fora?) who don't know that data is plural. This should be one of the basic criterias (please note that this is a subtle joke, based on my existing knowledge that the greek word "κριτεριον" from which "criterion" comes has the standard plural for a second declension neuter noun , -α: and so criteria is already plural) for allowing people on the internet.

Speaking of grammar errors.

Sorry, hope this makes it clearer

rick_chasey

Realised my own mistake - grammatical errors (rather than grammar errors..).

tailwindhome

davis wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

DDD you are public sector

The data have been lost.

FTFY.

mmmmmmm. Pedantry.

Now your just being silly.

apreading

FWIW, I think the two are largely interchangeable as the english language has evolved now.

We regularly refer to something as being 'on-file' and have done so for some decades now - even though, in the days of paper files, whilst the record was on paper, it was physically inside the file.

We talk about something being 'on a list', rather than within a list.

However, I am not sure I have ever heard the term 'on a database' or 'on a word document' before and certainly not often. Generally accepted and used practice is definately 'IN' for both those examples - but that doesnt mean ON is not correct as there is evidence to say it should be as valid in this case as in other examples where it is accepted usage.

Now, an even more interesting conundrum - could you say 'on a record' or 'on a table' for data in a database? I think these should both be IN, but find ON more acceptable in these cases than when speaking about data in a database.

walkingbootweather

DonDaddyD wrote:

I explained to a certain staff member in the position of writing publications to the outside world that this website has stated that the correct term is 'in' the database. I explained who you were, what some of your jobs are etc etc.

He has stated that the term is 'on' the database and he will be following the Guardian's use of the term.

Have you asked him how he proposes to ensure that the data doesn't fall 'OFF' his database? I imagine he will need to incorperate a whole new security layer comprising velcro and sticky tape.

If he puts more data 'ON' his database, will he need to take this off again before he can access the earlier stuff?

night_porter

When you are adding records or data to existing records usually you are using a screen so you are viewing the data on a screen.

However, once the data has been added it is in the database but you can of course see/amend it by viewing it on a screen.

Clear as mud really!

Agent57

apreading wrote:

Now, an even more interesting conundrum - could you say 'on a record' or 'on a table' for data in a database? I think these should both be IN, but find ON more acceptable in these cases than when speaking about data in a database.

I say "in a row", "in a column", "in a table."

Regarding "fora" versus "forums", I'm pragmatic. Fora may be the correct plural form of forum as far as Latin's concerned; but we're not speaking Latin. We're speaking (OK, typing and reading) English, and in English we generally just add an 's' to form the plural. So forums.

The one that I really don't get, it why we say "leftenant."

DrLex

Agent57 wrote:

apreading wrote:

[...]

The one that I really don't get, it why we say "leftenant."

Partly due to Old French or possibly the 'u' being written as a 'v', but mostly to annoy the Septics & the cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys.

rjsterry

Agent57 wrote:

apreading wrote:

Now, an even more interesting conundrum - could you say 'on a record' or 'on a table' for data in a database? I think these should both be IN, but find ON more acceptable in these cases than when speaking about data in a database.

I say "in a row", "in a column", "in a table."

Regarding "fora" versus "forums", I'm pragmatic. Fora may be the correct plural form of forum as far as Latin's concerned; but we're not speaking Latin. We're speaking (OK, typing and reading) English, and in English we generally just add an 's' to form the plural. So forums.

The one that I really don't get, it why we say "leftenant."

The pronunciation of some English names are even more divorced from their spellings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_in_English_with_counterintuitive_pronunciations