Muscle mass for circuit racing

shinsplint

Sorry, but Its that question again... If I built my legs up with strength exercises i.e. squats, leg press in the gym etc, would I gain strength for sprinting ability and speed performance.

I've recently started racing, and my local circuit is almost pan flat. There's no denying the fact that generally speaking the bigger riders have more acceleration and instant power.

I'm currently about 10st 8 and 6ft 1, so quite thin for my height. In previous years, riding hilly sportives, any extra weight would have been a disadvantage on the climbs, but at the moment most of my riding is relatively flat and my priority is speed and attacking ability on the flat.

Its not easy for me gaining weight, but if I would benefit then i'd give it a good go through the winter.

What are your thoughts ??

ut_och_cykla

My own personal thoughts - train for strength - heavy weights (2-5 reps-after a period of adaptation) etc. This should not put very much extra weight on and might help - but some focused interval training would probably help too perhaps more so. So weights off season adn more intervals as you go into the New Year?
If yu do choose gym - get good technique, use free weights (skip the leg press machine!), do multi joint exercises like dead lift, squats, lunges etc.

jgsi

Please no need to apologise for bringing up the weight training thread again..

majority will say - nay
minority will say - yay
or ....


If was wanting to be a crit king in 2013, I'd be developing or having developed for me , a training plan that will make me a crit king via vicious usage of the pedal cycle.

Tom Dean

ShinSplint wrote:

Sorry, but Its that question again...

Why ask the same question again when you know this has been done to death FFS!?

shinsplint

Tom Dean wrote:

ShinSplint wrote:

Sorry, but Its that question again...

Why ask the same question again when you know this has been done to death FFS!?

Because its not exactly the same question, FFS !!!!!

The last time I read a similar question, the OP was talking about general all round cycling, not specifically circuit racing, FFS !!!!!

dw300

You can change your physiology, but it'll take a long long time, and it'll compromise your general training.

Do what you're built for. Find your own niche and excel at it.

You're probably far better off pushing a gear or two larger than what you currently find comfortable rather than lifting weights.

Having done a bodybuilding type training regime for the last 3 years, I can tell you that if you are doing 'leg day' properly, you'll barely be walking for a couple of days after, nevermind cycling.

Tom Dean

Oh OK I guess you used the search function and came up with one topic.

shinsplint

Tom Dean wrote:

Oh OK I guess you used the search function and came up with one topic.

whats your beef? If it upsets you that much and you have nothing useful to say then stay the fuck away. Simples.

Thanks for the helpful replies by the way guys.

Tom Dean

I have got something useful to say: use the search function.

Alex_Simmons/RST

ShinSplint wrote:

What are your thoughts ??

The most important exercises you can do to improve neuromuscular and top end anaerobic power are anything involving short (from 5 to 30-second) very hard accelerations/top speed work on the bike. Everything else you do is secondary/tertiary.

So if you are determined to improve that facet or your cycling, and are not first doing this type of training on a regular basis, then doing all the secondary/tertiary stuff is a waste of time. No point being strong and slow.

If you are having issues with repeatability of such efforts (e.g. eventually they crack you), then keep in mind that recovery from any cycling effort (irrespective of intensity) is a wholly aerobic process, and the better your aerobic condition, the more likely you'll be able to repeat such efforts with greater frequency, intensity and duration. So that means good dollops of quality aerobic development work. That's best done on the bike too (weight work won't help with this).

The other factor of course is to understand your own capabilities, and if you are not blessed with much in the way of fast twitch fibre, then nothing you do will add 500W to your sprint/top end power, so focus on other means to improve race outcomes (e.g. sprint skills, positioning, forming breaks to reduce the numbers at end of race etc). Working on sprint is always a good thing, as while you may not be in the mix if it's a bunch, it's when you're in a group of 3-5 riders that the odds tip more in your favour. Just need to be the best sprinter of those left at end of the race, not of the whole race.

When you are near to fully tapping out sprint development on the bike (as a roadie that is), then you might consider some gym work, although very few people truly tap out their sprint / anaerobic work on the bike. If you are a track sprinter, then that process is likely to start fairly early, since most of the training you do will be track sprint oriented already, with a bit of aerobic conditioning to keep the body fat levels down and help recovery abilities.

shinsplint

Thanks a lot Alex.

I did actually start increasing my sprint sessions a few weeks ago, and am already seeing big improvements i.e. holding full power for longer, accelerating from bigger gears etc, so I totally agree in that intense on-bike sessions should be priority.

I'll stick with these sessions even through winter, its just I was thinking about adding 1 or 2 weights sessions a week. However it sounds like i'll be better off focussing on my aerobic endurance sessions like I normally do rather than stressing my legs out with weights.

Again, thanks for all your help

racingcondor

Alex knows a hell of a lot more about training than I do so I'll leave him to offer the main advice. Couple of things I did think of though -

- What level are you racing at? If you're a 4th Cat you should be able to win races despite your bodys limitations if you train well. Your body won't be the limiting factor at that level (time on bike and/or quality of training might well be though). You will still struggle to train yourself to do things you're not good at though (more time required to get results).
- I'd do some work on pedalling form as well as big ring work. If you can apply what power you have well (spin effectively) you won't need to build huge muscles to accellerate well.
- I enjoyed Tabata intervals. If you hate the turbo as much as I do then they are a useful way to do something focussed on the turbo which won't end in you procrastinating (like me and 2x20's on the turbo. Not going to happen).

shinsplint

Cheers for that.

Just got my first license (cat 4) a few weeks ago and have my third race on Saturday.

Bit of background might help - started cycling about 3 years ago, my main focus up until recently was hilly sportive riding, so i've got plenty of long base miles in my legs. More recently I deciided to have a go at the shorter, more intense stuff and joined a local race team. The regular training rides are intense, averaging up to 23 mph over an hour course. I get dropped sometimes but then so do others.

I have been working on my pedalling form and find im using my calves more on the up-stroke and spinning a bit smoother. Just feels like im recruiting more legs muscles as a result of the harder group rides. i.e using the full leg rather than just pushing down with my quads. Some people call this bad form (pulling up with calves), but it feels right for me.

Turbo... I've had some pretty mind-numbing experiences. A couple of years ago on a few occasions I spent over 3 hours just spinning away in zone 2/3. I did question whether it was worth it, and how much aerobic fitness I did or didnt gain from it. Since decided i'll use it for shorter sessions only, and as a last resort. I have a winter bike now with full mudguards so i'll be out on the road in all but the worst weather.

There's only a few races left for the season, and at the moment i'm just getting a feel of it. I'm probably just thinking ahead to the winter training period.

Any other thoughts or help greatly appreciated.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Consider what keeps you motivated to train as well (everyone is different). If a little gym helps you (mentally) do more work on the bike, and not less, then it's a good thing. If lots of turbo doesn't appeal, then look for ways to make them effective (e.g. intervals and challenges) as well as setting up other motivational aids (pumping music, video of racing, pictures of wild chasing animals behind you etc). Set up a turbo with a mate and do a session together. That can be very effective.