Is Strava nonsense?

Bordersroadie

The 32 mile loop that I mentioned has plenty of elevation gain/loss (100ft per mile) and as I do it regularly I can see variations/trends in the Strava* data. Long story short, my Edge 500 (which has a barometric pressure reader I think, as well as GPS) gives a range of start and finish elevations for this route and in dozens of rides has probably not ever recorded elevation gain/loss the same. I'm guessing this is due to changes in atmospheric pressure day to day or even hour to hour in some cases.

* it also varies similarly in Garmin's offline Training Centre but shows different figures to Strava, so Strava seems to re-interpret the data in some way.

springtide9

binsted wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

Strava by default uses the data from a GPS barometer if available, as it's usually the most accurate. Barometer's work by air pressure, and air pressure is dependant on weather. GPS height data is usually rubbish.
The data within a segment will be the data from the rider who originally created it. You can 'flag' the segment if you believe the data is inaccurate. So to repeat, with height data, you are really reliant on the quality of the data available and/or created from the ride.

.

The overall height difference between start and finish of the sector should be the same whatever the barometric pressure.

Arh, nope. If the weather is changing, so is the atmospheric pressure changing.

To quote from: https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/2096 ... r-activity
Barometric altimeters determine altitude by measuring atmospheric pressure. Measurements can be affected by changes in the weather or the sensor holes getting blocked by water or other debris. Device manufacturers may provide basic calibration procedures. For example, Garmin devices with barometric altimeters allow a certain number of manual elevation points to be set; starting an activity near an elevation point causes the device to use the known elevation as the starting point. Consult the manual for your device to learn about calibration procedures.

binsted

springtide9 wrote:

binsted wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

Strava by default uses the data from a GPS barometer if available, as it's usually the most accurate. Barometer's work by air pressure, and air pressure is dependant on weather. GPS height data is usually rubbish.
The data within a segment will be the data from the rider who originally created it. You can 'flag' the segment if you believe the data is inaccurate. So to repeat, with height data, you are really reliant on the quality of the data available and/or created from the ride.

.

The overall height difference between start and finish of the sector should be the same whatever the barometric pressure.

Arh, nope. If the weather is changing, so is the atmospheric pressure changing.

Read the reply again

Correct that atmospheric pressure is constantly changing but it will not affect the overall height difference between start and finish it will just mean your GPS will show a different (altitude) figure as a starting point, hence differing opinions as the altitude of rides depending on the type of GPS used.

springtide9

binsted wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

binsted wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

Strava by default uses the data from a GPS barometer if available, as it's usually the most accurate. Barometer's work by air pressure, and air pressure is dependant on weather. GPS height data is usually rubbish.
The data within a segment will be the data from the rider who originally created it. You can 'flag' the segment if you believe the data is inaccurate. So to repeat, with height data, you are really reliant on the quality of the data available and/or created from the ride.

.

The overall height difference between start and finish of the sector should be the same whatever the barometric pressure.

Arh, nope. If the weather is changing, so is the atmospheric pressure changing.

Read the reply again

Correct that atmospheric pressure is constantly changing but it will not affect the overall height difference between start and finish it will just mean your GPS will show a different (altitude) figure as a starting point, hence differing opinions as the altitude of rides depending on the type of GPS used.

As I quoted from the 'Strava FAQ"
Barometric altimeters determine altitude by measuring atmospheric pressure. Measurements can be affected by changes in the weather or the sensor holes getting blocked by water or other debris.

e.g. I leave my house and my Garmin states I am currently at 200 ft. By the time I get to the end of my flat road the weather had changed and my Garmin now states I'm at 400 ft. So the difference between my house and the end of my road is 200ft climbing, but actually the altitude difference is actually 0 ft.

If the weather hadn't changed (or more like the pressure hadn't changed) it doesn't matter what the starting height value is as the other readings will all be relative to this one. But when you get all three seasons in a day, it really does give some odd values. But I would say the worst is in heavy rain if the hole gets blocked with water.

SHADOWMATE

My view is.... Strava is good. I like it. lol.
It motivates me and i can see lots of lovely statistics, even though yes apparently altitudes and calculated power can be a bit squiffy. At the end of the day its there and i use it always with pleasure. I actually pay for it too.

negativelycra

Simon Masterson wrote:

I think at it's worst, it's a typical internet dick measuring contest. Some of the arguments I see around here are truly pathetic, and 'Strava evidence or it didn't happen' is laughable.

However, whatever it is that causes the inaccuracies (be it hardware, software or between keyboard and chair), the fact is that it still isn't a fair or regulated contest, so I find it hard to take seriously the 'achievements' that some people flaunt so proudly. If some people's GPS units are producing 'accurate' data and some others 'inaccurate', that only makes it worse.

But more to the point, it's a bad influence. Public roads are public unless closed for your purposes, and should be used as such. Particularly on steep, winding hills, I don't want to share the road with anyone who is more interested in beating strangers on the internet that may or may not be in cars or on motorcycles, than the road.

Bit extreme? To me, Strava is a decent measuring stick for self improvement. It's a reason to not let the hill win. It's motivational because if I don't go out tomorrow night, it'll impact my weekly averages. You can't "forget" that you had time off, it's right there in pixels.

Of course, I always want to improve on my segments. I also get a slight kick out of coulouring in a new loop on strava multiple ride mapper. Have I ever put myself in danger to nail a segment? Course not. Have I ever even considered using it as an extension of any penis size angsiety I may / may not posess on the internet? Course not.

Arseholes on the internet will always be just that. Strava doesn't change anything!

BlakeysFC

Strava, in my opinion, is a truly amazing App/website

BillyMansell

Negativelycra wrote:

Bit extreme? To me, Strava is a decent measuring stick for self improvement. It's a reason to not let the hill win. It's motivational because if I don't go out tomorrow night, it'll impact my weekly averages. You can't "forget" that you had time off, it's right there in pixels.

If you want to improve yourself then measure your achievements against your past performances not some random person on a random day in different conditions, which by definition are not like for like measures. If you really want to improve your performance then measure yourself against others by racing, TTing or go on a hard club run.

Of course, I always want to improve on my segments. I also get a slight kick out of coulouring in a new loop on strava multiple ride mapper.

If you like colouring in why not just buy a box of crayons and a colouring book? Or to be more scientific, use your crayons to create bar charts on graph paper to show your improvements.

DevonClimber

BillyMansell wrote:

Negativelycra wrote:

Bit extreme? To me, Strava is a decent measuring stick for self improvement. It's a reason to not let the hill win. It's motivational because if I don't go out tomorrow night, it'll impact my weekly averages. You can't "forget" that you had time off, it's right there in pixels.

If you want to improve yourself then measure your achievements against your past performances not some random person on a random day in different conditions, which by definition are not like for like measures. If you really want to improve your performance then measure yourself against others by racing, TTing or go on a hard club run.

Of course, I always want to improve on my segments. I also get a slight kick out of coulouring in a new loop on strava multiple ride mapper.

If you like colouring in why not just buy a box of crayons and a colouring book? Or to be more scientific, use your crayons to create bar charts on graph paper to show your improvements.

Nah, keep using Strava.

BillyMansell

DevonClimber wrote:

BillyMansell wrote:

Negativelycra wrote:

Bit extreme? To me, Strava is a decent measuring stick for self improvement. It's a reason to not let the hill win. It's motivational because if I don't go out tomorrow night, it'll impact my weekly averages. You can't "forget" that you had time off, it's right there in pixels.

If you want to improve yourself then measure your achievements against your past performances not some random person on a random day in different conditions, which by definition are not like for like measures. If you really want to improve your performance then measure yourself against others by racing, TTing or go on a hard club run.

Of course, I always want to improve on my segments. I also get a slight kick out of coulouring in a new loop on strava multiple ride mapper.

If you like colouring in why not just buy a box of crayons and a colouring book? Or to be more scientific, use your crayons to create bar charts on graph paper to show your improvements.

Nah, keep using Strava.

Would that be because of your fear of actually riding against others on equal terms or your lack of opposable thumbs to be able to hold crayons? :P

DavidJB

For me Strava is an unneeded distraction to my training plan. I train with win races not segments. For that reason I closed my account after 2 weeks use. I hope my competitors keep using it though and keep messing up their training

negativelycra

Billy, from the aggression in your post, i've decided you don't have sex much. Can i suggest a wank rather than kicking off on an internet forum?

Ps - sote the "self" in self improvement. In just 2 clicks, you can see every ride you've done on any given segment.

BillyMansell

Negativelycra wrote:

Billy, from the aggression in your post, i've decided you don't have sex much. Can i suggest a rub rather than kicking off on an internet forum?

Ps - sote the "self" in self improvement. In just 2 clicks, you can see every ride you've done on any given segment.

Oh dear. Your inability to judge the difference between aggression and humour/constructive criticism is severely lacking, and personal attacks in an effort to make yourself feel superior speaks volumes. Would getting out and riding with others possibly help your communication and social skills?

If you were really interested in self improvement there are plenty of better alternatives to Strava that allow you to focus on the "self" for improvement so no need to back-pedal on your reasoning (that's a pun for the hard of thinking).

Mark Elvin

Raffles wrote:

ShutUpLegs wrote:

Can we now replace 'I blame Wiggle' with 'I blame Strava' :?:

if you cant say something constructive, please dont post, as your immature trolling in every thread you post in is becoming a serious nuisance.

Blimey, somebody needs to leave their horse by the door before they come in next time!!!!

DevonClimber

BillyMansell wrote:

DevonClimber wrote:

BillyMansell wrote:

Negativelycra wrote:

Bit extreme? To me, Strava is a decent measuring stick for self improvement. It's a reason to not let the hill win. It's motivational because if I don't go out tomorrow night, it'll impact my weekly averages. You can't "forget" that you had time off, it's right there in pixels.

If you want to improve yourself then measure your achievements against your past performances not some random person on a random day in different conditions, which by definition are not like for like measures. If you really want to improve your performance then measure yourself against others by racing, TTing or go on a hard club run.

Of course, I always want to improve on my segments. I also get a slight kick out of coulouring in a new loop on strava multiple ride mapper.

If you like colouring in why not just buy a box of crayons and a colouring book? Or to be more scientific, use your crayons to create bar charts on graph paper to show your improvements.

Nah, keep using Strava.

Would that be because of your fear of actually riding against others on equal terms or your lack of opposable thumbs to be able to hold crayons? :P

No, it is because I am antisocial. Thumbs are are fine and opposable, my middle finger also works and extends

kirkee

nonsense absolutely, because i cant bring myself to buy an expensive gps device and my phones a 9.99 job from tesco

feelgoodlost

I think it's great if you just want to know how far you've went, how long it took you etc. and also for self improvement. I like to try and beat previous times on certain sections I've done. Not particularly because I want to beat everyone else who's done the same segment (although it is a nice surprise when you see where you are in the tables) but just so I can see if I'm making any noticeable improvement. As long as you don't take the ammount of calories burned seriously then you'll be alright...

I like the social aspect of it too - it's good to see your mates putting in the miles. It's good for spurring eachother on and for a little friendly competition.

It's good at what it does but don't expect it to be amazing. It's a free app for a phone. If you want near perfect/accurate data then buy a Garmin.

Silverbull

Bordersroadie wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

I think at it's worst, it's a typical internet dick measuring contest.

blah blah blah. . . .

blah. . . .

For goodness sake, lighten up - I don't think anyone sensible thinks Strava is some kind of race - its a bit of fun and adds a bit of motivation to a ride.
I'm not sure how strong a rider you are, but you must be pretty fast if you consider the majority of the segments unsafe. Most segments are uphill and most have a 60mph speed limit.

I agree. Strava is great fun and since discovering it my mostly solo training has an added dimension. Me and my Edge 500 look forward to rides and the motivational thing is real - I'll gladly go out on days that otherwise I may not bother, because (a) I want to get that KOM or move up from 4th place or whatever and (b) I don't want my buddies to see that I'm slacking.

My commute has been lengthened to take in a couple of nearby segments and over the last year my fitness level has improved moreso than it would have done had I not been "Strava-powered", without a doubt.

Sure, it's not exactly science and my best KOM, a 3 mile local hill, has been retained for ages only because I did it on a rare strong north easterly wind, not because I'm the strongest local guy, but that's part of the fun of it. Who cares about the inaccuracies if it gets people out on their bikes and having a bit of good-spirited competition.

The danger element doesn't apply in the Scottish Borders as we have no traffic up here, hee hee!

+1

This is exactly as I feel. Strava has done the world of good to improve my riding /fitness. It motivates me to get out and speed up!

I've never paid any attention to the gradient /altitude data as otherwise just isn't as important to me plus not its primary function.

I really can't understand the anti Strava sentiment... Some people will always have beef with something I suppose!

mkviken

only thing with strava is the stats it gives are totally different to garmin connect

ive got my gps set for my height, weight, age and resting HR so get a more accurate calorie count compared to what strava give.

for a general comparison to other riders its very good though and seems like a great training tool for motivation

NewTTer

Of course its nonsense, BUT it is bloody good harmless fun, so what does it matter

Sprool

Absolutely.
I like it best for adding interest when you've only got time for a 10 mile evening or early morning run by setting you a time to beat. I also like to see how crap my map reading memory is when I'm out for longer runs in the countryside by comparing my actual route to the one I was meaning to take.
It is pretty useless for the evening training sessions on the rollers though.

AchillesLeftKnee

Oh, total nonsense, and utterly flawed in many respects. Doesn't stop it being thoroughly entertaining though.

I just wish they'd either take the power calculation off, as the way they've implemented that truely is the biggest pile of underpants in history. With a bit of data smoothing, that could have actually been a reasonable stab at power whilst climbing, but their literal approach to the data just ends up producing the most gargantuan sweaty bolleaux. It also turns out surreal results if I use the mountain bike which, if they are to be believed, enhances my power output in such a manner that should it's mystical powers become known, I'll be able to set it up as a shrine to which professional cyclists can make pilgrimage in order to partake of its PED-eclypsing 30% power enchancement.

teisetrotter

Mr Dog wrote:

Strava is great fun. It motivates me to get out and ride. I would imagine its only as good as the data provided by your gps system. Lets go paint the world orange!

Sighhhhh I find it the reverse. Are there really that many people so much better than I am!

Colinio

I wouldn't get too disheartened if you feel your times are too off the pace.

My own view is that the majority of people who regularly use strava are probably faster than your average Joe anyway.

So it is hard to comapre like with like.

I do find it motivational on the whole. Most of the big hard hills near me probably contain a leaderboard of skinny whippet like wunderkids, but still I am able to beat my own times and hopefully claw my way up to something respectable.

Mikey23

There are rumours going around that strava is heavily involved in doping... Just saying y'no ...

Mark Elvin

Teisetrotter wrote:

Mr Dog wrote:

Strava is great fun. It motivates me to get out and ride. I would imagine its only as good as the data provided by your gps system. Lets go paint the world orange!

Sighhhhh I find it the reverse. Are there really that many people so much better than I am!

Does that not spur you on to be better?

Mark Elvin

I'm finding being able to monitor my increase (or otherwise) in fitness a real boost, making me want to improve more.

I've just started popping into the top 10 on a few of my regular segments, whislt regularly popping in PR's and thus feeling that the hard work I've been putting in by going to the gym at least three times a week, not eating shite non stop & cycling to work rather than let the train take the strain is actuallt beginnig to pay dividends.

thiscocks

BuckMulligan wrote:

Strava is a pack of sh!te.

...He still cant get any KOMs...

Simmo72

If you don't like it, don't use it. I take it as a light hearted motivator. I don’t ride with a fist sized computer on my stem, I just use the android app (as I’m carrying a phone anyway). I don’t really care how I compare to other people as I know I’m an aging git but it is nice to see you track your own good days and bad days and it does provide a bit of motivation on a hill where you might just otherwise stick it in the granny gear.

philbar72

I enjoy using Strava. Good for motivation when the weather is poor. i go through where i'm strong and weak on the various routes i take and it has helped me become a slightly better rider (in terms of pacing myself, as i used to just burn myself out before, going flat out when i didn't need to!).