170mm stem

13

Comments

  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    But is this necessary on a Spesh Tarmac SL4? Are they heavy?
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    Lighter I think - 875gr for the frame. But is the accoutrements that will get the weight up.
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    If you look at it from another angle maybe, just maybe all this "bike fit" stuff that people pay good money for is just cycling's version of golf stuff that promises to take 10 strokes off your game. Doesn't really work but bunches of people want to believe in it and are willing to try and "buy" better performance. Lots of people spending lots of money on fitting their bike and very few of them are going faster or climbing better. :?

    But how much faster would he be if he was on the right sized bike? :wink:

    If he could be faster on the right sized bike he would be riding the right sized bike. :wink:

    Maybe this all boils down to what is the "right sized bike" and who or what tells you this?
    A quick check of the web would probably reveal a whole bunch of "fit specialists", each claiming to have "the correct method". How does one choose or even know if any of them are any good or even if any of them work at all. Sort of like buying the golf club that is claimed to take strokes off your game yet people that buy them are still hooking and slicing all over the place.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    mroli wrote:
    Lighter I think - 875gr for the frame. But is the accoutrements that will get the weight up.

    Accoutrements? Never heard it refered that way before! I'll go to the bike shop tomorrow and see if they have any. :wink:
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    dennisn wrote:
    Maybe this all boils down to what is the "right sized bike" and who or what tells you this?

    Well, that's it really. Just because a pro is sat on a bike a particular way, doesn't mean he's right.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    mroli wrote:
    For my style of riding (occasional crit racing, long rides, club rides etc), mechanical does me fine and I can fix pretty much any problem that I have with the bike (have a recabling job to do today). For what you do (high end competition, but without constant mechanic support) - I can imagine the performance advantages you detail may help. For the pros (constant mechanical support), I reckon there is probably negligible difference?

    I don't believe that there are as many "problems" as some people want to think. If you look at both Campy and Shimano systems closely I think you'll see a fairly rudimentary electrical system as compared to motorcycles, autos, computers.
    Today's modern cars and motorcycles have electrical systems on them that contain miles and miles of wire, connected to bunches of switches, small motors, monitoring devices, computer chips, most of which are exposed to the elements(under the hood) and yet these cars and bikes run for 100,000 miles and don't have tons of widespread problems. Sure they have problems but what would you rather drive / ride across the U.S.? A 1915 car or motorcycle or a 2012 model of either? And which ones would you have the most faith in that you would make it from ocean to ocean?
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Maybe this all boils down to what is the "right sized bike" and who or what tells you this?

    Well, that's it really. Just because a pro is sat on a bike a particular way, doesn't mean he's right.

    +1
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Accoutrements? Never heard it refered that way before! I'll go to the bike shop tomorrow and see if they have any. :wink:
    Well, you know, if people will say "bonifications"!
    dennisn wrote:
    Today's modern cars and motorcycles have electrical systems on them that contain miles and miles of wire, connected to bunches of switches, small motors, monitoring devices, computer chips, most of which are exposed to the elements(under the hood) and yet these cars and bikes run for 100,000 miles and don't have tons of widespread problems. Sure they have problems but what would you rather drive / ride across the U.S.? A 1915 car or motorcycle or a 2012 model of either? And which ones would you have the most faith in that you would make it from ocean to ocean?
    You are right of course and a lot of my irrational dislike comes from the fact that I am mechanically incompetent, but proud that I have taught myself to understand and work out how bikes work (and I like the "simplicity" of them). Also - you don't have to go back to 1915 for a car that was mechanically sound, reliable and could be fixed "on the road" by the Automobile Association (or by my dad who "understood" cars). Now if a car goes wrong, chances are it is something to do with electronics/computers and these cannot be fixed by the side of the road.

    Not sure what all this has to do with a 170mm stem though!
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    mroli wrote:
    Well, you know, if people will say "bonifications"!

    I still find it funny that people refer to bidons, casquettes, palmares and parcours! :shock:
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    mroli wrote:
    Not sure what all this has to do with a 170mm stem though!

    Well, I guess the 170mm stem has run it's course and we are now in another conversation. I mean really, what can you say about a 170 stem except holy sh*t or what the f*ck. We mere mortals can't buy one or even have use for one.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    I had SRAM on all my bikes before Di2. It never worked right. No mater who set it up. It's easy to single shift one way, but hard to single shift the other. Certainly at speed when you don't have time to be gentle with it.

    At the end of the day - people will ride what they want to ride. I don't see there being a 'performance' boost with electronic shifting. I just like the fact that it works well and it works for me. I didn't buy it so I could have faster shifting. ALthough the auto trim feature IS nice.

    (And I have had a battery go dead(ish) on me, so it DOES happen. But that was before I A. figured out that they don't last 6 months between charges on a road bike (they do on a TT bike) and B. to check the charge (press the shift button and look at the indicator light) every so often to see if it needs charging.

    I believe ONLY Wiggins is going to use mechanical shifting for the Giro, not the whole team. And he has used mechanical shifting on his TT bike for ages as it allows him some extra reach (it's to do with the maximum length of extensions and where they measure the distance from on mechanical vs electronic shifters).
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    Pokerface wrote:
    I had SRAM on all my bikes before Di2. It never worked right. No mater who set it up. It's easy to single shift one way, but hard to single shift the other. Certainly at speed when you don't have time to be gentle with it.

    At the end of the day - people will ride what they want to ride. I don't see there being a 'performance' boost with electronic shifting. I just like the fact that it works well and it works for me. I didn't buy it so I could have faster shifting. ALthough the auto trim feature IS nice.

    (And I have had a battery go dead(ish) on me, so it DOES happen. But that was before I A. figured out that they don't last 6 months between charges on a road bike (they do on a TT bike) and B. to check the charge (press the shift button and look at the indicator light) every so often to see if it needs charging.

    I believe ONLY Wiggins is going to use mechanical shifting for the Giro, not the whole team. And he has used mechanical shifting on his TT bike for ages as it allows him some extra reach (it's to do with the maximum length of extensions and where they measure the distance from on mechanical vs electronic shifters).

    sounds like someone who might benefit from a 170mm stem...
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Yellow Peril wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    I had SRAM on all my bikes before Di2. It never worked right. No mater who set it up. It's easy to single shift one way, but hard to single shift the other. Certainly at speed when you don't have time to be gentle with it.

    At the end of the day - people will ride what they want to ride. I don't see there being a 'performance' boost with electronic shifting. I just like the fact that it works well and it works for me. I didn't buy it so I could have faster shifting. ALthough the auto trim feature IS nice.

    (And I have had a battery go dead(ish) on me, so it DOES happen. But that was before I A. figured out that they don't last 6 months between charges on a road bike (they do on a TT bike) and B. to check the charge (press the shift button and look at the indicator light) every so often to see if it needs charging.

    I believe ONLY Wiggins is going to use mechanical shifting for the Giro, not the whole team. And he has used mechanical shifting on his TT bike for ages as it allows him some extra reach (it's to do with the maximum length of extensions and where they measure the distance from on mechanical vs electronic shifters).

    sounds like someone who might benefit from a 170mm stem...

    Longer stem wouldn't make a difference. Maximum reach is set at 80cm from centre of BB to tip of electronic shifters on TT bike (or centre point of the bolt that hold mechanical shifters onto extensions. Thus, mechanical allows for longer reach.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    dennisn wrote:
    We mere mortals can't buy one or even have use for one.

    I'm sure a frame builder could make one for you if you REALLY wanted one. :D
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    UCI rules state that the handlebars must sit at least 5cm behind the centre of the front wheel hub (on a road bike).

    I'm surprised that this monster stem doesn't put the bars in a position that falls afoul of that rule. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time the UCI failed to enforce one of it's own rules!
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Quick follow up...

    Just had dinner with Dan Martin (Garmin) and asked him about Di2. Said he LOVES it. Said the team were on Sram a year or two ago and it was horrible in comparison. So happy to be using Di2. Just one person's opinion... but there you go!
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    All pros love the kit they currently ride. I thought everyone knew that?

    And what's with the occasional WORDS in capitals? Has Dennisn hacked YOUR accout?
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    All pros love the kit they currently ride. I thought everyone knew that?

    +1 on that. Heh heh

    I'm the same way. After all who can admit that they spent 2000 dollars on new components but doesn't like them.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    All pros love the kit they currently ride. I thought everyone knew that?

    And what's with the occasional WORDS in capitals? Has Dennisn hacked YOUR accout?


    I should learn how to use italics for emphasis!

    Yes - I agree that most Pros probably DO love their current kit (as that's the standard answer). However, this was a dinner with just me and his parents and not a public affair where his answers would be on the record. He was forthcoming about a lot of stuff and not all of it was glowing (including other bits of kit from sponsors)! Some really insightful stuff about training, recovery, nutrition, teammates, and so on!

    And Dennis - I know lots of people that will readily admit that they don't love kit they spent thousands on. Plus it doesn't apply to a Pro that gets it for free!
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    That's interesting though - there is meant to be one groupset that everyone hates - is it supposed to be Sram? I mean, I love it (and much more than the Shimano kit I've ridden), but I know nothing. I certainly haven't got a rainbow jersey (that I've earnt) or a LBL victory on my palmares....

    Did you ask him what size stem he used Colin?!
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    mroli wrote:
    That's interesting though - there is meant to be one groupset that everyone hates - is it supposed to be Sram? I mean, I love it (and much more than the Shimano kit I've ridden), but I know nothing. I certainly haven't got a rainbow jersey (that I've earnt) or a LBL victory on my palmares....

    Did you ask him what size stem he used Colin?!

    I hate Campag. There. I said it.

    I'll look at his stem tomoro when we're out riding!


    (And my choice of kit has nothing to do with my level of riding - I would chose the same stuff, assuming I could afford it, even if I was just a leisure cyclist. Dont assume that my choices are based on winning World Championships, etc.)

    Your choice in kit is no less relevant than mine. And mine no more than anyone else's!
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    mroli wrote:
    Did you ask him what size stem he used Colin?!

    130cm, -17° angle
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    mroli wrote:
    That's interesting though - there is meant to be one groupset that everyone hates - is it supposed to be Sram? I mean, I love it (and much more than the Shimano kit I've ridden), but I know nothing. I certainly haven't got a rainbow jersey (that I've earnt) or a LBL victory on my palmares....

    Did you ask him what size stem he used Colin?!

    I don't believe there is one groupset that all pros hate. They aren't all the same. Some don't really have any idea what kit they ride, they just get on a bike and ride. Whereas others will know every little detail. I think the only thing they would all agree on is having reliable kit. That is probably the most important thing.

    And to some extent, I would put more weight to your view on kit as your not paid to ride it! Unless of course you are a pro? :D
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Pokerface wrote:
    mroli wrote:
    Did you ask him what size stem he used Colin?!

    130cm, -17° angle

    I thought this was meant as a joke? Mind you, does seem a bit big for a rider of his size.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    mroli wrote:
    That's interesting though - there is meant to be one groupset that everyone hates - is it supposed to be Sram? I mean, I love it (and much more than the Shimano kit I've ridden), but I know nothing.

    I don't follow how one top line groupset can be all that different from another to generate a love hate thing.
    All that's happening, on all 3, is you're pushing a lever a half an inch or so.
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    dennisn wrote:
    mroli wrote:
    That's interesting though - there is meant to be one groupset that everyone hates - is it supposed to be Sram? I mean, I love it (and much more than the Shimano kit I've ridden), but I know nothing.

    I don't follow how one top line groupset can be all that different from another to generate a love hate thing.
    All that's happening, on all 3, is you're pushing a lever a half an inch or so.

    I just assumed that it was the only set in the peloton that is not electronic & therefore 'old' hence the bashing, or possibly as the riders who are given SRAM seem to have to do plenty of sponsor work for them bit like F1 with Mclaren.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    130cm, -17° angle
    I thought this was meant as a joke? Mind you, does seem a bit big for a rider of his size.
    Which I think just illustrates that what a "bike fitter" sets you out on is totally divorced from what the pros ride on...

    In the Giro - 2 high profile mechanicals. Steegmans on Sram and Pate on Di2 stuck in small ring... The mechanical v electronic debate remains unresolved!
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Pokerface wrote:
    One can only assume that he choses to ride a frame 1-2 sizes too small for him (in order to save weight?) and thus needs a super-long stem.

    A rider of normal proportions should never be on a stem that long. If you're over 6 and half feet tall or have stupidly-long torso - then maybe but otherwise, no.

    I thought it was fairly common on Pro Bikes. They use a smaller frame for stiffness, lightness (?tradition) but mostly so they can get good and low on them.

    Colin being an obvious exception, but most of us couldnt handle a Pro bike position for more than a few minutes...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    mroli wrote:
    In the Giro - 2 high profile mechanicals. Steegmans on Sram and Pate on Di2 stuck in small ring... The mechanical v electronic debate remains unresolved!

    I'm thinking that for you it may remain unresolved, but for many others, no it's cut and dried. Electronic shifting is the clear winner and it will only get better as time passes.
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    @dennisn - yep, sure that I'm just being a luddite and that electronic shifting will carry on improving, but I think we can all agree that there is no ideal solution as yet. I mean, there are still people who insist that fixed gear is the only way to ride, that there's nothing wrong with downtube shifters, or unindexed levers and that nothing matches the reliability of campag in the 80s... Electronic has been and gone before too.

    For them, it is just as cut n dried as the other way. :D
    http://www.georgesfoundation.org
    http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
    http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/

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