Have i been doing it wrong??

julesreece17

Fitted a new pair of egg beater pedals today. First time i have ever used any form of clipped in pedal.

I noticed the minute i picked up my new MTB shoes that the space for the cleat is very forward. I fitted the cleat, and slid it back as far as i could, and had a go.

I was worried about being clipped in, and not being able to get out. Well that wasnt a worry, as it turned out. Turns out its harder to get in than it is to get out!

Anyways, once i worked out getting clipped in, i noticed that the pedals is very forward. It seems that im pedalling with the ball of my feet, rather than the arch of my foot, where i normally pedal from.

This then meant that my thigh was coming up an extra inch or so, and so i had to increase the hight of my saddle to compensate.

All very wierd, but worth havinga go at it.

Just got me thinking, have i been pedalling in the wrong position all of my life??

nicklouse

Afraid to say yes you have.

Ball of the foot should be directly over the axel.

julesreece17

mmm....guess its omething im going to have to get used to then.

Regards the pedals though, was strangely good being clipped in, helped me to pedal in circles, rather than just up and down. If you know what i mean lol

Anonymous

Julesreece17 wrote:

Just got me thinking, have i been pedalling in the wrong position all of my life??

Some would say yes (and this includes the majority of cut'n'paste "expert" advice based mainly on road cycling), some would say no (and that includes Jedi). Controversial I know

That's not to say that either is wrong, I can't say that, but there's more benefit to certain styles of riding to the latter than many think.

YeehaaMcgee

Most efficient pedalling is done with the ball of your foot over the axle, since you can use your calf muscles as well.
However, you can gain more control of the bike (using flat pedals) with your feet roughly central on the pedals.
When using flat pedals, it's common for the feet to move around into a suitable position to give efficient pedalling, or lower the rider weight, etc etc.

nicklouse

deadkenny wrote:

Julesreece17 wrote:

Just got me thinking, have i been pedalling in the wrong position all of my life??

Some would say yes (and this includes the majority of cut'n'paste "expert" advice based mainly on road cycling), some would say no (and that includes Jedi). Controversial I know

That's not to say that either is wrong, I can't say that, but there's more benefit to certain styles of riding to the latter than many think.

I would rather supprised if Jedi recomended the arch of the foot.

And as spd are being used then the whole idea is for optimum use.

Though indo know a guy with a second set of cleats mounted on the arch of his shoe for use on his road bike due to a medical condition.

warpcow

I'm pretty sure (only based on what he's written in various forums) that Jedi recommends the pedal-axle being just behind the ball of the foot, which is a bit different.

Anonymous

Front of the arch, behind the ball of the foot. With a big platform that's mid shoe for me, fractionally towards the front, but not the ball of the foot. The key is where the pivot point is and what benefit that may or may not give, especially when dropping the heel.

YeehaaMcgee

You can actually drop your heels further with the axle under the ball of your foot.
If he said "front of the arch, behind the ball.of the foot", then pedal platform size makes no difference. A bigger platform doesn't change axle position.

njee20

Some people, notably Joe Friel, do advocate midfoot cleat placement, it's all a bit weird.

Read me

Anonymous

It's not about how far you can drop the heel, though pivoting on the ball dropping the heel that far, think about the tension you get on the calf by comparison.

It's, as I understand it from what he was telling me, as you say about control on the bike and a more natural and stable pivot point.

The platform size I was just referring to what I have, but the key is a solid platform and solid shoe. Small uneven pedals and soft trainers and you're going to find your feet hurt a lot pedalling on the arch, which is probably where the original advice to avoid it came from.

YeehaaMcgee

DK, here's a heads up. I'm going to try and ignore anything you write from now on, ok? I mean, life's just too short. So, if you ever wonder "why isn't he answering?" - it's because I care so little about what you say, by now, that I don't think it's even worth the bother to point you in the right direction.

YeehaaMcgee

njee20 wrote:

Some people, notably Joe Friel, do advocate midfoot cleat placement, it's all a bit weird.

Read me

From a cursory examination of his thinking, I have to think, why did he stop at the mid-foot position, when it sounds like his theory would be applied best with the cleat at the heel?

nicklouse

njee20 wrote:

Some people, notably Joe Friel, do advocate midfoot cleat placement, it's all a bit weird.

Read me

hardly MIDFOOT! for me about 10mm difference.

here is a Midfoot position



and that is due to a medical reason.

YeehaaMcgee

What medical condition is it, Nick, and how does the mid-foot position help it?

Anonymous

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

DK, here's a heads up. I'm going to try and ignore anything you write from now on, ok? I mean, life's just too short. So, if you ever wonder "why isn't he answering?" - it's because I care so little about what you say, by now, that I don't think it's even worth the bother to point you in the right direction.

Don't know WTF your problem is. I wasn't arguing with you, I was agreeing FFS!

You just seem to have latched onto me as someone to argue with everything I say now

This was a simple civil thread discussing foot pedal position and you have to be a dick. FFS.

Edit: Actually screw it, I'm fed up with all this. How do I delete my account?

nicklouse

somthing to do with shorter bits in the leg. not sure if is it ligament or mussel or even if there are missing bits BUT he only reverts to that position when tired. starts off normal. those shoes were done to test the idea before drilling into some new sidis.

YeehaaMcgee

nicklouse wrote:

somthing to do with shorter bits in the leg. not sure if is it ligament or mussel or even if there are missing bits BUT he only reverts to that position when tired. starts off normal. those shoes were done to test the idea before drilling into some new sidis.

Oh right. Is that the result of an accident, or something he was born with?
My sister dated a guy who was born with very short legs (thalidomide child) several years ago. I vaguely recall that he could just about pedal a bike with his prosthesis, but not very far.
Meanwhile, one of my mates has a legs that is a fair bit shorter than the other, after a motorcycle racing accident - he occasionally struggles with a few things because of the difference in leg length, and the fact that his shorter leg now has an ankle that points downwards somewhat.

nicklouse

legs are the same length and he used to race XC internationally (well a Brit abroad) it may have been a result of a crash (bike,MC,Car) TBH i cant remember how.

lostboysaint

How on earth do you struggle to get into Eggbeaters? They are just about the easiest, most accessible pedal out there!

ilovedirt

FWIW, I run my cleats as far towards the back as I can, and that ends up just over the ball of my foot. My feet go a little further forward on the pedals (just behind the ball of my foot but nowhere near my arch) when I'm running flats, I just find it more comfortable.

Jedi

axel behind the ball of your big toe for flatties


Herts_0013 by ukbikeskills, on Flickr


Herts 0002 by ukbikeskills, on Flickr

julesreece17

lostboysaint wrote:

How on earth do you struggle to get into Eggbeaters? They are just about the easiest, most accessible pedal out there!

Dont know. Never ever used any sort of clipped in pedal before. So found it hard to judge where to put my foot to clip in to it. But i've noticed that it kinda lines up with stiching on my shoe, so that guides me at the minute.

Just getting used to them i suppose.

paul.skibum

deadkenny wrote:

It's not about how far you can drop the heel, though pivoting on the ball dropping the heel that far, think about the tension you get on the calf by comparison.

It's, as I understand it from what he was telling me, as you say about control on the bike and a more natural and stable pivot point.

The platform size I was just referring to what I have, but the key is a solid platform and solid shoe. Small uneven pedals and soft trainers and you're going to find your feet hurt a lot pedalling on the arch, which is probably where the original advice to avoid it came from.

I am not sure what Yeehaa's specific problem with you is but it maybe that the above post is incomprehensible garbage? If someone cant understand that you are agreeing with them they will assume you are arguing with them I guess.

YeehaaMcgee

It's because he repeatedly spouts incorrect information, and claims that's what he was told by someone else - when in actuality he just hasn't understood what was being told to him.
I guess he has this fixed world view, and rather than learning from others, he'll twist what they said to match his pre-existing views.
That's why I've had enough.

glentressmonster

Jesus guys! This poor guy has come on here to ask a straightforward question and it's turned into a grudge match. Take it somewhere else for the sake of the rest of us.

Anyway, Jules, here's what I think about pedal position; I swap between flat pedals and SPDs periodically so have plenty of relevant experience of both...

When riding flats I ride with my feet further forward so the axle is just forward of the arch of the foot. This allows a more heel-down foot angle when seated which allows you to really push hard with your calves and thighs.

When riding SPDs the axle of the pedal is under the ball of my foot. In this position it is easier to tilt the foot forward allowing you to pull back on the pedal on the upstroke and push on the downstroke thus getting much more power on the climbs. As you pointed out, your pedal stroke is more of a circular motion in this position so you get a much more fluid powerful movement.

Those of us who have been riding SPDs for years have probably forgotten how awkward and a little frightening it was the first few times we rode clipped-in so forgive us if we are condescending. I remember how much of a dick I felt keeling over at traffic lights cos I couldn't unclip due to badly set up pedals. Egg beaters are one of the easier types to clip in and out of so they are a good choice for starting out. In the future, if you wear a softer shoe (more casual than the racier style offroad shoe) you may want to consider a larger 'caged' pedal as they offer more support for softer soled shoes.

Good luck and persevere - it's worth it in the end.

YeehaaMcgee

glentressmonster wrote:

Jesus guys! This poor guy has come on here to ask a straightforward question and it's turned into a grudge match. Take it somewhere else for the sake of the rest of us.

As it happens I can't abide people posting bullsh*t and passing it off as information. As you said, someone came here to ask for advice, he didn't want to be force fed nonsensical crap from some pillock who misinterprets everything he's been told.

lighty89

Just got some SPD's, actually HATE the feeling of not being able to unclip when needed too!
Had 1 fall lol... stopped then thought... shit im still clipped in, needeless to say I did the WTF is he falling for fall!

YeehaaMcgee

I did that the first time I rode with SPuDs. I actually fell over and slid down an embankment for about 50 feet. My father, who I was riding with at the time showed no concern about any injuries I may have sustained, he just laughed and called me a silly bastard
Needles to say, I did get the hang of them quickly enough, but realised after a few years that I didn't really get any benefit with them, and that I preferred flatties.

Anonymous

glentressmonster wrote:

Jesus guys! This poor guy has come on here to ask a straightforward question and it's turned into a grudge match. Take it somewhere else for the sake of the rest of us.

Sorry.

and sorry to the OP and anyone else.

I have no valid input obviously and can't articulate the point I really mean and just cause offence to people for some reason. Never meant to cause offence. This is my last post on these forums, and I'll concentrate on just riding.

sniper68

Deadkenny/YeehaaMcgee may I suggest the Friend/Foe option in your user control panel...or meet up,kiss and make up/kick the crap out of each other

Or just agree to disagree