A big downside to being clipped in

jimmies

.....well today when going down my road back to my house after my very first ride on my new Planet X RT57 (in the proper lane) a car that was facing the same direction as me but on the other side of the road, just sped out of their parking space and into my lane....very nearly taking me out.

I used to ride a motorcycle alot and often had cars squeezing against curbs me when in heavy town traffic and I would give the car a little kick to let them know they were about to wipe me out.......being clipped in makes it next to impossible to do this in the 1 second when these situations happen

jimmies

and when I say clipped in - I actually mean spd pedals

simon_masterson

Why can't you just use your hand, if you even need to at all?

bails87

On a motorbike you can get away from a car. In all but the heaviest traffic, on a bicycle, you can't. And drivers don't react well to you kicking their cars.

Don't do it, it's not worth it.

jimmies

When i say kick....i'm not damaging the car, just making a noise so they know i'm there.

As to using my hand.....i was busy steering out of the way of a car driver that didn't look!! And i have no problems with a confrontation with a driver who very nearly broke me and my bike

top_bhoy

If you have the time and presence to kick a car then you have the time and presence to take evasive action; I do know what you mean though. I'm not sure clipless pedals are in any way at fault for a cyclist getting cleaned out....an idiotic car driver will do so irrespective of the chosen pedal system and the cyclist will have next to no time to react.

ShutUpLegs

jesus wept

pdsalmon

Kicking cars seems a bit extreme...

I'd be non too happy if a pedestrian 'kicked' my bike if they felt I'd acted irresponsbly

StillGoing

Speaking as an ex motorcyclist, admittedly one who spent more time on the track than the road, your attitude merely demonstrates what dickheads motorcyclists are. There's a horn on your motorcycle for alerting other road users so why do you need to kick someone's car? Mindless bravado because it's what motorcyclists do.

cougie

Really a bad idea.

Motorists will react very badly to this - even if they were in the wrong.
They're very brave behind the wheel and some of them think nothing of coming after you and trying to teach you a lesson.

ShutUpLegs

jimmies wrote:

And i have no problems with a confrontation with a driver who very nearly broke me and my bike

You sound like a complete utter fuckingdick

bails87

jimmies wrote:

When i say kick....i'm not damaging the car, just making a noise so they know i'm there.

I'm sure the driver will be prefectly happy that you're kicking his penis extension then :roll:

A driver overtook me, clipped my arm, thought I'd kicked his car, so chased after me, got out of the car, knocked me to the ground and punched me in the face a few times. All very pleasant. His car wasn't damaged though, so I guess I must have imagined the assault ....

Use your voice, it's quicker and clearer than a kick.

simon_masterson

pdsalmon wrote:

Kicking cars seems a bit extreme...

I'd be non too happy if a pedestrian 'kicked' my bike if they felt I'd acted irresponsbly

This.

At least a tap on the door can be construed as a measured course of action. Unless you have no arms, it would be a reasonable assumption that a kick is aggressive.

Aside from the fact that you might motivate some idiot to come and have it out with you (or take further measures to flatten you; it does happen...), if that motorist has even the slightest mark on their car's bodywork - even if they know that you didn't cause it - and they decide to be spiteful, they could land you in trouble.

But I'm still sceptical, and stand on the side of those arguing that if you can kick, you can move out of the way. If you are a motorist (or have ever driven a car; I still don't hold a full license), you will know that the cyclist needs all the help that he or she can get when it comes to visibility. Dressing up like a bin man won't make you much better off if the driver isn't looking, but you can get a very loud air horn for your bike if you so desire (though it doesn't produce a sound that the motorist is expecting to hear), and of course if it's truly necessary you could just use your voice.

jimmies

I really think that you guys have not got what I mean....I'm not talking about a car just getting to close (on bike or bicycle)....I'm talking about having to react in a 1-2 second period where by if I didn't/couldn't get out the way I would have been very seriously hurt.

On a bike (motor or otherwise) when you are trying to evade a car that is on collision course with you, you CANNOT take a hand of the bars to tap on a window as the control needed would not be possible....especially if braking, and I know from experience that a shout would be ignored or not heard (especially with a helmet on) so a tap on the door/panel is the best way to let them realise that they are about to wipe you out.


"Post by ShutUpLegs » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:10 am

jimmies wrote:And i have no problems with a confrontation with a driver who very nearly broke me and my bike



You sound like a complete utter fuckingdick"


I would rather have to deal with an driver who was angry because I tapped his car with my foot, than deal with broken bones or worse because I didn't. If you cannot understand that then fine.

jimmies

philthy3 wrote:

Speaking as an ex motorcyclist, admittedly one who spent more time on the track than the road, your attitude merely demonstrates what dickheads motorcyclists are. There's a horn on your motorcycle for alerting other road users so why do you need to kick someone's car? Mindless bravado because it's what motorcyclists do.

Phil,

One of my best friends is a racer (british superstock being his highest series)....His father would only allow him to race and not have a bike on the road due to the dangers. As you know bikes at slow speeds can be very difficult to keep controlled when trying to turn sharply quickly. In the instances I'm talking about that require arm strength and balence - It is easier and more effective to tap a door (not damage at all) than fumble for the tiny horn button on a bike. In normal circumstances I would agree with you.

Calpol

We don't need people like you on the road causing more confrontation. We need a bit more mutual respect. Do us a favour and stick to your motorbike but ride it well away from Beds, Herts and Bucks.

cougie

I've been cycling 30 years or more now. I can't think of one incident where 'tapping' a car with my foot would help me.

Must be a motorbike only thing.

jimmies

Calpol wrote:

We don't need people like you on the road causing more confrontation. We need a bit more mutual respect. Do us a favour and stick to your motorbike but ride it well away from Beds, Herts and Bucks.

I have one moment when i am very nearly taken out by a car and i needed a quick way to let the driver know i am there and because of my only way of doing it i'm a terrible person. In every other second. I have been riding i have been courteous and calm. A guy almost hits me and doesn't even blink an eye and I'm the arsehole
........maybe it would be better if he had hit me at least that way he would know to use his mirrors in the future. I just hope that he never does the same thing again because if I had of been a person with slower reactions i would be in hospital now.

I obviously don't get it so I will stay off this subject if I stay on this board.....I have been quite shocked at the personal attack when all i have done is express an opinion.....some of you have done what i would expect and replied in a helpful manner.....the others have been down right rude. You have shown more anger via your keyboard than i did when I was nearly hit

jgsi

get a grip Jimmies..
just how long have you been riding for..?
I can't count the amount of times I have had vehicle drivers wind me up when out riding... from day 1 when I was 11 going to school and being side swiped by a car to last week with a close pass you wouldnt believe from a van driver.
it goes on and on.
Just suck it up and carry on, otherwise you might provoke something that you cannot control in the future.
I am an out and out roadie and my temper is short and foul so I need extra effort to rein it in.

StillGoing

jimmies wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Speaking as an ex motorcyclist, admittedly one who spent more time on the track than the road, your attitude merely demonstrates what dickheads motorcyclists are. There's a horn on your motorcycle for alerting other road users so why do you need to kick someone's car? Mindless bravado because it's what motorcyclists do.

Phil,

One of my best friends is a racer (british superstock being his highest series)....His father would only allow him to race and not have a bike on the road due to the dangers. As you know bikes at slow speeds can be very difficult to keep controlled when trying to turn sharply quickly. In the instances I'm talking about that require arm strength and balence - It is easier and more effective to tap a door (not damage at all) than fumble for the tiny horn button on a bike. In normal circumstances I would agree with you.

That is absolute tripe and you know it. How can taking your hand from the clip on/bar to strike a vehicle be easier than keeping your hand where it is on this "difficult to control at slow speeds bike" and extending the thumb to the horn button? You should be riding and observing, constantly looking for dangers and ready to react. In any case slow speed maneuvers i.e. walking speed, were always part of the motorcycle test. If you can't manage that then maybe you shouldn't be on the road. Cycling is dangerous and getting along with other road users is important. That motorist you alienate by being stupid forms a mind set that ALL CYCLISTS are idiots creating difficulties for anyone they next encounter.

NewTTer

philthy3 wrote:

jimmies wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Speaking as an ex motorcyclist, admittedly one who spent more time on the track than the road, your attitude merely demonstrates what dickheads motorcyclists are. There's a horn on your motorcycle for alerting other road users so why do you need to kick someone's car? Mindless bravado because it's what motorcyclists do.

Phil,

One of my best friends is a racer (british superstock being his highest series)....His father would only allow him to race and not have a bike on the road due to the dangers. As you know bikes at slow speeds can be very difficult to keep controlled when trying to turn sharply quickly. In the instances I'm talking about that require arm strength and balence - It is easier and more effective to tap a door (not damage at all) than fumble for the tiny horn button on a bike. In normal circumstances I would agree with you.

That is absolute tripe and you know it. How can taking your hand from the clip on/bar to strike a vehicle be easier than keeping your hand where it is on this "difficult to control at slow speeds bike" and extending the thumb to the horn button? You should be riding and observing, constantly looking for dangers and ready to react. In any case slow speed maneuvers i.e. walking speed, were always part of the motorcycle test. If you can't manage that then maybe you shouldn't be on the road. Cycling is dangerous and getting along with other road users is important. That motorist you alienate by being stupid forms a mind set that ALL CYCLISTS are idiots creating difficulties for anyone they next encounter.

+1000000 to this, having been a lifetime motorcyclist I have never seen such utter nonsense as that put out by Jimmies, it seems he wrote something, then didnt get the response he expected, so then tried to justify it, and has ended up digging a deeper hole

bails87

jimmies wrote:

I really think that you guys have not got what I mean....I'm not talking about a car just getting to close (on bike or bicycle)....I'm talking about having to react in a 1-2 second period where by if I didn't/couldn't get out the way I would have been very seriously hurt.

Err....Use your brakes?

And a bike helmet doesn't block your voice like a fullface motorbike helmet would.

Laird_Attwood

cougie wrote:

I've been cycling 30 years or more now. I can't think of one incident where 'tapping' a car with my foot would help me.

Must be a motorbike only thing.

:shock: No, I've riden motorbikes since I was 17. I would never kick a car or anything. blast of horn (they have them) and a rant in helmet is all.

fatdaz

I'm with the majority here in that I don't agree in any way with Jimmies' original post. I do, however take his point about the offensive nature of some of the responses to this, and many other, threads. It seems like, just as people feel invincible in a car leading to over aggressio on the roads, some people also feel invincible behind the anonymity of the Internet. It's a plague of many Internet forums not just BR. Disagree wholeheartedly by all means but why are some people so quick to become very aggressive and personal. If you want to get your aggression out take up boxing or rugby and do it properly.

jimmies

philthy3 wrote:

jimmies wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

Speaking as an ex motorcyclist, admittedly one who spent more time on the track than the road, your attitude merely demonstrates what dickheads motorcyclists are. There's a horn on your motorcycle for alerting other road users so why do you need to kick someone's car? Mindless bravado because it's what motorcyclists do.

Phil,

One of my best friends is a racer (british superstock being his highest series)....His father would only allow him to race and not have a bike on the road due to the dangers. As you know bikes at slow speeds can be very difficult to keep controlled when trying to turn sharply quickly. In the instances I'm talking about that require arm strength and balence - It is easier and more effective to tap a door (not damage at all) than fumble for the tiny horn button on a bike. In normal circumstances I would agree with you.

That is absolute tripe and you know it. How can taking your hand from the clip on/bar to strike a vehicle be easier than keeping your hand where it is on this "difficult to control at slow speeds bike" and extending the thumb to the horn button? You should be riding and observing, constantly looking for dangers and ready to react. In any case slow speed maneuvers i.e. walking speed, were always part of the motorcycle test. If you can't manage that then maybe you shouldn't be on the road. Cycling is dangerous and getting along with other road users is important. That motorist you alienate by being stupid forms a mind set that ALL CYCLISTS are idiots creating difficulties for anyone they next encounter.

Phil...when I say "tap a door"...I meant with my foot not my hand ( I can see the confusion in my post). I have very good bike control thankyou....and in the last 14 years I have yet to drop a bike (motor) during evasive manouvers because of unfocused cars drivers, being a biker has made me a much better car driver as you HAVE to be more aware on a bike.

I will accept that that maybe using my foot ( AGAIN NOT IN A DAMAGING WAY ) is not the best way to alert a driver they are about to/almost hit you, and I will try and learn from this exchange

.....but in that instant, when trying to turn sharply out of the way of a car it offers a quick effective way. Maybe I need to get better bike (cycle) control skills and be able to do it one handed, but it must be VERY hard to turn/lean sharply left, take the right hand off the bars to tap a window all at the same time. The closest thing to the car are your wheels and feet

I joined this forum to learn and mostly it has been excellent....and I certainly do suggest that some of you take up rugby (I played for 20 years until a knee reconstruction stopped it 5 years ago).....not only will you see how much of a man you really are but you will also learn how to be more respectfull when dealing with others

declan1

jimmies wrote:

I really think that you guys have not got what I mean....I'm not talking about a car just getting to close (on bike or bicycle)....I'm talking about having to react in a 1-2 second period where by if I didn't/couldn't get out the way I would have been very seriously hurt.

On a bike (motor or otherwise) when you are trying to evade a car that is on collision course with you, you CANNOT take a hand of the bars to tap on a window as the control needed would not be possible....especially if braking, and I know from experience that a shout would be ignored or not heard (especially with a helmet on) so a tap on the door/panel is the best way to let them realise that they are about to wipe you out.


"Post by ShutUpLegs » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:10 am

jimmies wrote:And i have no problems with a confrontation with a driver who very nearly broke me and my bike



You sound like a complete utter fuckingdick"


I would rather have to deal with an driver who was angry because I tapped his car with my foot, than deal with broken bones or worse because I didn't. If you cannot understand that then fine.

You use your horn. If you don't have a horn on your bike, then buy one. Don't ride around kicking people's cars - you give us all a bad reputation.

jgsi

BikeRadar.com is a responsible website and forum... ok it has its spats but by and large do you really think that the 'management' would like the rest of us to condone your actions?
So we don't.
End of.
Don't bring up irrelevant stuff like rugby.

jimmies

The rugby reference was not bought up by me....see post above mine!

I'm happy to leave this now and it has been a thread with some use and lessons - I am new to road cycling so there are going to be things for me to go through and learn.... alot of my reaction I'm sure stems from some of you less helpfull posters. I am happy that I know I'm not an aggressive road user and probably go out of my way to not impeade others, but I'm never going to be happy when I'm nearly put in hospital. I hope it never happens again (as going from above it seems to be very rare) - then I can continue my cycling life happier.

For those to whom this has never happened - and I mean having to instinctivly (sp?) move, OR hit by a moving car. You do not know how you would react. Alot of beginner cyclist in this situation would have been struck I'm sure.


cheers for the conversation

fatdaz

JGSI wrote:

BikeRadar.com is a responsible website and forum... ok it has its spats but by and large do you really think that the 'management' would like the rest of us to condone your actions?
So we don't.

But you do condone someone calling someone a "fucking dick" because they don't agree with their position? I know it's sticks and stones but it's hardly reasoned debate is it? I don't agree with Jimmies' position on this either but I don't see why that qualifies me to personally abuse him using the anonymity of the internet. I'm all for spats and banter but surely there's a line beyond which we should self regulate.

StillGoing

Just about every road cyclist has had more than their fair share of encounters with other road users, you certainly aren't unique in that respect. From my motorcycling days I know of riders who have claimed to have kicked the door skin in or kicked the mirror off of a car that has caused them to take avoiding action. Such riders are plebs and the same guys who would be crapping their pants on the track. The use of unnecessary physical contact with another vehicle is an offence of criminal damage, (wanton or reckless) and you will struggle to justify it when you have more appropriate and legal means to alert the other road user.

Just as in motorcycling, there people who are cyclists and people who use a bike but who you'd struggle to categorise as a cyclist. Don't confuse cyclists with urban scrotes on bikes who have no respect for the law or display any courtesy to anyone else.

As for rugby, try walking in to the middle of a pub fight when you're grossly outnumbered.

top_bhoy

Is there a road cyclist around who hasn't had their fair share of near misses and sadly, hits, from car users? Part and parcel of riding on the road. I don't condone anyone kicking car doors but I won't criticise anyone who has had the odd rant or hand signal here and there at a driver who has nearly taken them out.

I too don't think the name calling towards the OP was necessary.