Carbon rims... to buy or not to buy???

alpineaddict

Ok, so I am nothing more than an amateur cyclist that does the odd sportive here and there, and likes jaunts over the Dorset and Hampshire countryside... I own a Kuota Kharma bike and love it... My rides range between 40 to 100 miles... I am 'thinking' of purchasing some Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL wheels... My question is...

Should I purchase them, as apart from looking the absolute munts nuts, will they benefit my riding at all? Apart form making a lovely sound as you fly around the new forest, will they benefit my riding at all?

I know there can be a lot of snobbery amongst cyclists and some say you shouldn't buy such kit as you'll just be a labelled as having 'all the gear, with no idea'... But I don't get that... :roll:

Anyway... thoughts and advice welcome folks...

nferrar

No benefit at all but then like most of us you're bike is probably far better than you need to so if you have the spare cash then why not get bling wheels?

danlikesbikes

Pretty good wheels a guy in my local club bought some last year and they look and sound pretty good.

Ignore what others think and go your own way, if you like then and want them then buy a set thats the only choice you have to make.

rolf_f

alpineaddict wrote:

I know there can be a lot of snobbery amongst cyclists and some say you shouldn't buy such kit as you'll just be a labelled as having 'all the gear, with no idea'... But I don't get that... :roll:

You could take the alternative approach and buy some really nice lightweight shallow rim wheels that might actually help a little bit with the climbing. That way you actually achieve a cycling benefit from your spend rather than a coffee stop benefit.

TBH, "all the gear and no idea" can probably be levelled at 90% of us on here that have bought something better than a Carrera TdF so no reason to worry about that at all.

MattC59

I've got a set of Bontrager Aeolus 5.0 carbon wheels on my Enigma. Do I need them ? Nope. Does my level of riding justify them (probably similar to yours) ? Nope. Do I give a sh*t what others think ? Nope. Do they look f*cking ace and put a sh*t eating grin on my face ? Yep, and that's the main thing

Buy them !

Monty Dog

So you want to put heavier, less-reliable wheels on your bike that won't make any difference to your speed because they look nice?

Wulz

I bought a set just over a year ago, the cosmic sl`s as you quoted. I stuck them on a Kutoa Kebel as a replacement for the Aksiums which came as standard. Been very happy since. Its a fair suggestion that lightweigh shallow rim handbuilts may climb better but at the end of the day do you want to climb better or look better? You need to be realistic about what you want. If you want to trim seconds of climbs then i would say that you could be barking up the wrong tree but if like me your reasons for purchase are as below.....

50% looks & sounds
30% lighter than current wheels
20% improvement in performance ( brought about through aero or weight benefits, disclamer - i have no real evidence of either! )
then go for it!

I cant really compare them to the equivalent costing lightweight shallow rims wheels but to say they offer no real improvement over basic wheels (like Aksiums) is wrong in my opinion. They are much stiffer and lighter than the aksiums not to mention the nice noise and the looks. Ive put about 3500 miles on mine and they are still spin and are as true as the day they came out the box. Ive hit the odd nasty pot hole or two and they just seem to soak it up and keep going.

Go on, treat yourself

Headhuunter

As far as I'm aware, deep carbon wheels are a benefit once you get beyond about 20mphish as they provide an aero benefit, so they only really help if you're doing long rides at fairly steady, high speed. They won't help you on hills and they won't help if you're pootling/slowing down and speeding up a lot.... Apart from the noise and the coffee stop bling that is...

rolf_f

Wulz wrote:

I cant really compare them to the equivalent costing lightweight shallow rims wheels but to say they offer no real improvement over basic wheels (like Aksiums) is wrong in my opinion. They are much stiffer and lighter than the aksiums not to mention the nice noise and the looks.

I suppose the point is though that for a given price band, you always get more for your money with shallow rims. You can pay a lot of money for deep rimmed carbon clinchers that are heavier than a relatively cheap pair of shallow alloy rims. The aero bit comes at a very heavy price unless you know you benefit from it.

As for stiffer - that's something worth bearing in mind as is the thought that stiffer (as on bike frames) is a weight dependant desireability. Light riders will find any rim stiffer than a heavier rider - maybe stiffer than they want.

Churchill123

MattC59 wrote:

I've got a set of Bontrager Aeolus 5.0 carbon wheels on my Enigma. Do I need them ? Nope. Does my level of riding justify them (probably similar to yours) ? Nope. Do I give a sh*t what others think ? Nope. Do they look f*cking ace and put a sh*t eating grin on my face ? Yep, and that's the main thing

Buy them !

A shitting eating grin... man i need to get me one of them!

Churchill123

I don't know the real advantages of them over a normal wheel, but they do look the dogs dangalies!

alpineaddict

Monty Dog wrote:

So you want to put heavier, less-reliable wheels on your bike that won't make any difference to your speed because they look nice?

That is the question in hand... Thx all for the words of advice... seems the general consensus is to go for it, however, they will make very little difference to my riding...

PS. I am not currently planning on riding around the alps, just the usual hill you would find through out our great Isle...

Oh... and I love the thought of having a sh*t eating grin

Thx again folks...

Simm0

I bought a set of 50mm carbon wheels from my LBS and so far have no regrets. I have only done a few thousand miles on them but feel they have made a difference. I have a titanium frame and the wheels helped reduce the overall weight of my bike certainly being lighter than my old wheels. The bike feels more responsive and so far they have been quite robust which was a concern of mine.

A couple of points to maybe think about:- Crosswinds and large vehicles can take a bit of getting used to. I will revert back to my old front wheel for winter. Valve lengths, mine take 80mm valve tubes which are expensive so now I use 60's with extensions and lastly breaking is not as good as with Alu to rubber IMO.

Hope this helps

Headhuunter

Simm0 wrote:

I bought a set of 50mm carbon wheels from my LBS and so far have no regrets. I have only done a few thousand miles on them but feel they have made a difference. I have a titanium frame and the wheels helped reduce the overall weight of my bike certainly being lighter than my old wheels. The bike feels more responsive and so far they have been quite robust which was a concern of mine.

A couple of points to maybe think about:- Crosswinds and large vehicles can take a bit of getting used to. I will revert back to my old front wheel for winter. Valve lengths, mine take 80mm valve tubes which are expensive so now I use 60's with extensions and lastly breaking is not as good as with Alu to rubber IMO.

Hope this helps

Only a few thousand miles eh?! Surely that's enough to intimately aware of their positives and negatives

Wulz

Rolf F wrote:

Wulz wrote:

I cant really compare them to the equivalent costing lightweight shallow rims wheels but to say they offer no real improvement over basic wheels (like Aksiums) is wrong in my opinion. They are much stiffer and lighter than the aksiums not to mention the nice noise and the looks.

I suppose the point is though that for a given price band, you always get more for your money with shallow rims. You can pay a lot of money for deep rimmed carbon clinchers that are heavier than a relatively cheap pair of shallow alloy rims. The aero bit comes at a very heavy price unless you know you benefit from it.

As for stiffer - that's something worth bearing in mind as is the thought that stiffer (as on bike frames) is a weight dependant desireability. Light riders will find any rim stiffer than a heavier rider - maybe stiffer than they want.

I agree that you will prob get more for your money with the cost equivalent shallow rims, but i myself and a good few others seem place a certain amount of importance on more than just tiny gains made from lower weight. Sad to say it tho i do indeed like my stuff ( read cars, bikes clothes, laptop, tv set etc) to look good as well as perform good.

Something which seems to rear its head on here is how small the incremental gains are when you go up the price ranges and this is something i took into account when spending the cash on the wheels. I was aware that i could have got a better ( again lets remember we are talking small gains to most folk) wheels for less cash but the small gain i would have seen was less important than the combination of what you get with nice aero wheels altogether.

Im 72kgs and can get my Aksiums to flex fairly easily. The Bontrager ssr`s which came as standard in my 1.5 felt poor when compared to Aksiums. The cosmics feel far better than the Aksiums to the point i can generate no detectable flex and the bike is still very comfortable for long rides.

The next bike i buy i`ll equip with a set of shallow rim wheels probably around the £700 mark. That way ill have a bit of everything in the stable and be able to say that the difference in relation to the aero wheels is significant.

Cant wait to start that bike/wheel buying process, after all its half the fun.

Happy hunting

Simm0

When it comes to longevity, NO I don't think a few thousand miles is that much, some on here are doing that in a few months. I am looking for a couple of years out of these minimum!

rolf_f

Wulz wrote:

I agree that you will prob get more for your money with the cost equivalent shallow rims, but i myself and a good few others seem place a certain amount of importance on more than just tiny gains made from lower weight. Sad to say it tho i do indeed like my stuff ( read cars, bikes clothes, laptop, tv set etc) to look good as well as perform good.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. I'm lucky - I think shallow rims look much better than deep rims anyway (deep rims look a bit clumsy to me) so I get the benefit of both looks and performance but I can understand views may differ!

And of course, in Yorkshire deep carbon rims are a bit of a liability anyway - steep climbs, fast descents and lots of wind are the norm. It takes me over an hour of cycling to get anywhere that's really flat!

oldwelshman

As I said before IMO 2 pair of dura ace cl or 3 pair ultegra more value than heavier wheels for the bling look and noise

aw1808

If you can afford them then go for it , surely cycling is all about your enjoyment and what makes you feel good .

There will be a lot of people who will say what's the point etc but ask them what car they drive and why do they not drive a Basic 1l petrol car??? . It's the same principle , you buy a car on the looks an how it makes you feel and if it's practical . This is the same with a bike , you buy it because it make you feel good and it's the best you can afford .

For the record I had some c24 CL and kept braking rear drive side spokes , I was fortunate to have a family that put money together for my birthday and I'm having a set of 38mm carbon clinchers being built for my weight and riding style because I can . I'm not the best rider and a silver standard sportive rider and also a 95kg fatty , however I like riding my bike and I ride for enjoyment and not the snobbery that exists .

If you want them then buy them !!!!!!

ugo.santalucia

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Pretty good wheels a guy in my local club bought some last year and they look and sound pretty good.

Ignore what others think and go your own way, if you like then and want them then buy a set thats the only choice you have to make.

Well, if one asks for advice and then ignore other's advice and go his own way, as you suggest, the all forum thing is a bit of a waste of time, isn't it?
I think there should be a section dedicated to those seeking moral support, rather than advice. It's easy to splash someone else's cash... plenty of support there

To the OP: they don't make no sense at all, but if you buy them anyway, try to get a set that can be repaired... sometime ago there was a guy on the forum begging for a spare Zipp rim, as the LBS quoted something close to half a grand for one. I think the Planet X ones offer a good compromise between looks, performance, price and availability of spares at reasonable price. If you don't like the logos, I think you can buy expensive looking Cosmic or Zipp logos on Ebay

mkviken

wiggle have a weekend sale on wheels tyres and tube now. extra 10% off

i was tempted with the Mavic Ksyrium SR for about £700 but decided to go for the SL from a different shop.

the price of replacement carbon spokes etc put me off in the end

simon_masterson

Rolf F wrote:

alpineaddict wrote:

I know there can be a lot of snobbery amongst cyclists and some say you shouldn't buy such kit as you'll just be a labelled as having 'all the gear, with no idea'... But I don't get that... :roll:

You could take the alternative approach and buy some really nice lightweight shallow rim wheels that might actually help a little bit with the climbing. That way you actually achieve a cycling benefit from your spend rather than a coffee stop benefit.

TBH, "all the gear and no idea" can probably be levelled at 90% of us on here that have bought something better than a Carrera TdF so no reason to worry about that at all.

Pretty much that.

My personal reservation would be that I've read some concerning reports of the durability of carbon clinchers under heavy braking; that and I'd be interested to know which - regardless - is more hardy in the long term when pitted against the great British pothole...

oldwelshman

aw1808 wrote:

If you can afford them then go for it , surely cycling is all about your enjoyment and what makes you feel good .

There will be a lot of people who will say what's the point etc but ask them what car they drive and why do they not drive a Basic 1l petrol car??? . It's the same principle , you buy a car on the looks an how it makes you feel and if it's practical . This is the same with a bike , you buy it because it make you feel good and it's the best you can afford .

For the record I had some c24 CL and kept braking rear drive side spokes , I was fortunate to have a family that put money together for my birthday and I'm having a set of 38mm carbon clinchers being built for my weight and riding style because I can . I'm not the best rider and a silver standard sportive rider and also a 95kg fatty , however I like riding my bike and I ride for enjoyment and not the snobbery that exists .

If you want them then buy them !!!!!!

What? Are you real? Of course its not the same. If you buy a car with a bigger engine it will go faster generally, buying wheels 4 times the cost of decent alloy rims wont make you go faster. If you want to waste money and look good fine, but if you want value for money its different. There are many very good wheels on offer at aa fraction of the price and still look good.

Mikey23

Personally speaking, I have better things to spend my money on. But if you want to and you can afford it, why not?

aw1808

If you want them then buy them !!!!!![/quote]
What? Are you real? Of course its not the same. If you buy a car with a bigger engine it will go faster generally, buying wheels 4 times the cost of decent alloy rims wont make you go faster. If you want to waste money and look good fine, but if you want value for money its different. There are many very good wheels on offer at aa fraction of the price and still look good.[/quote]

so your telling me that when the speed limit is 30 mph your would rather be in a porsche 911 than a fiesta ?? thats my point , if you can afford it then go for it . there will be no real gains if your an average cyclist . The only difference in a bigger engine in a car is how quick it gets to the speed limit . why have a car that can do 200 mph when the quickest you can go is 70 mph legally ?

My whole point was it wont make any difference apart from in your own head and your bank balance and if you can afford then and have a need then go and buy them and not depend on a bunch of opionions on a forum that you will get completely mixed responses . Thats the beauty of being an individual or we would all ride the same bike in the same colour and same brand ......

rolf_f

aw1808 wrote:

so your telling me that when the speed limit is 30 mph your would rather be in a porsche 911 than a fiesta ?? thats my point , if you can afford it then go for it . there will be no real gains if your an average cyclist . The only difference in a bigger engine in a car is how quick it gets to the speed limit . why have a car that can do 200 mph when the quickest you can go is 70 mph legally ?

The obvious difference is that the Porsche is faster, more nicely made, handles better, accelerates faster - the advantages are obvious. A better analogy would be - would you rather be in a Ford Fiesta that looked pretty much the same as a Porsche or in a Porsche that was slightly slower than the Ford Fiesta?

I always find it odd that the trendy fashion amongst cyclists is for deep rims that look like really deep profile tyres yet with cars the fashion is for really thin rims. Really, the only reason why deep rims are so fashionable is that they are different to the shallow rims that have been the norm for over 100 years.

If the tradition had been for deep rims and the new technology was shallow rims, the exact same people who love their deep rims now would be singing the praises of shallow rims

aw1808

Rolf -thank you for understanding what I was getting at !!

cock_sportif

My tuppence: get in touch with a couple of the UK's truly world class wheelbuilders - Harry Rowlands, Paul Hewitt, naming but two - and discuss what your actual needs are for the riding you do and aspire to do.

You'll be supporting one of the most under-rated resources we have, bypassing the bloated corporate marketing bullsh1t and end up with something really excellent that'll last and last, be easy to service and fast as you'll ever need.

Whats better, some flimsy impersonal factory product with poncy decals that'll be out of fashion next month, or something rock solid you've specced yourself in discussion with an expert and has been built for you, personally?

Velonutter

I've now switched all my bikes to 50mm deep rims (Except my TT bike which runs 88mm), to Bora's, Bullets, Chinese Tubs and Chinese Clinchers.

For me I love the way they spin when you are riding above 23mph+

I'm fairly careful to make sure that they all weigh less than1600g so that I don't lose out on the hills.

I'm a fairly powerful bloke on the flat so can take real advantage then, just no where near as good up the hills!

I rarely drink, don't smoke, don't have exotic holidays (in fact only have long weekends) and chose to spend my hard earned money on my bikes, I don't give a toss what anyone else thinks regarding the look of my bikes, I ride for me and no one else.

As far as I'm concerned ride them for your own reasons, not anyone else's! 8)

Mikey1976

Ive just upgraded from Mavic open pro to RS80 C50 carbon wheels.

To be honest I couldnt really justify the price tag to myself, let alone to my wife (who still think they cost me £100 :shock: ) but boy do they make the bike look completly different

They roll great, my times are faster on straights and ive not noticed any difference on any of my climbs, if anything ive got a few PB's

So to sum up, if you can afford it, go for it.

dennisn

Monty Dog wrote:

So you want to put heavier, less-reliable wheels on your bike that won't make any difference to your speed because they look nice?

+1... very well put. I have a HED three spoke rear wheel that looks great. Right now it hangs in my basement, mocking me, because it's cracked, can't be fixed(that I know of), and cost me a whole lot of money. I do use it however for stretching tubulars although that sort of only further mocks me. On top of it all I never did go any faster. :oops: :oops: