Advice for 1st 12hr TT?

BeauMaximus

I'm doing the KCA 12 next Sunday which will be my first one.
I trained for the marmotte but since then, no structured training to speak of, just weekly 10's and an odd 30 -50 mile weekend ride.

I did 8:19 (gate to gate)for the Marmotte and did do a nine hour ride a few weeks ago, just to make sure I can do the hours, so not worried about that but any tips on maximising miles covered would be welcome.
(Apart from the obvious 'should have done more training' )

I dont have a TT bike so will be using my road bike with clip on bars.

thanks

Mark Alexander

Having a support car and helper makes a huge difference. Good luck.

cougie

Have you used tt bars for any length of time ? If not then I'd not use them - just go with the road bike - you know you can do 2/3 of the time in that position anywya.

Mark Alexander

That's good advice if you haven't done at least a 100 tt on them. Don't change any of your set up or food type. Doo the 1st 100 like a 100 then see how you feel.

whatever you do don't stop. If you stop you're losing distance. I lost 100 mins and at 3 mins a mile that's a lot.

RoadMeridaBen

Is it really the right idea to do the first 100 at 100 miler speed? keeping in mind even at a decent pace thats 4 hours
leaving you another 8 hours to go with lol.

How did you lose nearly an hour and 3/4, did you stop to do the weekly shop? :P

danowat

Sounds obvious, but minimise the amount of time you spend not moving, get your feeding schedule sorted, and try it out on a long ride (bit late now though....)
Good support is (IMO) the difference between a good ride and a not so good ride, make sure they are well drilled in what you intend to do each time you get to them.
Pacing is very important, but be prepared to alter any schedule on the fly.
Spare wheels in a follow car and a mobile phone can save a lot of time if you puncture

Surfr

Alternatively, if you don't have support. Park your car or deposit a bag of drinks and food somewhere on course which you will pass regularly. With 4 bottles and a bento box on the bike, most feed strategies can be met with 2 brief stops. I managed this in the National last year and total stoppage including pee breaks amounted to 9 minutes. That probably accounts for 2-3 miles off of my total distance. I kept 25 litres of water, a washing up bowl and sponge in the boot too for quick face/hand wash. Feels like bliss when you are coated in sweat salt or sticky gels.

Have a good one. I've just pulled out of the Welsh 12 next weekend after a terrible ride in the 50 yesterday.

Pross

I'm doing my first in the Welsh on Sunday (shame you've pulled out Surfr, saw your name on the start sheet and your previous distance was pretty impressive!). There are feeds organised by the WCA on the one I'm doing which I hadn't realised and it is exactly where I was going to get my family to feed me due to it being next to my sister's house! I haven't done any huge rides just a few 100 mile rides and a maximum of 112. Aiming for 200 miles which I think is realistic providing I eat and drink well, the weather is OK (which I think is the forecast) and I don't have any major comfort problems. I'll just be riding my road bike with clip on aero bars to give myself plenty of body position options.

SBezza

Mark Alexander wrote:

That's good advice if you haven't done at least a 100 tt on them. Don't change any of your set up or food type. Doo the 1st 100 like a 100 then see how you feel.

whatever you do don't stop. If you stop you're losing distance. I lost 100 mins and at 3 mins a mile that's a lot.

I certainly wouldn't do the 1st 100 at 100 mile pace, it might seem a good idea, but you will fade quite significantly. You need to try and do the 12 hour at a high endurance pace as a maximum really.

I would start at a similar effort to the 9 hour ride you did recently, you might be able to go slightly harder than that from the start, only you know how you felt after the 9 hour ride.

If you do stop, stop just to collect food and drink, or for a piss etc. Trying not to get off the bike for a sitdown etc, that is not really a good idea. Even if it means slowing down for a while (if you have aches and pains or a bad patch), at least you will still be moving.

Ultimately it really does depend if you are riding just to get around and complete it, or racing it full on.

PS What number are you, I will be there doing some marshalling, I will give you a shout or two.

sub55

Pross wrote:

I'm doing my first in the Welsh on Sunday (shame you've pulled out Surfr, saw your name on the start sheet and your previous distance was pretty impressive!). There are feeds organised by the WCA on the one I'm doing which I hadn't realised and it is exactly where I was going to get my family to feed me due to it being next to my sister's house! I haven't done any huge rides just a few 100 mile rides and a maximum of 112. Aiming for 200 miles which I think is realistic providing I eat and drink well, the weather is OK (which I think is the forecast) and I don't have any major comfort problems. I'll just be riding my road bike with clip on aero bars to give myself plenty of body position options.

do you like rice pudding

BeauMaximus

A guy from my club is doing it for the third time, and another is doing support for both of us.
Funnily enough, I was actualy thinking of stopping relatively often to help my aching back/neck, but that seems to be a no no judging by the responses here.
I am going to have to take my pain like a man then!

I am aiming for 200 minimum but not sure whether to set my pace for, say 220 so that if/when I fade, i'll still get 200 or whether I should just set my pace for 200 and then if I feel up to it, can push on toward the end.

I'm sure that will be harder said than done at that point, so leaning toward the former.

I'm no 39 so maybe see you there...

Grill

I'm doing the Welsh 12 this Sunday as well. First time, but I love a challenge. Hoping for 200 but I'll be happy just to finish!

danowat

Another piece of advice, don't go to work the day after your first 12hr, I did, and it was a mistake, I was very broken the next day (Monday), and completely useless (more than normal)!, but I was back on the bike on the Wednesday.

As for "pain", I just made sure I slapped some creme to my nether regions every few hours, I can't really say (apart from normal fatigue), that I got "pain", I was riding my TT bike, in the tuck for as much as possible, so being comfy is quite important.

I did my first at the beginning of August, it was a quick 12hr course, and I managed 247 miles, and rode right at the top end of endurance power (200-210w) for the whole event, started to push at 10hrs, as I was feeling quite fresh, suffered for that at 11hrs and the last hr was a struggle!

Pross

sub55 wrote:

Pross wrote:

I'm doing my first in the Welsh on Sunday (shame you've pulled out Surfr, saw your name on the start sheet and your previous distance was pretty impressive!). There are feeds organised by the WCA on the one I'm doing which I hadn't realised and it is exactly where I was going to get my family to feed me due to it being next to my sister's house! I haven't done any huge rides just a few 100 mile rides and a maximum of 112. Aiming for 200 miles which I think is realistic providing I eat and drink well, the weather is OK (which I think is the forecast) and I don't have any major comfort problems. I'll just be riding my road bike with clip on aero bars to give myself plenty of body position options.

do you like rice pudding

Love it - I'm thinking of spending the afternoon stuffing those rice pudding cornets down my neck instead of riding

Grill

danowat wrote:

Another piece of advice, don't go to work the day after your first 12hr, I did, and it was a mistake, I was very broken the next day (Monday), and completely useless (more than normal)!, but I was back on the bike on the Wednesday.

As for "pain", I just made sure I slapped some creme to my nether regions every few hours, I can't really say (apart from normal fatigue), that I got "pain", I was riding my TT bike, in the tuck for as much as possible, so being comfy is quite important.

I did my first at the beginning of August, it was a quick 12hr course, and I managed 247 miles, and rode right at the top end of endurance power (200-210w) for the whole event, started to push at 10hrs, as I was feeling quite fresh, suffered for that at 11hrs and the last hr was a struggle!

Luckily I work from home.

I'm doing it on my road bike (Scott Foil) with aero bars. Did you use a skinsuit? My plans was to use one and shove everything into my top tube bag.

danowat

Grill wrote:

Luckily I work from home.

I'm doing it on my road bike (Scott Foil) with aero bars. Did you use a skinsuit? My plans was to use one and shove everything into my top tube bag.

Yes, a skinsuit, I didn't carry anything (other than a mobile), I wore a aero helmet throughout, although I did notice a number of people removed their helmet on the finish circuit.

Grill

What was your fueling like? I was thinking a couple isotonic gels along with a 2:1 and half a bar an hour, although it's going to be difficult for me to eat that much.

danowat

I was drinking a couple of mouthfull's every 10mins of High5 4:1, I set my Garmin to beep to remind me, as I tend to forget to drink, used around 9-10 litres of High5 4:1 in total.
I ate 1 powerbar energize bar every hour (they were very easy to eat on the fly), and also a few mouthful's of normal coke (cold and flat) at a couple of pee stops later on.
Opted not to use gel's as many people can't tolerate gel's over that amount of time, my fuelling was nigh on perfect for me, but I already knew my calorie requirements from test rides at my target power prior to the event.

SBezza

Grill wrote:

What was your fueling like? I was thinking a couple isotonic gels along with a 2:1 and half a bar an hour, although it's going to be difficult for me to eat that much.

Have a complete mix of foods that you like, don't just relie on energy bars, have things like sandwiches, sauasage rolls (or something similar that is savory), water as well as energy drink, it gets pretty sickly after a while.

My last 12 resulted in me not eating for the last 3-4 hours as I felt sick from all the energy products, luckily I was able to finally get a gel or 2 down in the last hour, then again I am used to riding with very little food. Alot of people would have probably really suffered big time.

You will never eat what you use up in terms of calories, your body can not process it as quick as you use it up, so it is just getting food down you to top up glycogen as best you can, though at the effort you will be doing for such a long TT you will be burning a fair bit of fat as well as glycogen.

danowat

I had some backup food, fig rolls, sausage rolls and the like, luckily I didn't need them, as my support crew ended up gorging themselves on them!.

I tried out my nutrition on long rides, so I knew that I wouldn't suffer any issues, and I didn't.

Grill

Normally I require very little fueling. On a 5 hour ride I'm good with 2 gels and 1 energy bar with 1 bottle of energy drink and the other with a zero tab. If anything I think I'm going to have to force myself to eat and hydrate.

Pross

Grill wrote:

Normally I require very little fueling. On a 5 hour ride I'm good with 2 gels and 1 energy bar with 1 bottle of energy drink and the other with a zero tab. If anything I think I'm going to have to force myself to eat and hydrate.

Well done on your ride yesterday. How did you find it? I was happy to get around and beat my 200 mile target (I think I got about 207 - 208 but had to leave before the results came in).

Grill

Pross wrote:

Grill wrote:

Normally I require very little fueling. On a 5 hour ride I'm good with 2 gels and 1 energy bar with 1 bottle of energy drink and the other with a zero tab. If anything I think I'm going to have to force myself to eat and hydrate.

Well done on your ride yesterday. How did you find it? I was happy to get around and beat my 200 mile target (I think I got about 207 - 208 but had to leave before the results came in).

Nice job! One of our guys bonked hard and quit at the 6 hour mark.

It was an experience to be sure. I did 231 miles (Garmin) although the official result will probably be 229+. I was sent around the A40 loop before the finishing circuit twice by the marshal (wasn't the only one) so they said they'd correct my distance (214 + 15-16 for the A40 loop) for the official results. I ran out of food and water as a result of that extra loop and really struggled until I got to my support and was able to cane the final laps.

I found the A40 on the first circuit to be the most difficult section and I wanted to stop every time I got on it, but the minute I got off towards Chainbridge I'd feel strong and ride straight through.

Definitely be doing it again and now have an eye on the 24!

Here's my Strava for the TT: http://app.strava.com/rides/20633996

danowat

Good stuff guys

Pross

Grill wrote:

Pross wrote:

Grill wrote:

Normally I require very little fueling. On a 5 hour ride I'm good with 2 gels and 1 energy bar with 1 bottle of energy drink and the other with a zero tab. If anything I think I'm going to have to force myself to eat and hydrate.

Well done on your ride yesterday. How did you find it? I was happy to get around and beat my 200 mile target (I think I got about 207 - 208 but had to leave before the results came in).

Nice job! One of our guys bonked hard and quit at the 6 hour mark.

It was an experience to be sure. I did 231 miles (Garmin) although the official result will probably be 229+. I was sent around the A40 loop before the finishing circuit twice by the marshal (wasn't the only one) so they said they'd correct my distance (214 + 15-16 for the A40 loop) for the official results. I ran out of food and water as a result of that extra loop and really struggled until I got to my support and was able to cane the final laps.

I found the A40 on the first circuit to be the most difficult section and I wanted to stop every time I got on it, but the minute I got off towards Chainbridge I'd feel strong and ride straight through.

Definitely be doing it again and now have an eye on the 24!

Here's my Strava for the TT: http://app.strava.com/rides/20633996

Good ride. Are you the Aussie / Kiwi? rider then? I think I heard you explaining the extra loop you got sent on after the race. Why didn't the lady from Ajax finish? She was the only female competitor in the race so could have had a nice long break to recover and still taken the prize / title. I assume number 46 won? He was flying - must have done 270+

Grill

American in the Ajax skinsuit and pointy helmet!

The girl from Ajax (Suzie) did finish, and ran a really good race. There were actually two girls riding with the winner in the class putting up 210+. One of our newer members (a guy) gave it a go and unfortunately was a bit unprepared and caned the out before hitting the wall.

Yeah Dan Coleman (46) won and the rest of Pembrokeshire Velo put up huge numbers to take the team crown as well. Can't believe he's a junior the way he was flying!

Pross

Ah right, I thought I saw a DNF against her number. I hadn't realised the winner was a junior - I was surprised to see a non-seeded rider going so well but I guess that's down to him having no previous then. He had a really nice, fluid pedalling action compared to most of the other fast boys.

Grill

Yup, he was smooth as could be. I was surprised how many of the TT bike+disc wheels lot were trundling along at 15mph. Although at my weight I never would have stayed upright on the A40!

Pross

Does anyone else get numb feet when riding a 12? Mine starting hurting about half way through and I probably had 10 minutes off the bike as a result as well as losing some time due to riding more slowly. The left foot recovered pretty quickly after I finished but my right toes are still completely numb so I wondered if this is fairly commonplace in people new to such long rides and, if so, how long it usually takes for the numbness to stop. It's a bit annoying as my legs felt the freshest they have in a long time when I got back on the bike today and even my saddle area is fine.

danowat

Yes, its quite common.

My left foot was numb for 4-5 days after the 12hr

Grill

If they're still numb it's most likely an issue with circulation from either your shoes being too tight (feet will swell after several hours) or the cold. I have always had issues with poor circulation but didn't suffer at all during the 12 hours. What I did was wear my lightest weight and stiffest shoes with the most ventilation (Bontrager RXXXL). I chose these as opposed to my RLs as the stiffer sole meant that there would be less loss of energy and they wouldn't collapse my foot and I new the ventilation would come in handy later in the day. I offset the cold by wearing Altura winter merino socks. I'm a huge fan of merino wool and wear it all the time. The 7 seasons I did in the Alpes taught me the value of a material that not only regulates body temperature, but also effectively evacuates moisture. The fact that it doesn't absorb bacteria so it doesn't smell is a bonus. Combined with my shoe covers my feet were comfortable all day with none of the normal loss of sensation that I get when I wear my other socks.