Bad Days..

MarkAshton
MarkAshton Posts: 119
edited August 2012 in Training, fitness and health
Went out the door yesterday, within a few minutes knew my legs were not wanting to work.

I attempted by intervals session anyway and massively missed the mark.

What do you do in this situation? Call it a day and head home or just bosh out what you can?

I carried on, but wondering I just further delayed recovery?

Comments

  • danowat
    danowat Posts: 2,877
    Depends why the legs weren't "wanting to work"
  • SBezza
    SBezza Posts: 2,173
    If I couldn't hit the prescribed powers I would be expecting, I would can the session most likely and get more recovery in. As mentioned above it does depend on why you were having a bad day, but it happens to us all.
  • MarkAshton
    MarkAshton Posts: 119
    Legs just feeling heavy, I was aiming for intervals at 120% of FTP (I have been able to hit those numbers in previous sessions), but could barley even manage FTP.

    Turned the session into sweetspot.

    I suspect my legs were not fully recovered from previous sessions + seeing the low numbers on the 1st interval lowered my motivation. I was also aware it was cooler than it has been. Could this affect power production? I am starting to think I put out better power when its warm...
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Did you manage to do a decent length sweetspot session?
  • danowat
    danowat Posts: 2,877
    Tom Dean wrote:
    Did you manage to do a decent length sweetspot session?

    I think I know where you are going :wink:
  • JimboPlob
    JimboPlob Posts: 397
    Where??
  • MarkAshton
    MarkAshton Posts: 119
    Was aiming to do 5x5 intervals @ 115-120%

    After the 1st interval was down at about 110%, I tried another and barley managed to hit FTP.

    I ended up just doing a 25 minute block at 90% FTP. Legs just couldn't lift it above that.

    For reference, on Saturday I was doing my 5 minute intervals at just over 120% and I have recently ridden for the hour all out to derive FTP. It was defiantly a bad day
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    All I was thinking was if you're struggling to do ~3mins at FTP, I would be surprised if you could do a meaningful session with a good amount of time at 90%.

    I guess danowat you mean the FTP figure could be wrong?

    edit: the above written before previous post.
  • danowat
    danowat Posts: 2,877
    Tom Dean wrote:
    All I was thinking was if you're struggling to do ~3mins at FTP, I would be surprised if you could do a meaningful session with a good amount of time at 90%.

    edit: the above written before previous post.

    pretty much what you said :wink:
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    MarkAshton wrote:
    I ended up just doing a 25 minute block at 90% FTP. Legs just couldn't lift it above that.

    This is not a training session, it will do nothing for you except add to your fatigue.
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    Some days I just can't seem to hit my interval plan, usually on the Turbo. When this happens I try to do something else that will be meaningful, but usually this is fruitless too. I then get off the Turbo and have a shower and a rest. If I'm not hitting the right power output during intervals I'm not getting my body to adapt (is my rather simplistic viewpoint on training).

    After the session I look at the power data and it usually shows unusually high HR compared to power output. I tend to not look at HR during the session and focus purely on power output.
  • MarkAshton
    MarkAshton Posts: 119
    Tom Dean wrote:
    MarkAshton wrote:
    I ended up just doing a 25 minute block at 90% FTP. Legs just couldn't lift it above that.

    This is not a training session, it will do nothing for you except add to your fatigue.

    The total ride was 1:10:00 with an IF of 0.86 giving a TSS of 95.

    I agree that it probably didn't do anything to improve where I am, but is there still benefit to this? Basically, is it better to either give up early and rest or ride very very easy for the time I had ear marked for training (I do it before work so I am up and awake).

    Its the first time in months I have missed my targets by this much. I have been very good this season at recovering well and nailing every session.
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Tom Dean wrote:
    MarkAshton wrote:
    I ended up just doing a 25 minute block at 90% FTP. Legs just couldn't lift it above that.

    This is not a training session, it will do nothing for you except add to your fatigue.

    You could say that about any individual training session.
    More problems but still living....
  • danowat
    danowat Posts: 2,877
    MarkAshton wrote:
    The total ride was 1:10:00 with an IF of 0.86 giving a TSS of 95.

    Hmmm.....
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    amaferanga wrote:
    Tom Dean wrote:
    MarkAshton wrote:
    I ended up just doing a 25 minute block at 90% FTP. Legs just couldn't lift it above that.

    This is not a training session, it will do nothing for you except add to your fatigue.

    You could say that about any individual training session.

    Correct. Any session in the context of not being able to hit FTP for more than 3 minutes would not have a positive effect vs resting.
  • MarkAshton
    MarkAshton Posts: 119
    danowat wrote:
    MarkAshton wrote:
    The total ride was 1:10:00 with an IF of 0.86 giving a TSS of 95.

    Hmmm.....

    ? what you thinking?
  • MarkAshton
    MarkAshton Posts: 119
    IF actually 0.88 (was looking at relative intensity of GC which is 0.86)
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    What were you doing for the remainder of the ride to get an IF of 0.88?
    More problems but still living....
  • danowat
    danowat Posts: 2,877
    MarkAshton wrote:
    danowat wrote:
    MarkAshton wrote:
    The total ride was 1:10:00 with an IF of 0.86 giving a TSS of 95.

    Hmmm.....

    ? what you thinking?

    Just looked a bit high for one and a bit failed intervals and a 25min 90% FTP ride.
  • SBezza
    SBezza Posts: 2,173
    Tom Dean wrote:
    MarkAshton wrote:
    I ended up just doing a 25 minute block at 90% FTP. Legs just couldn't lift it above that.

    This is not a training session, it will do nothing for you except add to your fatigue.

    Why do you think that?

    Sounds like a good sweetspot interval to me, ideally it would have been better being backed up with another one, but certainly not wasted training really.

    I have had days where getting stuff done at FTP is too difficult, but doing high tempo and sweetspot stuff is just about manageable, that 10% difference could easily be a cause to fail an interval.
  • SBezza
    SBezza Posts: 2,173
    danowat wrote:
    MarkAshton wrote:
    danowat wrote:
    MarkAshton wrote:
    The total ride was 1:10:00 with an IF of 0.86 giving a TSS of 95.

    Hmmm.....

    ? what you thinking?

    Just looked a bit high for one and a bit failed intervals and a 25min 90% FTP ride.

    Agree with this, what other stuff was done after the 30 mins of work
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    SBezza wrote:
    Why do you think that?

    It sounds like half a moderate session to me (one interval is not 'intervals' :)). I would think the negative effect on subsequent days' training would hugely outweigh the benefit.
  • SBezza
    SBezza Posts: 2,173
    Tom Dean wrote:
    SBezza wrote:
    Why do you think that?

    It sounds like half a moderate session to me (one interval is not 'intervals' :)). I would think the negative effect on subsequent days' training would hugely outweigh the benefit.

    Well you might be thinking wrong, all sessions on their own are pointless to a degree, it is how they are linked together over the long term that drive adaptions, not one individual session. I only did 1 15 min interval at 90% last night amongst other training, I am pretty sure my coach knows what they are doing ;)

    There is no doubt it could have been a better training session, but the guy was obviously too fatigued to do Vo2Max intervals and did the right thing by canning them and trying something not quite as difficult. No doubt over the course of the weeks/months ahead he will have gained some benefit out of it. To be honest that session wouldn't have tired him out so much that he couldn't do training the following day, and as the accumalative effect of training takes effect it might be better for him than having extra rest.

    Now if he struggles to do 80%-90% sessions then I would suggest certainly having a rest, as fatigue is probably too high, but not being able to do Vo2Max intervals can be just down to general tiredness on the day, busy day at work, lack of sleep etc. You have to be pretty rested to do quality Vo2Max intervals in my eyes, where as other training can be done in a more tired state.
  • MarkAshton
    MarkAshton Posts: 119
    SBezza wrote:
    danowat wrote:
    MarkAshton wrote:
    danowat wrote:
    MarkAshton wrote:
    The total ride was 1:10:00 with an IF of 0.86 giving a TSS of 95.

    Hmmm.....

    ? what you thinking?

    Just looked a bit high for one and a bit failed intervals and a 25min 90% FTP ride.

    Agree with this, what other stuff was done after the 30 mins of work

    Ok, essentially it looked like this:

    18 min to training location (avg 60% FTP)
    1 x 5 @ avg 110% FTP - Realised my legs were good for nothing
    2 min rest
    1 x 5 @ avg 100 % FTP - Gave it one last go, mentally I was also broken
    2 min rest
    23 min @ 92% FTP - This was about as much as I could lift it
    18 min to home (avg 70% FTP)
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Do you normally only leave 2 mins rest between 5 min intervals?
  • MarkAshton
    MarkAshton Posts: 119
    No, but trying something new. I was feeling drained before the 1st interval though. I was off the pace after the 2nd minute into my interval.

    I probably was targeting too big a wattage given I was only giving myself 2 mins rest, however, I certainly wasn't rested enough to perform these even close to the target.
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Blimey. 5x5 115-120% with 2 mins rest. Is that even possible?
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Tom Dean wrote:
    Blimey. 5x5 115-120% with 2 mins rest. Is that even possible?

    Doubtful.

    105-110% FTP would be a more sensible target with only 2min rest.
    More problems but still living....
  • danowat
    danowat Posts: 2,877
    Tom Dean wrote:
    Blimey. 5x5 115-120% with 2 mins rest. Is that even possible?

    Is if your FTP is incorrect :wink:

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