Echelons

tailwindhome

Yesterdays stage was the first time I've seen these echelons in action and it was amazing to see the impact they had on the peloton.

I did a bit of googling to educate myself/ kill a lunch break and I thought some maybe interested in the posts I found.

Those who already know everything won't be interested

http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2008/12/ ... he-gutter/

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2008/09/e ... rosswinds/

LeicesterLad

What about me?

http://www.inthegc.com/2012/08/echelons-what-are-they.html

FJS

why growing up in the Lowlands you learn how to do echelons...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8qgjyqi ... re=related

rick_chasey

FJS wrote:

why growing up in the Lowlands you learn how to do echelons...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8qgjyqi ... re=related

You say that.

When was the last time you saw a 'Dutch hopeful' get stuck into an echelon?

greasedscotsman

Rick Chasey wrote:

FJS wrote:

why growing up in the Lowlands you learn how to do echelons...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8qgjyqi ... re=related

You say that.

When was the last time you saw a 'Dutch hopeful' get stuck into an echelon?

It was a surpise not to see Gesink lying on the floor underneath Valverde in yesterday's crash!

skylla

Rick Chasey wrote:

FJS wrote:

why growing up in the Lowlands you learn how to do echelons...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8qgjyqi ... re=related

You say that.

When was the last time you saw a 'Dutch hopeful' get stuck into an echelon?

Oh dear, where's the obligatory emoticon?

rick_chasey

skylla wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

FJS wrote:

why growing up in the Lowlands you learn how to do echelons...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8qgjyqi ... re=related

You say that.

When was the last time you saw a 'Dutch hopeful' get stuck into an echelon?

Oh dear, where's the obligatory emoticon?

.

FJS

Rick Chasey wrote:

FJS wrote:

why growing up in the Lowlands you learn how to do echelons...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8qgjyqi ... re=related

You say that.

When was the last time you saw a 'Dutch hopeful' get stuck into an echelon?

Yeah, a mystery that... Must be something to do with the way they recruit their 'hopefuls' on those junior Rabobank climbing clinics in the Ardennes and then put them straight away on an international programme. The average Dutch domestique come up through the domestic pro ranks still knows how to do a decent crosswinds I reckon.
I've only done lowly level junior racing back home, but I can remember pretty much every other training being an 'echelon training'. Can't really do any hill climbing training....

skylla

Excellent choice, Rick. Back on track!

dsoutar

I think one of the best examples I saw was a couple of years ago when LA and AC were on the same team and there was a stage (Med Coast ?) where there was a lot of x-wind and it really split the peloton up. Busy at work so no time to google the actual details but there are plenty on here who will be able to recall without recourse to searching internet.

Had a huge bearing on the stage and potentially the overall.

I hope by mentioning LA & AC I haven't opened a can of worms here

rick_chasey

dsoutar wrote:

I think one of the best examples I saw was a couple of years ago when LA and AC were on the same team and there was a stage (Med Coast ?) where there was a lot of x-wind and it really split the peloton up. Busy at work so no time to google the actual details but there are plenty on here who will be able to recall without recourse to searching internet.

Had a huge bearing on the stage and potentially the overall.

I hope by mentioning LA & AC I haven't opened a can of worms here

A good choice. 2009 tour stage 3.

Echelons show the true colours of a team very quickly.

graeme_s-2

It was Columbia who put the hammer down and caused the split iirc. I think they were pissed off that none of the other sprinter's teams were prepared to chase breakaways as Cav was winning all the sprints, so they used it as an opportunity to get one over on the others.

inkyfingers

That 09 Tour stage was textbook stuff. Everybody knew that stretch was going to be dangerous, but when HTC hit the front somebody let the gap go and bang.

I think i'm right in saying that missing the split on that stage cost Wiggins a podium finish in that Tour.

keyser__soze

Chasing Legends has some good coverage of that stage.

graeme_s-2

inkyfingers wrote:

That 09 Tour stage was textbook stuff. Everybody knew that stretch was going to be dangerous, but when HTC hit the front somebody let the gap go and bang.

I think i'm right in saying that missing the split on that stage cost Wiggins a podium finish in that Tour.

Can't remember the times exactly, but it certainly didn't help. Wiggins did say later that he wasn't riding like a GC contender at that point, as it never occurred to him that he'd be that high up the GC by the time they got into Paris.

greasedscotsman

inkyfingers wrote:

That 09 Tour stage was textbook stuff. Everybody knew that stretch was going to be dangerous, but when HTC hit the front somebody let the gap go and bang.

Wasn't that somebody Contador?

ddraver

Funnily enough, if youre a Dutch amateur cyclist, knowing where to be in an echelon, exactly what angle to the wind to ride at and how to force your way into one seems to be genetically transferred! It's also a great way to make a poor english wannabe cry on a regular basis

Emoticon for that Chasey?

rick_chasey

ddraver wrote:

Funnily enough, if youre a Dutch amateur cyclist, knowing where to be in an echelon, exactly what angle to the wind to ride at and how to force your way into one seems to be genetically transferred! It's also a great way to make a poor english wannabe cry on a regular basis

Emoticon for that Chasey?

dougzz

I get the feeling several here are at this very moment are lifting chairs and singing about some foto

ms_tree

Qatar is always good for echelons as well.

disquieting_museeuws

ddraver wrote:

Funnily enough, if youre a Dutch amateur cyclist, knowing where to be in an echelon, exactly what angle to the wind to ride at and how to force your way into one seems to be genetically transferred! It's also a great way to make a poor english wannabe cry on a regular basis

My Dutchie girlfriend talks about huge echelons of kids riding to school against the crosswinds (along with inevitable crashes and cars stuck behind as they fanned out across the road) when she was a lass - definitely in the DNA!

On the Vuelta, echelon racing has always been present, I believe, especially when the northern Europeans started mixing with the Spanish climbers. It can make even the dullest-looking stage fantastically exciting, one of the reasons I love the Vuelta.

knedlicky

FJS wrote:

why growing up in the Lowlands you learn how to do echelons...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8qgjyqi ... re=related

That must a pretty strong wind about the 50 sec - 1 min mark. If the guy ever managed to get on his bike, he probably was blown into the canal before he got very far and/or as soon as he got up any speed.

The practice stretch has its other complications, since sometimes it has trees on the windward side, but these then at some point finish. At that point (or if there were any open corridors through the trees), there would probably be a real blast which would put those at the back into the gutter.

knedlicky

Talking about Echelons, the Vuelta and the Netherlands, ...
the Vuelta is to start in the Netherlands in 2015, with 5 stages – a 31 km TTT as opener, start at the FC Emmen football stadium, the second through Friesland to Leeuwarden, the third and fourth stages to finish in Zwolle and Breda respectively, and the fifth probably finishing at Eindhoven.

So those with hopes of also being in the 2015 Vuelta should get the practice in while they can.

bompington

Commuting in Scotland I have learned over the years to do one-man echelons pretty effectively...

blazing_saddles

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned stage 2 of the 2010 Giro............in Holland.
Didi Domenico Pozzovivo blown out the back door with 100kms to go and the hammer stayed down
all the way to the finish.
Gibo Simoni pulling Lampre's little train for Petacchi. Not something you see every day, either!

Probably the best example of echelon carnage in recent years.

knedlicky

bompington wrote:

Commuting in Scotland I have learned over the years to do one-man echelons pretty effectively...

You have the Hinault technique then?

bompington

knedlicky wrote:

bompington wrote:

Commuting in Scotland I have learned over the years to do one-man echelons pretty effectively...

You have the Hinault technique then?

Sorry, I'm afraid in my ignorance I don't Hinault what you're talking about

ddraver

Ha!

Should be ashamed of yourself, but I should be moreso!

alan_a

dougzz wrote:

I get the feeling several here are at this very moment are lifting chairs and singing about some foto

Only on a forum like this would any non Dutch know what you are talking about.

knedlicky

bompington wrote:

knedlicky wrote:

bompington wrote:

Commuting in Scotland I have learned over the years to do one-man echelons pretty effectively...

You have the Hinault technique then?

Sorry, I'm afraid in my ignorance I don't Hinault what you're talking about

Even when alone, Hinault rode with acute awareness of the wind; maybe it had to do with his upbringing in Brittany where I suppose the wind off the Atlantic sometimes gets strong too.

What I mean is that if the wind was from the left and for a moment there was some shelter from a wall or a hedge, he rode right on the edge of the left side of the road, more than other riders, to make the most of the shelter.
But then if he passed someone who tried to latch on (but which he didn't want), he’d move right over to the edge of the right side of the road, so that it was impossible for them to follow without ending up in the gutter.

bompington

Thanks for the info, as someone whose only real knowledge of cycling history comes from this forum it's always good to hear the stories.