Vaughters
Comments
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Rick Chasey wrote:JV's a bit mental.
In a similar way to Millar.
Only a bit more extreme.
That's not a bad thing.
Andy0 -
ratherbeintobago wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:JV's a bit mental.
In a similar way to Millar.
Only a bit more extreme.
That's not a bad thing.
But internet forum people?0 -
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frenchfighter wrote:Also it is interesting to note the view of people on here towards some dopers and others. It seems that if you are from the US and a few other places (maybe even Bel) it doesn't matter you doped in the past. But if you are from Spain or Italy then you are awful.
I think it's mainly to do with whether the rider held their hands up and are subsequently vocally anti-doping. I don't think the spanish/italian riders fit this profile. But I don't believe that's anything to do with nationality.0 -
derbygrimpeur wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Also it is interesting to note the view of people on here towards some dopers and others. It seems that if you are from the US and a few other places (maybe even Bel) it doesn't matter you doped in the past. But if you are from Spain or Italy then you are awful.
I think it's mainly to do with whether the rider held their hands up and are subsequently vocally anti-doping. I don't think the spanish/italian riders fit this profile. But I don't believe that's anything to do with nationality.
It's all about the excuses and how you do it.
Contador's beef thing I find mildly insulting. A bit like Hamilton's long lost brother.0 -
+1Rick Chasey wrote:derbygrimpeur wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Also it is interesting to note the view of people on here towards some dopers and others. It seems that if you are from the US and a few other places (maybe even Bel) it doesn't matter you doped in the past. But if you are from Spain or Italy then you are awful.
I think it's mainly to do with whether the rider held their hands up and are subsequently vocally anti-doping. I don't think the spanish/italian riders fit this profile. But I don't believe that's anything to do with nationality.
It's all about the excuses and how you do it.
Contador's beef thing I find mildly insulting. A bit like Hamilton's long lost brother.0 -
It's not about being Spanish or Italian, it's abou being a grown up about geting caught.
Compare and contrast. David Millar gets caught with some syringes and, after a couple of days of rough treatment from the gendarmes, owns up, does his time, comes back and decides to make his experience into something positive.
Alejandro Valverde gets caught and claims that mishandling of some unidentified person's blood siezed in the Puerto raids has caused it to become an exact DNA match of his own then drags the whole thing through the courts for months to avoid sanction. Then, on his return, says and does nothing as regards clarifying his stance on cheating.
Thomas Dekker get's caught and, in a slightly more nuanced fashion, claims it's all a conspiracy, threatens legal action, but eventually takes his lumps, cooperates with WADA and the UCI and comes back after what must have been a fairly humiliating time on the Garmin development squad.
Tyler Hamilton gets caught twice in quick succession and blames it on an unborn twin brother.
I even have a modicum of respect for Ricco, at least he fessed up, even if he couldn't care less and just went straight back to it."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
RichN95 wrote:I believe that what you think about a returning doping is primarily dictated by what you thought about them before they got caught.
Largely yeah, but there are exceptions. I like Basso a lot more now than I ever did in his CSC days.
I used to be quite a fan of Vino until his whole "I didnt do anything! You can't ban me, I'm retiring! Now I'm coming back!" thing."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Tell you what though, I find it hard for doping stuff to affect my feelings towards riders when I see them race on the road.0
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Yeah I loved Vino before he was caught, and now I just can't warm to him again. David Millar I never really cared for, but I've come to like him more in the last few years.
Maybe the ones you love the most also hurt you the most.0 -
Turfle wrote:Yeah I loved Vino before he was caught, and now I just can't warm to him again. David Millar I never really cared for, but I've come to like him more in the last few years.
Maybe the ones you love the most also hurt you the most.
THis again for me - I found it very hard to watch Contado in the Giro or the Tour last year (lucklily he didnt featutre much in the Tour. If Valverde or Vino wins a stage/race I don't like it. I'd rather anyone else had won the Olympic RR - even and Aussie FFS!
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Turfle wrote:Yeah I loved Vino before he was caught, and now I just can't warm to him again. David Millar I never really cared for, but I've come to like him more in the last few years.
Maybe the ones you love the most also hurt you the most.
So true (and Rick's post immediately above).
Ah, the foul rag and bone shop of the heart.0 -
RichN95 wrote:I believe that what you think about a returning doping is primarily dictated by what you thought about them before they got caught.
Possibly. I used to like Contador. Thought he was an honest, likeable person. But over the past couple of years I just now think of him as a cheating scum bag that got lucky that he wasn't busted properly.0 -
Having a read through his comments in the clinic.
Still can't get my head around someone like that getting involved either on an internet forum or twitter.
I know I do both, and it's a little pot kettle black, but I have no public profile whatsoever - and I do it under a pseudonym anyway.
I can't see where he gains. I know everyone wants to be loved, and it can be difficult if you read all the guff people like me write in public, either on forums or twitter, but surely he'd be better off leaving it be?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Having a read through his comments in the clinic.
Still can't get my head around someone like that getting involved either on an internet forum or twitter.
I know I do both, and it's a little pot kettle black, but I have no public profile whatsoever - and I do it under a pseudonym anyway.
I can't see where he gains. I know everyone wants to be loved, and it can be difficult if you read all the guff people like me write in public, either on forums or twitter, but surely he'd be better off leaving it be?
Maybe he sees them as platforms to effectively convey his message?
I know that he gets annoyed by people who blanketly condemn everyone that has doped. I think he finds a more interactive platform easier to deal with people's questions etc and get that point across.0 -
Roscobob wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Having a read through his comments in the clinic.
Still can't get my head around someone like that getting involved either on an internet forum or twitter.
I know I do both, and it's a little pot kettle black, but I have no public profile whatsoever - and I do it under a pseudonym anyway.
I can't see where he gains. I know everyone wants to be loved, and it can be difficult if you read all the guff people like me write in public, either on forums or twitter, but surely he'd be better off leaving it be?
Maybe he sees them as platforms to effectively convey his message?
I know that he gets annoyed by people who blanketly condemn everyone that has doped. I think he finds a more interactive platform easier to deal with people's questions etc and get that point across.
I know, but the internet?
Why not a physical Q&A somewhere in New York or something?
We all hide behind pseudonyms and spout guff because it can't bounce back on us.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Roscobob wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Having a read through his comments in the clinic.
Still can't get my head around someone like that getting involved either on an internet forum or twitter.
I know I do both, and it's a little pot kettle black, but I have no public profile whatsoever - and I do it under a pseudonym anyway.
I can't see where he gains. I know everyone wants to be loved, and it can be difficult if you read all the guff people like me write in public, either on forums or twitter, but surely he'd be better off leaving it be?
Maybe he sees them as platforms to effectively convey his message?
I know that he gets annoyed by people who blanketly condemn everyone that has doped. I think he finds a more interactive platform easier to deal with people's questions etc and get that point across.
I know, but the internet?
Why not a physical Q&A somewhere in New York or something?
We all hide behind pseudonyms and spout guff because it can't bounce back on us.
Because he can do this on the move? I dunno - tweet him :P0 -
You have a public profile - Daniel Friebe reTweeted from a certain Rick Chasey about Montage, Olympic closing ceremony ..... You're famousRick Chasey wrote:Having a read through his comments in the clinic.
Still can't get my head around someone like that getting involved either on an internet forum or twitter.
I know I do both, and it's a little pot kettle black, but I have no public profile whatsoever - and I do it under a pseudonym anyway.
I can't see where he gains. I know everyone wants to be loved, and it can be difficult if you read all the guff people like me write in public, either on forums or twitter, but surely he'd be better off leaving it be?
On topic maybe he just feels he gets his point over in hid own words.0 -
dougzz wrote:
You have a public profile - Daniel Friebe reTweeted from a certain Rick Chasey about Montage, Olympic closing ceremony ..... You're famousRick Chasey wrote:Having a read through his comments in the clinic.
Still can't get my head around someone like that getting involved either on an internet forum or twitter.
I know I do both, and it's a little pot kettle black, but I have no public profile whatsoever - and I do it under a pseudonym anyway.
I can't see where he gains. I know everyone wants to be loved, and it can be difficult if you read all the guff people like me write in public, either on forums or twitter, but surely he'd be better off leaving it be?
On topic maybe he just feels he gets his point over in hid own words.
Pfft. Copy cats.
You see what I'm getting at right? It's hardly the place for rational debate. It's just a lot of people who have time on their hands when infront of a computer.0 -
maybe he's be better off on a forum where the usuals have a higher IQ and aren't totally obsessed with doping0
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I just read the thread in the clinic, and while I think it's great that Vaughters interacts with fans about doping (and really every other issue related to cycling), but it is utterly pointless doing it on that forum. There are maybe 5 people in there who are interested in what JV says, and another 995 interested in deciding for themselves what JV probably was trying to say - and usually they decide he's saying Sky are dirty as sin.0
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The main thing with Vaughters' comments to me is that they seem to go through the rationale of how he/people get caught up in doping, and how he wants to move forward, and the sorries (a bit).
BUT... what id like to hear is a full run down of the doping regime, day in day out what substances were being done, shedding more light on it for casual readers of what drugs were being used, when, on what schedule, the methods and knowledge on how to get round the testing when needed, all described.
These descriptions are what are missing in the confessions from most dopers for me.0 -
mfin wrote:The main thing with Vaughters' comments to me is that they seem to go through the rationale of how he/people get caught up in doping, and how he wants to move forward, and the sorries (a bit).
BUT... what id like to hear is a full run down of the doping regime, day in day out what substances were being done, shedding more light on it for casual readers of what drugs were being used, when, on what schedule, the methods and knowledge on how to get round the testing when needed, all described.
These descriptions are what are missing in the confessions from most dopers for me.
Thomas Dekker gets a lot of sh!t for this.
He 'fessed up to everything apart from how he got hold of it and who, if anyone, helped him do it.
He's quite clear about it - he'll talk about everything but that.0 -
mfin wrote:The main thing with Vaughters' comments to me is that they seem to go through the rationale of how he/people get caught up in doping, and how he wants to move forward, and the sorries (a bit).
BUT... what id like to hear is a full run down of the doping regime, day in day out what substances were being done, shedding more light on it for casual readers of what drugs were being used, when, on what schedule, the methods and knowledge on how to get round the testing when needed, all described.
These descriptions are what are missing in the confessions from most dopers for me.
Isn't that just voyeurism on your part?"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:mfin wrote:The main thing with Vaughters' comments to me is that they seem to go through the rationale of how he/people get caught up in doping, and how he wants to move forward, and the sorries (a bit).
BUT... what id like to hear is a full run down of the doping regime, day in day out what substances were being done, shedding more light on it for casual readers of what drugs were being used, when, on what schedule, the methods and knowledge on how to get round the testing when needed, all described.
These descriptions are what are missing in the confessions from most dopers for me.
Isn't that just voyeurism on your part?
No, I don't think so, I think it should be very public what they have been up to. Get the secrets and the knowledge out in the open air. Myself Id greatly respect anyone who does this as against just admitting theyve doped, with not much detail, and then going straight for the emotional side of it all from their point of view (and that's because I think most of us accept the pressures to dope that have been around by now.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:mfin wrote:The main thing with Vaughters' comments to me is that they seem to go through the rationale of how he/people get caught up in doping, and how he wants to move forward, and the sorries (a bit).
BUT... what id like to hear is a full run down of the doping regime, day in day out what substances were being done, shedding more light on it for casual readers of what drugs were being used, when, on what schedule, the methods and knowledge on how to get round the testing when needed, all described.
These descriptions are what are missing in the confessions from most dopers for me.
Thomas Dekker gets a lot of sh!t for this.
He 'fessed up to everything apart from how he got hold of it and who, if anyone, helped him do it.
He's quite clear about it - he'll talk about everything but that.
Any good links on this information?? Im genuinely interested.0
