Vaughters
Comments
-
A very brave, and well balanced article. JV is being (rightly) applauded on Twitter for coming clean.
Will be interesting to see the response from certain quarters, of course...
Andy0 -
good article.
I totally see why people would. Dope = podium, clean = respect but an also ran.
Boardman couldn't sustain the entirety of the TDF clean, only the first few TT's etc. That was very telling. I saw the prologue of the 98 TDF in Ireland.
Let's hope the non doping policies work for the future.Peter0 -
I would still like to know whether he has done this because he genuinely wanted to come clean or because he knows that the Armstrong case is going to drag up some dirt on him.
I'm a big fan of Vaughters and think he's been a breath of fresh air for Pro Cycling, but i'm not sure I can accept this as some sort of heroic gesture, when it comes 10 years after he retired."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
I think these confessions are part of USDA's plan of action. I find it intriguing that we now discover Landis talked with USDA before sending that email to the UCI.
Seems to be that lots of scenarios and responses have been formulated, USDA are holding the trump cards and waiting for the other players to show their hands.--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
I doubt it's part of a USADA plan. I think Vaughters is desperate to see Armstrong brought to justice though and he's done this for the cause.andrewjoseph wrote:I think these confessions are part of USDA's plan of action. I find it intriguing that we now discover Landis talked with USDA before sending that email to the UCI.
Seems to be that lots of scenarios and responses have been formulated, USDA are holding the trump cards and waiting for the other players to show their hands.0 -
good article and nice that he comes clean but again it's light on detail. So did he dope at Postal and was he part of a conspiracy backed up by the UCI to have the whole team doped0
-
I thought that was more to do with his hormone deficiency.DF33 wrote:Boardman couldn't sustain the entirety of the TDF clean, only the first few TT's etc. That was very telling. I saw the prologue of the 98 TDF in Ireland.0 -
DeadCalm wrote:
I doubt it's part of a USADA plan. I think Vaughters is desperate to see Armstrong brought to justice though and he's done this for the cause.andrewjoseph wrote:I think these confessions are part of USDA's plan of action. I find it intriguing that we now discover Landis talked with USDA before sending that email to the UCI.
Seems to be that lots of scenarios and responses have been formulated, USDA are holding the trump cards and waiting for the other players to show their hands.
Really? In my experience, people usually only spill the beans when they need to in order to save themselves or their reputations.
If he was desperate to see Armstrong brought to justice why didn't he admit it years ago?
Before all the Vaughters fanboys descend on my house with pitchforks, I like the guy and I like Garmin, I just think we need to be careful to elevate him as some sacred being."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
inkyfingers wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
I doubt it's part of a USADA plan. I think Vaughters is desperate to see Armstrong brought to justice though and he's done this for the cause.andrewjoseph wrote:I think these confessions are part of USDA's plan of action. I find it intriguing that we now discover Landis talked with USDA before sending that email to the UCI.
Seems to be that lots of scenarios and responses have been formulated, USDA are holding the trump cards and waiting for the other players to show their hands.
Really? In my experience, people usually only spill the beans when they need to in order to save themselves or their reputations.
If he was desperate to see Armstrong brought to justice why didn't he admit it years ago?
Before all the Vaughters fanboys descend on my house with pitchforks, I like the guy and I like Garmin, I just think we need to be careful to elevate him as some sacred being.
He's been conducting a slow striptease for years, culminating two weeks ago with his confession on twitter
viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12869329
I'm not really surprised he didn't do it earlier, he could have jeopardised the whole Garmin project. I don't think he wanted to go round with a dirty secret, but he didn't have a lot of choice given what he was trying to do.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
sherer wrote:good article and nice that he comes clean but again it's light on detail. So did he dope at Postal and was he part of a conspiracy backed up by the UCI to have the whole team doped
Yes, it raises a lot of questions we can guess the answers to, but they're pretty much sub judice at the moment.
Got to leave something for the autobiography as well... :-)Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Maybe there's an element of getting his side of the story out first but I do think he has genuine motives as well. Do you walk out on a 500,000 Euro contract if you are purely motivated by self-interest?inkyfingers wrote:Really? In my experience, people usually only spill the beans when they need to in order to save themselves or their reputations.
If he was desperate to see Armstrong brought to justice why didn't he admit it years ago?
Before all the Vaughters fanboys descend on my house with pitchforks, I like the guy and I like Garmin, I just think we need to be careful to elevate him as some sacred being.
I don't think the timing of this article (as USADA are struggling in their case) is a coincidence. And look at the fundamental message of the piece, that cyclists "must know, without doubt, that they will have a fair chance by racing clean. And for them to do that, the rules must be enforced, and the painful effort to make that happen must be unending and ruthless". It's pretty clear to me, given the current situation, just what the sub-text of that statement is.0 -
You feel sorry that likely so many riders have had to make that choice and you have to admire JV for creating that team where it isn't an issue and for speaking out.
At the end of the day though, it is still a choice and it still a matter of morals. I mean I would never cheat my taxes or anything like that to advance in life and increase my wealth, even if it was easy to do.
Also it is interesting to note the view of people on here towards some dopers and others. It seems that if you are from the US and a few other places (maybe even Bel) it doesn't matter you doped in the past. But if you are from Spain or Italy then you are awful.
The amont of training and dedication to become a pro is borderline insane. Once again demonstrating why these athletes are the best and truest in the World.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Don't know what he has said in the Lance case but this is, in fact, yet again lightweight in details. He even admitted doping a couple of years ago so that's not that big of a news.0
-
DeadCalm wrote:
I don't think the timing of this article (as USADA are struggling in their case) is a coincidence.
Que? They're not struggling at all
If you look at the USPS case that's going on, Armstrong has to enter his "plea" soon. That's what he's trying to delay at the moment - But it will all come out when that happens, so yes, Vaughters knows the timing but I don't think it's got anything to do with USADA.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
He was over at the Asylum (as JV1973) taking questions and plenty of abuse just before and after the article was published as well. One thing he was asked about whether he tells new signings to Garmin about what LA is really like (in reference to pro-LA blog posts and tweets riders like Phinney and Talansky had made which were subsequently deleted). This then led to a question about the pro-LA/anti-Landis comments Wiggins gave to the press after Floyd went public. Vaughters' reply was:
"Yes, that was a statement not in touch with reality, at all. Agreed."
and:
"While I admire Brad as an athlete, I can tell you he was a nightmare to work with and certainly did not listen to much advice I gave him...beyond 'wow, brad, most of your power produced in a 4 minute pursuit is via aerobic metabolism...that's unique...You could be a stage racer'
And that's where Brad and I stopped."0 -
DeadCalm wrote:I hope you are right but that's not how I read it at all. As I understand it LA is claiming that USADA don't have jurisdiction. If he wins that then, subject to appeal, it's potentially game over.
Won't happen. If I may quote from another thread:iainf72 wrote:- WADA have confirmed USADA are the right org to be dealing with this
- Sparks has asked why they can't just do the arbitration thing
- This whole "I've not seen the evidence" thing is nonsense. When does that happen ever in the real world? They say "how do you plead", you tell 'em, then they present their evidence. Simples.
If USADA were stopped doing this case, it effectively puts the USA at risk of being excluded from the olympics. They signed up to certain requirements and if they don't meet those, no olympics. It would take a lot to get there but there are more powerful forces at work here.
Andy0 -
Why do you put 'Andy' at the end of all your posts?Contador is the Greatest0
-
And to quote my reply on that same thread...ratherbeintobago wrote:DeadCalm wrote:I hope you are right but that's not how I read it at all. As I understand it LA is claiming that USADA don't have jurisdiction. If he wins that then, subject to appeal, it's potentially game over.
Won't happen. If I may quote from another thread:iainf72 wrote:- WADA have confirmed USADA are the right org to be dealing with this
- Sparks has asked why they can't just do the arbitration thing
- This whole "I've not seen the evidence" thing is nonsense. When does that happen ever in the real world? They say "how do you plead", you tell 'em, then they present their evidence. Simples.
If USADA were stopped doing this case, it effectively puts the USA at risk of being excluded from the olympics. They signed up to certain requirements and if they don't meet those, no olympics. It would take a lot to get there but there are more powerful forces at work here.
AndyDeadCalm wrote:
Not true. In most legal jurisdictions based on the British adversarial system there are rules of discovery meaning that the defendant will be told all details of the charges against him before the trial. As I understand it, this is Armstrong's point and USADA are saying that these don't apply and there are separate rules which Armstrong as signed up to.iainf72 wrote:- This whole "I've not seen the evidence" thing is nonsense. When does that happen ever in the real world? They say "how do you plead", you tell 'em, then they present their evidence. Simples.
Unlikely I would have thought. More likely that cycling may be excluded.iainf72 wrote:If USADA were stopped doing this case, it effectively puts the USA at risk of being excluded from the olympics.
I agree that the ramifications of Sparks granting the injunction are potentially enormous but he won't (or shouldn't) take that into account. I really hope the injunction is denied but I think we are at a really critical phase in the whole process and anyone who is confident that it will be is being blindly optimistic.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Why do you put 'Andy' at the end of all your posts?
Why not? If I'm committing some great faux pas I shall stop...
Andy0 -
Nothing wrong with it - you can of course do it if you like. I was just curious as hardly anyone else does it and I dont see the point.Contador is the Greatest0
-
frenchfighter wrote:Nothing wrong with it - you can of course do it if you like. I was just curious as hardly anyone else does it and I dont see the point.
Think it's a forum-dependent thing - it's more prevalent in some others I'm on.
Andy0 -
ratherbeintobago wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Nothing wrong with it - you can of course do it if you like. I was just curious as hardly anyone else does it and I dont see the point.
Think it's a forum-dependent thing - it's more prevalent in some others I'm on.
Andy
Quite common on forums where user-names are made up but users want to project that they are actually real people.
I'm not a real person though, I'm a figment of my own imagination, so I don't.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Is it because Andy is his name?
RATS x0 -
I've been away for three weeks. Has anything happened in the sporting world? Can someone point me in the right direction so that I can catch up as I feel a little lost?0
-
ratsbeyfus wrote:I've been away for three weeks. Has anything happened in the sporting world? Can someone point me in the right direction so that I can catch up as I feel a little lost?
Main headline I've spotted, from a British perspective:
'Young Ieysaa bin-Suhayl won a Bronze Medal in the Under-8 section of the European Union Youth Chess Championships in Mureck, Austria'
Other than that it's been a typically quiet start to August.0 -
OCDuPalais wrote:ratsbeyfus wrote:I've been away for three weeks. Has anything happened in the sporting world? Can someone point me in the right direction so that I can catch up as I feel a little lost?
Main headline I've spotted, from a British perspective:
'Young Ieysaa bin-Suhayl won a Bronze Medal in the Under-8 section of the European Union Youth Chess Championships in Mureck, Austria'
Other than that it's been a typically quiet start to August.
Cool for her! I guess she's a shoe-in for SPOTY then.0 -
DF33 wrote:Boardman couldn't sustain the entirety of the TDF clean, only the first few TT's etc. That was very telling. I saw the prologue of the 98 TDF in Ireland.
Going OP really but I've read that the original reason cited for Boardman not being able to recover in GTs was due to low testosterone levels. Now whether they were low to start with or whether they were diminished due to the consecutive day racing, or both, I don't know. More recently we're being told it was more to do with his competitors either being on EPO or getting fresh blood. Maybe at the time he just didn't want to rock the boat - I don't ever remember him talking about the playing field not being level due to doping.0 -
JV has been posting in the Asylum recently (as mentioned earlier in the thread)
Here's what he said last night so you don't have to break your sanity searching through it
Not sure who I'm supposed to reply to. You guys get going pretty fast...
Anyhow, thanks for the support. For those of you less supportive, not really sure what to say? I guess wait 5 yrs and see how it all comes out?
As for those with specific questions:
Me, in the past, saying the sport was cleaner (2006)... Yes, it was. 2006 was cleaner than 2002... 2002 was cleaner than 2000...1997 was cleaner than 1996... 1996 was errr... pretty much the peak. Sorry if I couldn't convey that at the time. The overall blood data I have seen as a UCI anti-doping funding committee board member shows the overall trend quite clearly. I know that data is not public. Sorry, I can't leak it to the clinic. What's more amazing is if you take average times of top 30 guys up any key climb, note the % slowdown, adjust for bikes being a little lighter, etc, you can track it almost exactly to the hemoglobin mass decreasing in the overall peloton data. Of course, exceptions exist, but the mean is quite convincing.
I tend to focus on the mean or median, as opposed to saying "yeah, but what about this guy or that guy!!"... But I have more access to information than most, so perhaps that's why? Even though the trend was towards less and less doping from 1997>>> 2006, sadly, I'd say that the reaction of doping only made those still willing to risk even more efficacious. But the overall was getting cleaner. The numbers prove that (and again, i apologize I can't show you the numbers..Not sure why UCI doesn't just release them??)
Allan Lim: It pains me to defend this guy. I am not a fan. Nor a friend. However, you guys should ask Floyd as to what his exact involvement was with him on the medical level. I did, after Floyd tested positive. Floyd said "listen, he didn't have a part in that stuff with me, you should hire him full time, so he doesn't get wrapped up in my downfall" (paraphrasing)... So, since I knew Allan, and knew he was a very smart guy, I went with it. I'm a big one on guys not getting railroaded, unfairly. During his time with us, he was a huge proponent of clean racing. When we implemented the no needles policy in 2008, he was the most in favor (even more than Prentice!).. He argued that from a strictly scientific standpoint, there was no need for injectable recovery. He rebuilt his reputation with our team. I think he forgets that...
When Radio Shack came with big money, he left without any hesitation. I have not spoken to him since.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
