Group riding etiquette
Comments
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I don't think 20 riders in a line is problem, I manage to over take various groups of wiggo/fromedog wannabe's in the work van if we've gone out BoxHill way, yes sure some times you catch up with a group on a climb with blind bends and what not, so you have to wait, so be it.
Very few if any club choose main routes for club runs, problem is for most part folks ineptitude at performing a overtake.0 -
richh wrote:
Completely agree, and exactly the same thing happened to me this weekend. Two groups were merged and even though I averaged nearly 18mph over two hours I was constantly off the back and often out of sight of the main group. Only once did the leader drop back to help me out (which was much appreciated) but for the rest of the time it was only because the main group eventually stopped did I catch up, except that as soon as I did they headed off again so I didn't get any rest and was straight off the back and out of sight once more.Mikey23 wrote:I was in this position the other day with my first ride for a local club. The website blurb said there would be a slowest group and a slightly quicker group so I went in the expectation of going with that slowest group, learning some group riding skills and doing a distance and a pace that I was comfortable with. I get there and the two groups have been combined and are going at a quicker pace than anticipated meaning that I was trailing the back, struggling to keep up, and had riders protecting and encouraging me. Therefore the peloton was spread over quite a distance and had to constantly stop to regroup. Ok, no real probs and it worked ok, made me a little vulnerable. I got the impression that there were lots of opinionated people there who were mainly concerned about their own ridebut not many who were actually prepared to help
It seems to me that if cycling is going to increase in popularity and noobs are going to turn up in clubs, sometimes randomly, ill prepared and unfit then there is an increasing need for experienced riders to step up and take responsibility on club nights
It's fair enough if faster riders want to ride in a fast group but if two groups get merged it doesn't give a particularly good impression to newbies to effectively be left to ride on their own as the fast riders effectively continue at their fast pace. The new guys may as well have gone for a ride on their own in the first place rather than to be made to feel like they aren't good enough to participate or that they are inconveniencing other riders.
It was my first club ride and to be honest it's put me off going back. I'll probably give it another go but if it's the same next time I doubt I'll be back after that.
That said, I really did enjoy riding in a group at those times when I was a part of it, so perhaps it's just a case of finding the right club.
Just pick the right club
Chorley Cycling club have a Intro ride every 2nd Saturday which does what it says on the tin.
The Intro ride is designed to get people used to riding with a group. It is asked that the people can maintain 12mph but even when some newbies haven't managed that we have done the ride at 10mph. While this pace is a wee bit frustrating we all know that's the point of the ride & the fast lads can go and do some more miles after the Intro has finished.
The new riders are taught which calls to give for cars up/down, point out hazards, keep formation & single out when needed. They are also given a wee go on the front if they feel confident.
The 27 mile ride has a cafe stop so the new riders can have a chat with everyone & learn the most important skills..Coffee & Cake
Dont assume all clubs are the same but unless you ask you'll never know.0 -
Which club? Plymouth based?
my last grp ride in SE Cornwall involved abuse from drivers, moronic cyclists and the Police being involved - never again
some clubs need to look at the larger picture and organise rides into more traffic friendly grps and enforce their own rider etiquette rules.0 -
If that happened to me I would've sodded off on my own ride. If a club publishes a minimum speed for a ride then they should be prepared to stick to it - if all the riders are happy to ride faster then fair enough.richh wrote:even though I averaged nearly 18mph over two hours I was constantly off the back and often out of sight of the main group. Only once did the leader drop back to help me out (which was much appreciated) but for the rest of the time it was only because the main group eventually stopped did I catch up, except that as soon as I did they headed off again so I didn't get any rest and was straight off the back and out of sight once more.
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It was my first club ride and to be honest it's put me off going back. I'll probably give it another go but if it's the same next time I doubt I'll be back after that.
That said, I really did enjoy riding in a group at those times when I was a part of it, so perhaps it's just a case of finding the right club.
Yup - looks like it's a case of finding the right club ...
btw - I'm a solo rider - I don't belong to a club - because one seems quite engrossed in racing (fair enough) and the other is massive, I've seen them out and don't think I'd want to be part of a group that rides like that!0 -
Plymouth based ...0
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roger merriman wrote:I don't think 20 riders in a line is problem, I manage to over take various groups of wiggo/fromedog wannabe's in the work van if we've gone out BoxHill way, yes sure some times you catch up with a group on a climb with blind bends and what not, so you have to wait, so be it.
Very few if any club choose main routes for club runs, problem is for most part folks ineptitude at performing a overtake.
Sorry roger but you are wrong. As someone has already said a spread out group is like overtaking 3 arctic lorry's in a row, Even if I had a Ferrari there would have been nowhere to overtake in one go on the roads around here.
Interestingly the group we had trouble with was Plymouth based0 -
Dartmooron wrote:roger merriman wrote:I don't think 20 riders in a line is problem, I manage to over take various groups of wiggo/fromedog wannabe's in the work van if we've gone out BoxHill way, yes sure some times you catch up with a group on a climb with blind bends and what not, so you have to wait, so be it.
Very few if any club choose main routes for club runs, problem is for most part folks ineptitude at performing a overtake.
Sorry roger but you are wrong. As someone has already said a spread out group is like overtaking 3 arctic lorry's in a row, Even if I had a Ferrari there would have been nowhere to overtake in one go on the roads around here.
Interestingly the group we had trouble with was Plymouth based
No, it's nothing like overtaking 3 artics as an artic is around 2.5m wide and you therefore struggle to see past it. It's strange how many experienced cyclists on here have ridden for years in large groups without any problems and yet newcomers go out and decide it's unsafe to do so. I drive over 30k miles a year and can honestly say I have never been held up behind a group of cyclists and failed to make the time back after passing. I have however lost a lot of time behind artics so maybe they should all move over and get out of my way hey?0 -
I am new to this forum but not new to cycling, I have been riding for 25 years and with clubs for 20 of them, I intended to post this question in road general but obviously pressed a wrong button. I have learnt from this thread that there are some unfriendly sorts in the wider cycling fraternity but to those that have tried to help answer my original question thank you.0
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Go for a Sunday ride with RuTT CC mate - its totally different - just check the fb page first to make sure its happening.0
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Thanks mamba 80. I might give them a go.0
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Dartmooron wrote:I am new to this forum but not new to cycling, I have been riding for 25 years and with clubs for 20 of them, I intended to post this question in road general but obviously pressed a wrong button. I have learnt from this thread that there are some unfriendly sorts in the wider cycling fraternity but to those that have tried to help answer my original question thank you.
So anyone who disagrees with your point of view is unfriendly?0 -
to the op, how can you describe 20 riders spread over several hundred meters grou riding?
Group riding would have been two abreast riding controlled.
When I ride with local group we ride two abreast mostly in lanes, if we hear car behind we call out single file, ride in a line and let them pass, no problem, but sometimes we get typical abuse, usually from wannabe racing drivers in expensive cars and often 4x4's shout abuse and cut in early.0 -
OK, first up apologies to the OP if my previous replies have come across as unfriendly. However, I have seen numerous similar threads over the past few years often from people new to the sport trying to tell those who have been riding in groups for years that they are in the wrong (should ride in single file to avoid holding up cars, should ride in smaller groups etc. etc.).
I would agree that there seems to have been a deterioration in group riding skills over the last few years. In part I believe this is down to the number of riders going out in informal groups with no-one organising them but I have also seen clubs with riders all over the place (I recently encountered a club run of a few local clubs merged that had several groups of 30+ riders and were all over the place). My own club runs tend to be quite small these days but we used to regularly have 20 - 30 riders and very rarely got hassle of drivers and the roads around here are probably very similar to those in the Dartmoor area (which I will be riding over the next couple of weeks). We ride two abreast as a general rule but keep everything tight so shoulder to shoulder and no more than a wheel apart. If there are cars behind that are struggling to overtake we will make the decision to single out and allow them to pass when appropriate but generally try to avoid this for the very reason that it makes the line twice as long to pass - drivers often think that riding two abreast is making it more difficult for them to overtake but in reality it is often easier. In exceptional cases on very narrow single track lanes where passing is difficult we will pull in at the first available passing place to let any vehicles pass but anyone driving on those sorts of roads will usually accept they aren't going to go very fast.
From your description of the group in the OP of 20 odd riders taking up 200-300m of road if barely sounds like group riding. Each rider would be taking up 10m or more which is more the sort of thing you get on events such as charity rides or sportives with larger numbers of riders but not riding as actual groups. As I have said above the analogy of passing 20 riders in line being like passing 3 artics in line is not really true. For a start the length would be more akin to passing two artics (16.5m each with a gap between), the height and width difference makes seeing the road ahead easier and the car has to overtake something moving at 15 - 20mph rather than 40mph or more.
For me it is driver attitudes that need to be looked at, I have ridden on club runs in France where there have been groups of 50+ and the ride leader would stop traffic at junctions yet drivers do not give them any hassle and the only time you hear a horn is in encouragement. However, the key is for groups to keep in a tight and disciplined formation - loose, disorganised groups are the menace. It should also be in the hands of the group to use common sense and change formation as required to avoid unnecessarily delaying people but this has to be done with a consideration of what is safest for the group as well.0 -
Apology appreciated.
I have probably not explained the situation very well. What I can say for certain is we came up behind a long group of cyclists wearing club shirts, they were stretched out as far as we could see in a disorganized way. They were not riding closely to each other but the gaps were not large enough for a text book overtake. We overtook on a slow two way road. When we had passed maybe half the group a car came in the other direction slowly (probably expecting traffic on there side of the road) and to enable them to pass we gently eased to the left. This was not a foolhardy lunge past a tidy Sunday ride. When I first road with a club there was never any issues as we were only 8-10 riders strong on a good day. I then did not ride with a club again until recently and was struck buy the number of new riders and the problems that sometimes occur when cars are trying to pass long spread out large groups of cyclists. I am not a perfect motorist nor am I the finest group cyclist but I just wanted to know how other groups and clubs deal with having large group rides.0 -
Our Club normally has 85 to 100 people turn up for a Club Run.
We split it into groups of no more than about 16.
We try and keep the group tight together and if a car needs to get past and can do so safely, we shout "single up" to allow space.
We try to treat other road users courteously and in doing so often get treated that way in return. Recently we had a comment from a car driver that we were the politest cyclists he had seen.
This also helps the reputation of the Club when, as occassionaly happens, a member needs to report a car driver to the police for careless or dangerous driving.
Pretty simple and basic stuff really, treat others as you would have them treat you.17 years commuting up and down the King\'s Road and i still don\'t get faster...0
