Amateur doper story

frenchfighter

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/ ... hgh_232611

iainf72

It's well worth reading.

disgruntledgoat

It just screamed "more money than sense"

I don't even understand his motivation. Or why USADA send testers to sportives, although that seems to justify it.

It's a pretty sad story and you do feel that he has nothing else in his life.

dirtymonkey1985

I've been waiting to read an interview with this guy. Just so I can see where he was coming from

rozzer32

disgruntledgoat wrote:

It just screamed "more money than sense"

I don't even understand his motivation. Or why USADA send testers to sportives, although that seems to justify it.

It's a pretty sad story and you do feel that he has nothing else in his life.

There was an article on the home page about it. Basically they were giving out prizes and the total prize costs added up to over $100,000 so due to law by either US Cycling or the USADA there had to be testing performed

afx237vi

dirtymonkey1985 wrote:

I've been waiting to read an interview with this guy. Just so I can see where he was coming from

After reading the article, I'm none the wiser.

$1k a month on dope, a coach, sessions in a wind tunnel... I think disgruntledgoat hit the nail on the head.

dave_1

it's the first time I've read such insight into the transformation of a rider by HGH and EPO. Cat 5 to Cat 2 and a strong Cat 2...shows how awesomely powerful those two drugs are. Hope he recovers and returns to the bike..not such a bad guy

shockedsoshocked

Dave_1 wrote:

it's the first time I've read such insight into the transformation of a rider by HGH and EPO. Cat 5 to Cat 2 and a strong Cat 2...shows how awesomely powerful those two drugs are. Hope he recovers and returns to the bike..not such a bad guy

He didn't say sorry and do a big cry though

mattshrops

Wonder if thats the tip of the iceberg?

Interesting that if he'd taken his last dose 2 days earlier he'd have come up clean(apparently?)
Maybe he should have wasted some of his ocd researching that?

We all want to improve but not like that.

shockedsoshocked

mattshrops wrote:

Wonder if thats the tip of the iceberg?

Interesting that if he'd taken his last dose 2 days earlier he'd have come up clean(apparently?)
Maybe he should have wasted some of his ocd researching that?

We all want to improve but not like that.

I could turn up to any local RR regardless of the categories racing and could probably point at a few people. Daft lads in gyms are doing it, so why not in road racing?

LeicesterLad

Cheers Frenchie, enjoyed that, still don't really know what to make of him though!

OffTheBackAdam

If someone's got the money for a £5K bike, to ride in a "Fish and Chipper", it's not a great surprise that they'll go as far as doping.

disgruntledgoat

I agree Adam... but it just seems so bizarre. At 40 years of age, you've no chance of starting a pro career, the best you can hope for is to make a name on the masters circuit and that's not going to make you a living of the order of recouping all your dope and windtunnel costs.

It looks, from the quotes and the allusions in the narrative, like a guy who has a weak sense of self and his built his whole identity around a hobby that he's found late in life.

Le Commentateur

I thought "obsessive" type with self-esteem issues, but then people don't always go to such extremes. It's an expensive form of narcissistic supply. The bike-retail industry does a lot to fuel such delusional thinking in the way they market their products though. Look how many people are "wearing" expensive bikes at sportives.

davidof

There certainly seem to be a few doped ex-pros riding sportifs
http://www.trainingloops.com/bikes-drug ... rtives.htm

but where drug tests have been conducted they seem to have netted a few amateur too. Is it really true that EPO cannot be detected after 7 days?

iainf72

davidof wrote:

There certainly seem to be a few doped ex-pros riding sportifs
http://www.trainingloops.com/bikes-drug ... rtives.htm

but where drug tests have been conducted they seem to have netted a few amateur too. Is it really true that EPO cannot be detected after 7 days?

I'm not professional,but I could tell you how to take EPO so it wouldn't show up in a test less than a day later.

No_Ta_Doctor

Le Commentateur wrote:

I thought "obsessive" type with self-esteem issues, but then people don't always go to such extremes. It's an expensive form of narcissistic supply. The bike-retail industry does a lot to fuel such delusional thinking in the way they market their products though. Look how many people are "wearing" expensive bikes at sportives.

That's the nail hit firmly on the head. He wasn't doing it for the cycling, he was doing it for what the cycling could do for him.

Jez mon

iainf72 wrote:

davidof wrote:

There certainly seem to be a few doped ex-pros riding sportifs
http://www.trainingloops.com/bikes-drug ... rtives.htm

but where drug tests have been conducted they seem to have netted a few amateur too. Is it really true that EPO cannot be detected after 7 days?

I'm not professional,but I could tell you how to take EPO so it wouldn't show up in a test less than a day later.

Indeed, one wonders how much research he did do. I mean, whilst I can't tell you off hand how to take EPO and stand a good chance of not getting caught, I do know there are various methods.

Can anyone on here tell me how the American cats compare to the UK ones? Is the American amateur scene stronger? I mean, a strong UK 2nd cat is a fairly impressive cyclist, (probably not a stage I'd be able to get to if I started racing again!) but doping to become a strong 2nd cat!?

Tom BB

I may be wrong but don't US cats go 1-5 in comparison to our E-4 or is that in France?!

knedlicky

Le Commentateur wrote:

I thought "obsessive" type with self-esteem issues, but then people don't always go to such extremes.

disgruntledgoat wrote:

It's a pretty sad story and you do feel that he has nothing else in his life.

Going overboard in a new interest, to extent this guy does, strikes me as a trait found more often in America than Europe, while the amounts of money he gave out suggest he is without responsibilities, if not a loner.

To think of hormone replacement therapy as a way of making a level playing field, because his more-aged body wouldn’t any longer be producing hormones in the same range or quantity as his younger rivals, is probably an argument other riders or athletes might accept or may even apply to themselves.

knedlicky

Tom BB wrote:

I may be wrong but don't US cats go 1-5 in comparison to our E-4 or is that in France?!

I think France only has categories 1-3, if you don't include all the other licences they have - like for youths of different ages, for recreational and commuter cyclists (you can get a cyclosportive licence; it avoids the bother of a medical certificate each time and occasionally gets a discount on entry fee), etc, etc.

knedlicky

rozzer32 wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

I don't even understand his motivation. Or why USADA send testers to sportives, although that seems to justify it.

There was an article on the home page about it. Basically they were giving out prizes and the total prize costs added up to over $100,000 so due to law by either US Cycling or the USADA there had to be testing performed

Testing at a Gran Fondo/Sportive isn’t totally unusual, it’s sometimes done at these type of events in France, Italy, Switzerland and Austria, and they don't have prizes of any large value.

Often in the small print of the registration form there are sentences along the lines of:
“It is not allowed to take performance-enhancing drugs as listed in the National Antidoping Rules. Competitors may be tested for drugs. A non-appearance at, or a refusal to do, a drugs test will be considered as a positive test. Competitors found positive will not be listed in the results and not be permitted to take part in the event in future years”.

Unless one is a professional or a licenced rider, that’s the most any organiser can do, because there aren’t rules saying if a non-licenced hobby cyclist dopes, it’s a punishable offence.
But when it comes to professionals and licenced riders, typically the organiser would report them to the national cycling authority, because the terms of those riders’ licences mean they have to abide by the antidoping rules. In France, licenced riders also means those with a simple cyclosportive licence.

How often tests are done, however, I’m not sure. Sometimes I think a text like the above is just an empty threat and that no tests are done, but there have been cases of cat 1 and cat 2 riders being found positive in Italy and Austria, and then banned for a period of time. Hobby riders in France have also been judged positive because they didn’t attend the required test.
When tests are done, I think they are typically on the first three home plus 3-5 names pulled out of a hat at random.

phreak

Is it any more obsessive than buying expensive powertaps, measuring diet to the nearest calorie, obsessing over training times and so on? To me doping is the illegal side of the same coin where us amateurs are concerned. We're not going to be professionals, yet so many carry on like they are professionals.

I've done a few sports to a reasonable level and cycling is far and away the worst for hooking you in.

avoidingmyphd

It's a really sad story. But it's more a story about that guy (and people like him) than a story about cycling.

amaferanga

phreak wrote:

Is it any more obsessive than buying expensive powertaps, measuring diet to the nearest calorie, obsessing over training times and so on?

Yes.

davidof

knedlicky wrote:

Going overboard in a new interest, to extent this guy does, strikes me as a trait found more often in America than Europe, while the amounts of money he gave out suggest he is without responsibilities, if not a loner.

Not sure it is an American thing but more a middle age bloke with money mid-life crisis thing (aka Mr Toadistis :-). I know a lot of people who get a sudden craze for a sport and equip themselves up to pro level and beyond before passing onto another craze. There must be garages full of sports gear up and down the country.

phreak

Why though? Because one is legal and the other isn't? We're amateurs. People laugh and scoff when people take sportives seriously, but amateur racing is hardly any better.

rick_chasey

phreak wrote:

Why though? Because one is legal and the other isn't? We're amateurs. People laugh and scoff when people take sportives seriously, but amateur racing is hardly any better.

Because spending money on a powertap doesn't f*ck with your health.

JV talks about "physiological scarring".

FJS

There were doping positives at last year's Maratona dles Dolomites. You can't really compare these events with sportives UK-style, but still...

phreak wrote:

Is it any more obsessive than buying expensive powertaps, measuring diet to the nearest calorie, obsessing over training times and so on? To me doping is the illegal side of the same coin where us amateurs are concerned. We're not going to be professionals, yet so many carry on like they are professionals.

That's it. There's so many riders at amateur level going to absurd and in laypeople's eyes unnatural lengths to improve their performance legally, and so much money spent it's not that surprising some are tempted by illegal options.

Very interesting article that, great description of the step-by-step moves to more and more extreme measures. The bottom-line is that some things are legal and others illegal, but the decision-making process is not as clear-cut as clean vs cheat.
Thanks for posting

FJS

Rick Chasey wrote:

phreak wrote:

Why though? Because one is legal and the other isn't? We're amateurs. People laugh and scoff when people take sportives seriously, but amateur racing is hardly any better.

Because spending money on a powertap doesn't f*ck with your health..

top level sport (and that includes amateurs training as such) f*cks with your health..

rick_chasey

FJS wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

phreak wrote:

Why though? Because one is legal and the other isn't? We're amateurs. People laugh and scoff when people take sportives seriously, but amateur racing is hardly any better.

Because spending money on a powertap doesn't f*ck with your health..

top level sport (and that includes amateurs training as such) f*cks with your health..

That's not the same though is it?

We've all heard the EPO stories of riders dying in their sleep.

The reason it's illegal is that it's ridiculously dangerous. Otherwise they'd let them.