Don't train to die

Shaunwildey

Hi All

In memory of my best friend, Tomas, I'm putting this message out there in good faith. I mean well and hope that nobody sees this as an attack of how they get involved in the sport. I used to be a head-down aggressive rider stating my place on the highways, but all that came to an end last year. Below is the letter that I'm sending out. Please copy it if you wish, or point me in the direction of better, more organised campaigns:


I am a keen cyclist and have been since I was old enough to stay up on 2 wheels. Now my 3 teenage sons enjoy all aspects of the sport too. I look forward to the expected explosion in the sport after Sky and Team GB’s amazing success.
However, based on my years of enjoyment and after a tragic loss last year, I send out a plea to cyclist new and experienced:
Where there is a cycleway available, use it.
Last year my best friend (and brother-in-law) was killed when he was hit by a van whilst he cycled on a dual-carriage way only 2 metres from a traffic-free cycleway. He was a committed cyclist, new to the sport and perhaps trying to shave a few seconds off of his PB on that route on his time-trials bike.
Despite everything that has and will be written about cyclist rights to use the road, when there is a well lit cycleway in view to motorist just by the road, a driver will not expect to see a bike on a major road, no matter how visible he may be. In the battle for road use, metal on flesh at 50 mph only has one outcome.
The more people using and campaigning for cycle ways and lanes the better. I know that using a cycleway means stopping and starting as you give way at junctions, but trying to attain a cycling goal on a busy road is not worth the devastation that is left behind.
Shaun Wildey
Suffolk

mattshrops

sorry to hear of your loss.

Would a campaign aimed at the culprits of these type of incidents not be a more valid use of your time/grief?

Drivers of vehicles need to be more aware of us.

Drivers of vehicles need to show us more consideration.

If i was a horse, drivers would slow down and give me space.

Is the life of a person not equally as valid as a horse?/

Shaunwildey

Hi. The culprit went to court, but I agree with you. I'm going to focus on drivers groups as well, but we must take care of ourselves in the face of poor road use. Thanks for posting your points.
Shaun

mattshrops

Fair play to you. Good luck, it seems if you have any chance of making an impact- this particular time in Britain would be a good time to do something like this.cycling has never been more popular.

P_Tucker

mattshrops wrote:

sorry to hear of your loss.

Would a campaign aimed at the culprits of these type of incidents not be a more valid use of your time/grief?

Drivers of vehicles need to be more aware of us.

Drivers of vehicles need to show us more consideration.

If i was a horse, drivers would slow down and give me space.

Is the life of a person not equally as valid as a horse?/

Word

oldwelshman

Sorry for you loss and good luck with your campaign.
I agree in principle to this for families and possibly commuting but for me personaly it would not be practical for me to train on such pathways and probably just as dangerous.
I do however try to train on open roads and raerley if ever go on dual carriageways.

bahzob

P_Tucker wrote:

mattshrops wrote:

sorry to hear of your loss.

Would a campaign aimed at the culprits of these type of incidents not be a more valid use of your time/grief?

Drivers of vehicles need to be more aware of us.

Drivers of vehicles need to show us more consideration.

If i was a horse, drivers would slow down and give me space.

Is the life of a person not equally as valid as a horse?/

Word

I like riding and riding fast. However I am also conscious that I am a total hypocrite. I expect other road users to ride safely but not me.

There seems to be some sort of assumption that it is perfectly OK for cyclists to trade off road safety in the quest for more speed. A normal race bike is an example, One reason I don't like riding cycle lanes is that often they are badly surfaced so they are uncomfortable and I am liable to puncture. They also ruin my AVS.

Time trial bikes are just ridiculous. Everything that makes them faster also makes them more dangerous. Handling, braking, visibility all are much worse and you only use them to go as fast as possible. Similar cars are much safer by comparison but can only use closed circuits.

Other road users can't do as they like on roads, why do cyclists feel they are the exception?

StillGoing

Difference is the cyclist isn't breaking any laws unless they are exceeding speed limits or being reckless. To try and ride quickly on a cycle path is potentially reckless bearing in mind they're often shared with pedestrians. As the priorities of the road go the cyclist is higher than any mechanically propelled vehicle, it is just it isn't taught to or practiced by drivers these days who wrongly assume the highway is for their sole use. With so many gadgets in drivers hands these days is it any wonder they seem to concentrate less on what is going on on the road and more in using their mobile or whatever? Someone once said the best safety device that should be fitted to vehicles is a spike pointing at the driver's chest.

thiscocks

I think the problem is cycling on a dual carriageway, not cycling on a single carriageway. If there is a path on a dual carriageway then yes use it. I have no idea why anyone would choose to ride a bike on a dual carriageway. Drivers understandably just don't expect to see a cyclist on one, I know I wouldn't expect it.

StillGoing

thiscocks wrote:

I think the problem is cycling on a dual carriageway, not cycling on a single carriageway. If there is a path on a dual carriageway then yes use it. I have no idea why anyone would choose to ride a bike on a dual carriageway. Drivers understandably just don't expect to see a cyclist on one, I know I wouldn't expect it.

I don't see why? Sometimes a dual carriageway is the only option and whilst I personally avoid them as much as I can due to the vast difference in speed and a higher likelihood of close passing LGVs and white van man, doing some routes don't leave an option. A driver should be constantly scanning the horizon for hazards but unfortunately not many of them do as they have become far too safe in their cocooned environment.

Muffintop

Hi,

As cyclists we get no where by being beligerent, disregarding and self righteous. There are a thousand things motorists should do (just like there are possibly a hundred thing we as cyclist should do) but they're not going to untill there is adequate provision in the law and that is enforced, until then why not take the OP in the spirit in which it was ment? If you choose to ignore it and continue as always, go to that too.

Mx

Mx

StillGoing

Nobody is being belligerent or self righteous; A cyclist is entitled to be on the highway as much as a farmer driving cattle, a horse rider or a pedestrian unless it is a highway prohibited for use by those classes of transportation. Mechanically propelled vehicles come down the bottom of the list. Riding along at 20mph on a cycle path is not going to endear us with the pedestrians of this world and plays into the hands of the motoring lobby who want us off "their" roads full stop. When accidents are caused by the inattentiveness of drivers, it is the drivers body that should be the recipient of advice and wake up calls. We should take whatever precautions we can to safeguard ourselves such as by avoiding dual carriageways as much as possible, as nobody else is going to do it for us, but we shouldn't shy away from our past times altogether. It may not matter where you are to have a close encounter with an idiot in a car as only this morning while riding on a single track country road, an idiot in a Lexus IS200 came screaming along the road in the opposite direction refusing to acknowledge my presence on the road and forced me into the side. I've avoided dual carriageways so do I now avoid single track country roads too? Keep your wits about you and monitor what is going on around you. If I was using a dual carriageway and it was particularly busy, then yes, I'd curtail my speed and use the cycle track.

Soni

Riding a bike on a road is fine, but when you are pushing the limits and trying as hard as you can, you then sacrifice vigilance and safety for speed.

If you want to ride as fast as you can, fine, but there are places for this type of riding.

Its no different to a car driving at a sensible legal speed on a road, that is fine, but when you want to push the car to its limits, then that is when race tracks come into the game.

butcher_boy

The fact that several posters state that as Drivers they wouldn't expect to see a cyclist on a Dual Carriageway is the most worrying point on this thread.

If you do not drive with due care & intention for ALL road users then FUCK OFF the road.

If you do not drive with a high level of HAzard Awareness then FUCK OFF the road.

Stop blaming cyclists for the deaths that motor vehicle drivers cause.

GiantMike

butcher_boy wrote:

The fact that several posters state that as Drivers they wouldn't expect to see a cyclist on a Dual Carriageway is the most worrying point on this thread.

If you do not drive with due care & intention for ALL road users then fark OFF the road.

If you do not drive with a high level of HAzard Awareness then fark OFF the road.

Stop blaming cyclists for the deaths that motor vehicle drivers cause.

I think you're missing the point. Accidents will always happen, it's human nature to make mistakes it's just the consequence that make the difference between a mishap and a tragedy. I would like to think that I drive with due care and attention, but it's impossible to maintain the highest level to attention at all times, particularly when you're on a familiar route and particularly when you don't expect a hazard. This is human nature and no amount of lecturing will change it. When was the last time you had a day without any mistakes? A day when your attention wasn't drawn away from your primary task?

As riders we have the ability to reduce the risk to ourselves by avoiding situations where the effect of somebody else's mistakes are catastrophic. I do not ride TTs on A roads becuase there are significant risks in doing so. I have removed myself from the risk of a tired unattentive driver who has driven for miles or hours without seeing a cyclist at the side of the A road.

To the OP, sorry for your loss and thanks for the reminder that there are reasons and ways to reduce risks.

StillGoing

GiantMike wrote:

butcher_boy wrote:

The fact that several posters state that as Drivers they wouldn't expect to see a cyclist on a Dual Carriageway is the most worrying point on this thread.

If you do not drive with due care & intention for ALL road users then fark OFF the road.

If you do not drive with a high level of HAzard Awareness then fark OFF the road.

Stop blaming cyclists for the deaths that motor vehicle drivers cause.

I think you're missing the point. Accidents will always happen, it's human nature to make mistakes it's just the consequence that make the difference between a mishap and a tragedy. I would like to think that I drive with due care and attention, but it's impossible to maintain the highest level to attention at all times, particularly when you're on a familiar route and particularly when you don't expect a hazard. This is human nature and no amount of lecturing will change it. When was the last time you had a day without any mistakes? A day when your attention wasn't drawn away from your primary task?

I strongly disagree with that. The more familiar the route the more alert you should be. It takes a great deal of concentration to drive correctly by maintaining your speed within limits, scanning the horizon for hazards, checking mirrors every 7 seconds minimum, but very few drivers do it. You should be driving to expect the unexpected and look for information links; are there dustbins out? then there's going to be a dust cart somewhere. Lamp posts appearing in a cluster in the distance? Then there's a junction coming up. There are countless information links drivers should be keeping an eye out for and if they did, then there's more than a chance they'd see things like cyclists on the road ahead.

Soni

philthy3 wrote:

GiantMike wrote:

butcher_boy wrote:

The fact that several posters state that as Drivers they wouldn't expect to see a cyclist on a Dual Carriageway is the most worrying point on this thread.

If you do not drive with due care & intention for ALL road users then fark OFF the road.

If you do not drive with a high level of HAzard Awareness then fark OFF the road.

Stop blaming cyclists for the deaths that motor vehicle drivers cause.

I think you're missing the point. Accidents will always happen, it's human nature to make mistakes it's just the consequence that make the difference between a mishap and a tragedy. I would like to think that I drive with due care and attention, but it's impossible to maintain the highest level to attention at all times, particularly when you're on a familiar route and particularly when you don't expect a hazard. This is human nature and no amount of lecturing will change it. When was the last time you had a day without any mistakes? A day when your attention wasn't drawn away from your primary task?

I strongly disagree with that. The more familiar the route the more alert you should be. It takes a great deal of concentration to drive correctly by maintaining your speed within limits, scanning the horizon for hazards, checking mirrors every 7 seconds minimum, but very few drivers do it. You should be driving to expect the unexpected and look for information links; are there dustbins out? then there's going to be a dust cart somewhere. Lamp posts appearing in a cluster in the distance? Then there's a junction coming up. There are countless information links drivers should be keeping an eye out for and if they did, then there's more than a chance they'd see things like cyclists on the road ahead.

Wrong, the more familiar the route, the more your subconscious takes over.

GiantMike

philthy3 wrote:

I strongly disagree with that. The more familiar the route the more alert you should be. It takes a great deal of concentration to drive correctly by maintaining your speed within limits, scanning the horizon for hazards, checking mirrors every 7 seconds minimum, but very few drivers do it. You should be driving to expect the unexpected and look for information links; are there dustbins out? then there's going to be a dust cart somewhere. Lamp posts appearing in a cluster in the distance? Then there's a junction coming up. There are countless information links drivers should be keeping an eye out for and if they did, then there's more than a chance they'd see things like cyclists on the road ahead.

You're missing my point. There's a big difference between what people SHOULD do to drive with the highest level of attention and what the human body ACTUALLY DOES. You can pontificate until the cows come home, but it's human nature to make assumptions and lose alertness, resulting in mistakes.

When Cancellara fell off in the Olympic Road Race he made a mistake. When highly-trained pilots fly into the ground they have made a mistake. People make mistakes. Telling people to not make mistakes will not stop them making mistakes.

StillGoing

It isn't about making mistakes, it's poor standards of driving. Familiarity with the environment makes drivers blazé when they should be conscious they are in control of something that can kill in a moment of Inattentiveness. The fact drivers are less attentive when familiar with the route is not what is supposed to happen. I know full well they do and i wasn't trying to suggest otherwise. Going around a blind bend you know you can take at the speed limit doesn't make it right when you plough into the back of a stationary delivery van. As a driver you should be looking for all potential dangers and drive to the conditions and environment. I'm not some reclaim the streets warrior either, I hold licences for class 1 lgv, motorcycle, tracked vehicles and an emergency vehicles advanced qualification.

Kingy 123

It does not seem to matter what you do on a bike shit will all ways happen.One of the biggest dangers out there and this happens everyday is motorists drive to bloody close.In fact thinking about it i could list so many dangers and problems that cyclists have to deal with everday.

jonomc4

I think the obviously sensible point by the OP should be clarified.

For me I will use a cycle path if it is there - but it has to be fit for use! The only cycle paths I have near me and on my commute into work are those shared with pedestrians. These are incredibly dangerous for me - far more than the road itself in all honesty.
Firstly they are shared - this means people walking at random from the footpath to the cycle path - in fact more people seem to walk in the cycle path than the footpath.
Secondly - the path has roads coming through it from car parks etc. Cars don't stop till they get to the edge of the road - therefore you need to be really vigilante.

Yes I would use cycle paths but they have to be good enough to do 20mph on without risk, for them to be of any value

djfleming22

I think unless the government and highway agencies start using signposts and such warning other road users that we are out there things will not change and the MPS and such realize that instead of spending money on windmills and start to improve road conditions like cycle lines as the Dutch and alike use... this could be the best way to reduce climate change as the authorities keep throwing down our throats but do they listen no chance... saying that we have a huge forum and maybe we should give a little shout as well..... sorry to hear about your friend

Jambes de Fer

Horrible story. I know the A40 well - not a road I'd cycle along personally, although the cycle path is horrible. Still, too much traffic, lots of on/offs and people changing lanes (suddenly) to get in the right lane, lots of HGVs and vans cramping space and blocking visibility.

As a cyclist, if you're on the road with cars there's always going to be risk, even when the chance of a car hitting you is fairly low, when it does the consequenses are likely to be very serious. The best ways to reduce that risk (aside from not cycling on the road) are to make sure you're very visible and to make sure you're riding as predictably as possible. Even then though, and even though drivers don't want to hit you either, there's always the chance of human error - And the more factors like the ones above, the greater chance of that happening.

People make mistakes. Some drivers make stupid, sudden manoeuvers, a few just drive like dicks, pretty much all drivers will lose concentration at some point, even if only for a second or two, or simply be checking their mirrors/blindspot rather than looking ahead. You've got to assess the risks and always be aware that your safety is reliant on a lot of people not ****ing up.

BTW, I know there's plenty of bad driving, but for the vast majority I've found car drivers give me ample space and don't force themselves past me at the wrong time. Of course it's the occasional bad ones that stick most in the memory.

kiwi43

Hi there,
I am so sorry for your loss, condolences to you and yours...
I am for my sins a Paramedic and so I unfortunately in the course of my duties have to pick up these pieces.
I am fortunate or unfortunate depending on your views able to play devils advocate here.
I am trained to the highest level of driving and am expected to know all road rules and abide by them until I attend on blue lights where I an allowed to claim exemptions of the driving law _speed being one of them_ and i can hand on heart state that i also get careless and make mistakes especialey when tired.
We are actually not taught how to drive but how to pass the test in the first place, and that is where the problems lie, we should be taught to pass the test and then taught to drive. vehicle drivers on the whole are BAD drivers, they just think they are good, just because you havn't had an accident doesn't mean you havn't caused a few...

however I also see on a VERY regular basis cyclists behaving in a very unsafe and sometimes stupid and dangerous practices e.g riding no-hands, no lights, no helmet, miles into the road instead of to the side, no high-vis clothing etc

we just need to realise that no one has more rights but everyone is equal, I cannot force anyone off the road to attend a 999 call so why should anyone else, also cyclists shouldn't have the moral high ground either...
not sure if this helps but just a unique perspective.