Devil take the Hinde
Comments
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bartman100 wrote:ddraver wrote:He
Did
Not
Cheat
Next?
He
did
in
my
book
Next?
Just because a loophole in the specific track rules do not dictate a DQ, doesn't mean you can't call 'cheat'. If it is accepted practice then maybe the rules need to be changed. As someone stated, a runner deliberately falling to get a race re-started would be ludicrous. What's the difference? 'I started badly' - tough $hit.
A Cheater is comeone that breaks the rules for gain, so he did nt.
You disagree with the rule - that is fine, I can see why, but I disagree with you.
Running is a different sport. It would be better if he had continued and then requested a restart given that something clearly went wrong - but the (admitadly wierd) way of signalling that to the commisaires is to fall over.
Thom Thom - it is not blind patriotism, it is looking at what happened, familiarising oneself with the rules, looking at it again and seeing if what happend contravened said rules. In this case it did not, in VickyP and JessV's case, it did.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ThomThom wrote:Road Red wrote:Nothing like a bit of blind patriotism. If it was done by the nasty Germans or French we may have a different view.
He f**cked up, knew the rules and used (abused) them, he didn't have a mechanical.
Bit like the coverage of Vino's win. At least two of the nationals led with Doper headlines. We didnt have those headlines when Millar won his stage this year, nor would we have had had them if he won the road race.
(Oh, I forgot, David said sorry so its all ok!)
That's the best post I've read in here for a long time.
You were the first person to pick up on it but at that time said it is standard practice so how is it blind patriotism when people accept a GB rider using the rules?
I was watching the basketball last night and the commentator accussed the British team on insanity for not giving a foul at the end. From what I can gather this would have stopped the clock while the Spaniards took their free shots but on re-starting the Brits would have had a few seconds to get down the other end and go for the 3 pointer to get the win / draw. It would have been using the rules to benefit you, that's different to cheating. It might not be 'in the spirit' of the sport and admitting doing it on TV is a bit silly. People are also missing the point that GB would have probably qualified despite the original poor start and with their subsequent two rides would probably have still won. The French aren't in a place to protest as it wasn't even in the race against them.0 -
It IS normal practice. But the whole thing about describing it as 'totally okay and within the rules' is pretty lame. Come on.. Road Red is spot on here. Had GB lost that one you would have been all over it. It's was insanely dumb admitting it on live tv and it was even more pathetic to come up with a halfhearted excuse afterwords about it being 'lost in translation'. Nothing was 'lost in translation'.0
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They've just discussed this on Radio 5. The rules say that a team is allowed one restart 'in case of mishap'. It actually says mishap, and that, according to the UCI, covers a lot of things. Basically, if you want a restart you get a restart, you don't have to crash to get one, Hoy and Kenny putting their hand up would be enough. It's standard practice.
If you don't like what happened, blame the rules not Hindes.Twitter: @RichN950 -
bartman100 wrote:ddraver wrote:He
Did
Not
Cheat
Next?
He
did
in
my
book
Next?
Just because a loophole in the specific track rules do not dictate a DQ, doesn't mean you can't call 'cheat'. If it is accepted practice then maybe the rules need to be changed. As someone stated, a runner deliberately falling to get a race re-started would be ludicrous. What's the difference? 'I started badly' - tough $hit.
Your book doesn't matter though.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Ok, so every time a footballer takes a dive then the team needs to be disqualified.
Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
ABCC Cycling Coach0 -
Jez mon wrote:bartman100 wrote:ddraver wrote:He
Did
Not
Cheat
Next?
He
did
in
my
book
Next?
Just because a loophole in the specific track rules do not dictate a DQ, doesn't mean you can't call 'cheat'. If it is accepted practice then maybe the rules need to be changed. As someone stated, a runner deliberately falling to get a race re-started would be ludicrous. What's the difference? 'I started badly' - tough $hit.
Your book doesn't matter though.
The viewing public can see that UCI condones or ignores cheating - that doesn't matter?0 -
bartman100 wrote:Jez mon wrote:bartman100 wrote:ddraver wrote:He
Did
Not
Cheat
Next?
He
did
in
my
book
Next?
Just because a loophole in the specific track rules do not dictate a DQ, doesn't mean you can't call 'cheat'. If it is accepted practice then maybe the rules need to be changed. As someone stated, a runner deliberately falling to get a race re-started would be ludicrous. What's the difference? 'I started badly' - tough $hit.
Your book doesn't matter though.
The viewing public can see that UCI condones or ignores cheating - that doesn't matter?
Being honest, I think technical infringements on the track are least of the UCIs worries on that score."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Agreed!0
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It doesn't matter about the first 2 pages, the definition of cheating is: 'act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage'. Regardless of whether he infringed a rule or not, to my mind, he cheated.ddraver wrote:You need to read the frst 2 pages bart - he did nt cheat0 -
ThomThom wrote:Road Red wrote:Nothing like a bit of blind patriotism. If it was done by the nasty Germans or French we may have a different view.
He f**cked up, knew the rules and used (abused) them, he didn't have a mechanical.
Bit like the coverage of Vino's win. At least two of the nationals led with Doper headlines. We didnt have those headlines when Millar won his stage this year, nor would we have had had them if he won the road race.
(Oh, I forgot, David said sorry so its all ok!)
That's the best post I've read in here for a long time.
Eh?
You do both know that it's the English, not the British who have a thing about the French and the Germans (and the Aussies) right? It's not a British thing.More problems but still living....0 -
amaferanga wrote:ThomThom wrote:Road Red wrote:Nothing like a bit of blind patriotism. If it was done by the nasty Germans or French we may have a different view.
He f**cked up, knew the rules and used (abused) them, he didn't have a mechanical.
Bit like the coverage of Vino's win. At least two of the nationals led with Doper headlines. We didnt have those headlines when Millar won his stage this year, nor would we have had had them if he won the road race.
(Oh, I forgot, David said sorry so its all ok!)
That's the best post I've read in here for a long time.
Eh?
You do both know that it's the English, not the British who have a thing about the French and the Germans (and the Aussies) right? It's not a British thing.
Dont forget the Argies........0 -
bartman100 wrote:
It doesn't matter about the first 2 pages, the definition of cheating is: 'act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage'. Regardless of whether he infringed a rule or not, to my mind, he cheated.ddraver wrote:You need to read the frst 2 pages bart - he did nt cheat
Except that it was fair (ie within the rules) and he was actually very honest about it! Too honest some are saying...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I'm English and have no thing with Argentina, France or Germany, so let's stop the sweeping generalisations.0
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Not being much of a trackie is this accepted behaviour amongst his peers? If so then there is nothing worth talking about IMO.Mañana0
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pb21 wrote:Not being much of a trackie is this accepted behaviour amongst his peers? If so then there is nothing worth talking about IMO.
It is accepted behaviour. Hence why hardly anyone has made anything of it, other than some sections of the press and certain internet forum people.0 -
Laura Trott's dad, who is a cycling coach, was just on the radio and says that everyone gets taught this. If you make a hash of the start, just claim a restart.pb21 wrote:Not being much of a trackie is this accepted behaviour amongst his peers? If so then there is nothing worth talking about IMO.Twitter: @RichN950 -
FTFYddraver wrote:bartman100 wrote:
It doesn't matter about the first 2 pages, the definition of cheating is: 'act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage'. Regardless of whether he infringed a rule or not, to my mind, he cheated.ddraver wrote:You need to read the frst 2 pages bart - he did nt cheat
Except that it was unfair (yet within the rules) and he was actually very honest about it! Too honest some are saying...0 -
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ddraver wrote:you have a strange concept of fixing, it appears to be making things worse...?
Maybe that's why you re struggling to understand something so simple.
(OK, sorry Rick I ll be good now!)
You don't have to be patronising just because we disagree. You don't appear to understand the concept: cheating can be said to occur within the context of ethical/moral codes of conduct as well as within the context of breaking rules. In this example, I believe UCI should change the rules in order that cheating cannot be undertaken without a rule infringement.0 -
natrix wrote:andyp wrote:It is accepted behaviour.
If it is accepted behaviour, why deny it later?? It just seems to be making the situation worse..........
Cos cycling is freaky and wierd to most people - and if you think about it, it really is!
But then it's the crazyness that is the fun bit to most of us...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:it's slightly dark arts.
I like the sound of that, I'm going to feel like a ninja warrior cycling home tonight 8)~~~~~~Sustrans - Join the Movement~~~~~~0 -
ddraver wrote:Cos cycling is freaky and wierd to most people - and if you think about it, it really is!
But then it's the crazyness that is the fun bit to most of us...
Sadly, I have to agree with you there, we're freaky and weird!! 8) 8)~~~~~~Sustrans - Join the Movement~~~~~~0 -
natrix wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:it's slightly dark arts.
I like the sound of that, I'm going to feel like a ninja warrior cycling home tonight 8)
Just don't deliberately fall off if you have a bad start from the lights. It's not cheating but it bloody hurts!0 -
Pross wrote:natrix wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:it's slightly dark arts.
I like the sound of that, I'm going to feel like a ninja warrior cycling home tonight 8)
Just don't 'deliberately' fall off if you have a bad start from the lights. It's not cheating but it bloody hurts!
FTFY.0
