Devil take the Hinde

natrix
natrix Posts: 1,111
edited August 2012 in Pro race
Philip Hinde seems to be frantically back pedalling http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/au ... ranslation

:oops: :oops: Bit embarrasing after the badminton fiasco....
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Comments

  • esafosfina
    esafosfina Posts: 131
    Bit of inexperience creeping in... Hoy's face was a classic... :roll:
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Watching the inccident there's no way it's not deliberate.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    A pity he said it.
    Gave those rabidly anti-British haters on the CN forums another opportunity to whine.
    In the main race section, too, not the Asylum. :(
    According to them, the only gold we haven't cheated to win was the shooting.

    Nothing about Forsterman and Bourgain's back door entry into the track events.

    I'm sure Jessica Ennis's world best run in the 100m heptahlon hurdles, will produce another Clinic thread.
    natrix wrote:
    Philip Hinde seems to be frantically back pedalling http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/au ... ranslation

    :oops: :oops: Bit embarrasing after the badminton fiasco....

    Except they were trying to lose and thus broke the rules.
    PH was clearly NOT trying to lose and is within the rules, if not the spirit.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • BillyMansell
    BillyMansell Posts: 817
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Nothing about Forsterman and Bourgain's back door entry into the track events.
    Yeah, I did see a quote from the French that they weren't happy about the tactic but accepted that it's within the rules. Any other stronger response would have been hypocrisy.
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    French team also calling for the rules to be altered for the future.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    A pity he said it.
    Gave those rabidly anti-British haters on the CN forums another opportunity to whine.
    In the main race section, too, not the Asylum. :(
    According to them, the only gold we haven't cheated to win was the shooting.

    Nothing about Forsterman and Bourgain's back door entry into the track events.

    I'm sure Jessica Ennis's world best run in the 100m heptahlon hurdles, will produce another Clinic thread.
    natrix wrote:
    Philip Hinde seems to be frantically back pedalling http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/au ... ranslation

    :oops: :oops: Bit embarrasing after the badminton fiasco....


    Except they were trying to lose and thus broke the rules.
    PH was clearly NOT trying to lose and is within the rules, if not the spirit.


    Need to change the rules then. Imagine a 400m runner falling over after a bad start and the whole thing being re-started.

    Seems more blatant than the marginal indescretion that the Chinese did in the final against the Germans.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    A pity he said it.
    Gave those rabidly anti-British haters on the CN forums another opportunity to whine.
    In the main race section, too, not the Asylum. :(
    According to them, the only gold we haven't cheated to win was the shooting.

    Nothing about Forsterman and Bourgain's back door entry into the track events.

    .

    I see it has been moved out of ProRoad at least into the Clinic for those incurable rabids who infest the world with their warped ideologies
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    It wasn't as though it was a slightly slow start and he felt he hadn't nailed it, it was a completely bungled start and there was very likely some sort mechanical influence in that. Something was clearly wrong. Maybe it was only a minor mechanical and he could have kept going at 90% pace, but if that's the case he's still justified in getting a restart.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    Load of bollox from more people that don't know what they re on about FFS....

    The Commisaires that night showed they were more than happy DQing people, even the darlings of Team GB. If it had been illeagal it would have been punished as such.

    Move on...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • vs
    vs Posts: 468
    he's still justified in getting a restart.

    Why? Tough luck I say. Absolute cheating if his words are correct.

    Sanchez didn't get a restart in the TT.

    100m runners are disqualified for one false start.

    Guess the rule needs change.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    TT is a different Sport*
    Running is a different sport

    Irrelevant.

    How does changing the rules in 6 months make it absoloute cheating?

    (and you wonder if there should be something similar in one day TTing given what hapened to Sanchez, although for GT TT's it would be a bit strange)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • vs
    vs Posts: 468
    ddraver wrote:
    How does changing the rules in 6 months make it absoloute cheating?

    Umm because he knew it was a bad start so fell over on purpose as he knew the rules would get him a restart. So surely that is cheating. No?

    Like diving in the box on purpose to get a penalty is cheating in most peoples books*.

    * yes football is a different sport
  • kanto
    kanto Posts: 112
    It doesn't seem like something that will make you cheer for the team in the future, but morals aside, what the hell is Hinde doing openly admitting it? I can't believe anyone could be so thick.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    edited August 2012
    It was nt just a bad start though was it - watch it again, he ends up sitting on the top tube trying to keep the flipping thing upright at one point!

    Thems the rules, he knew the rules, he played within the rules - no foul

    and diving is illeagal, if the ref spots you you can be yellow carded and a free kick given! It is not the equivalent. It is the equivalent of deliberately fouling in a basketball match or running the ball out of bounds in Am. Football to stop the clock...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Cleat Eastwood
    Cleat Eastwood Posts: 7,508
    Boardman said yesterday though that its an accepted practice among riders - if the riders don't frown on it whats the problem. Its a bit like a striker taking the ball to the corner if a footy - not nice to watch but given the chance all do it.
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    They have the rule on the track because the forces and torques applied on the equipment at the start are so big that it is virtually impossible to ensure that it is going hold up to the stress by mere trackside checks.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • vs
    vs Posts: 468
    edited August 2012
    ddraver wrote:

    Thems the rules, he knew the rules, he played within the rules - no foul

    OK, so how did the Badminton* players 'break' the rules?

    * Badminton is also a different sport and is not not relevant, I'm just curious, how they can justify throwing out 8 players who actually played badly but within every badminton rule.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    vs wrote:
    ddraver wrote:

    Thems the rules, he knew the rules, he played within the rules - no foul

    OK, so how did the Badminton* players 'break' the rules?

    * Badminton is alos a different sport and is not not relevant, I'm just curious, how they can justify throwing out 8 players who actually played badly but within every badminton rule.

    It's different.

    He didn't lose deliberately.

    He fell to restart the race. He didn't deny anyone a spectacle of a competitive race/match.
    _
  • natrix
    natrix Posts: 1,111
    If there was nothing wrong with doing it, why are they now trying to deny it by saying that it was all due to his poor grasp of English??
    ~~~~~~Sustrans - Join the Movement~~~~~~
  • vs
    vs Posts: 468
    He didn't lose deliberately.

    But he did cheat deliberately.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    natrix wrote:
    If there was nothing wrong with doing it, why are they now trying to deny it by saying that it was all due to his poor grasp of English??

    Takes the shine off it.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    vs wrote:
    He didn't lose deliberately.

    But he did cheat deliberately.

    It isn't cheating.

    It's not like he did it and didn't get caught. We all saw it, the commissars saw it, and they say it's fine.
    _
  • Road Red
    Road Red Posts: 232
    Nothing like a bit of blind patriotism. If it was done by the nasty Germans or French we may have a different view.

    He f**cked up, knew the rules and used (abused) them, he didn't have a mechanical.

    Bit like the coverage of Vino's win. At least two of the nationals led with Doper headlines. We didnt have those headlines when Millar won his stage this year, nor would we have had had them if he won the road race.

    (Oh, I forgot, David said sorry so its all ok!)
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    vs wrote:
    ddraver wrote:

    Thems the rules, he knew the rules, he played within the rules - no foul

    OK, so how did the Badminton* players 'break' the rules?

    * Badminton is also a different sport and is not not relevant, I'm just curious, how they can justify throwing out 8 players who actually played badly but within every badminton rule.

    Because it is explicitly stated in the rules of BADMINTON that each player shall do their best to win (I forget the exact wording). Therefore they broke the rules.

    He
    Did
    Not
    Cheat

    Next?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Graculus
    Graculus Posts: 107
    William Fotheringham was speaking on this subject on the Today programme at 8.45.

    He pointed out that a fall in the first half lap gives the right for a restart, and he claimed that a deliberate fall is accepted practice if you mess up a start.

    If they changed this rule then it would be tough luck on all riders (and their teams) who fell at the start. You would be unable to tell if a fall was deliberate or not unless, as in this case, the rider concerned obligingly announces it to the world!

    It's a shame that this has marred such a great ride by all three of them.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Road Red wrote:
    Nothing like a bit of blind patriotism. If it was done by the nasty Germans or French we may have a different view.

    He f**cked up, knew the rules and used (abused) them, he didn't have a mechanical.

    Bit like the coverage of Vino's win. At least two of the nationals led with Doper headlines. We didnt have those headlines when Millar won his stage this year, nor would we have had had them if he won the road race.

    (Oh, I forgot, David said sorry so its all ok!)

    Don't think you can accuse me of blind patriotism. :|
    _
  • bartman100
    bartman100 Posts: 544
    ddraver wrote:
    He
    Did
    Not
    Cheat

    Next?

    He
    did
    in
    my
    book
    Next?

    Just because a loophole in the specific track rules do not dictate a DQ, doesn't mean you can't call 'cheat'. If it is accepted practice then maybe the rules need to be changed. As someone stated, a runner deliberately falling to get a race re-started would be ludicrous. What's the difference? 'I started badly' - tough $hit.
  • Road Red
    Road Red Posts: 232
    Not aimed at you Rick, just a general observation.
  • Roscobob
    Roscobob Posts: 344
    vs wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    How does changing the rules in 6 months make it absoloute cheating?

    Umm because he knew it was a bad start so fell over on purpose as he knew the rules would get him a restart. So surely that is cheating. No?

    Like diving in the box on purpose to get a penalty is cheating in most peoples books*.

    * yes football is a different sport

    Him falling is within the rules. Diving in football is against the rules. Pretty straightforward.

    I think whether or not it should be allowed is a whole different conversation though.
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Road Red wrote:
    Nothing like a bit of blind patriotism. If it was done by the nasty Germans or French we may have a different view.

    He f**cked up, knew the rules and used (abused) them, he didn't have a mechanical.

    Bit like the coverage of Vino's win. At least two of the nationals led with Doper headlines. We didnt have those headlines when Millar won his stage this year, nor would we have had had them if he won the road race.

    (Oh, I forgot, David said sorry so its all ok!)

    That's the best post I've read in here for a long time.

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