cyclist killed - opinions on helmets,blame and education

Kieran_Burns

Someone died. Horribly and tragically. Can you lot shut up and have a little respect?

spasypaddy

Terrible news.

My condolences to the family and friends.

I will never understand why anyone would ever ride down the inside of something bigger than a white van (And even then i try not to). This could so easily have been avoided if that account is correct. Just some simple road sense

DonDaddyD

With media training Wiggins might have remained more objective and kept his more personal opinions to himself. Like it or not his new stature means he has to be careful about what he says in public about cycling and the sport in general.

Being as outspoken as he is will eventually land him in trouble ruin his public image. Not least you of which, what he has been reported as saying may come across as insensitive to the lay person.

notsoblue

I felt a chill go down my spine when I heard this news. It really does hit home, such a horrific accident to happen while doing something we all love.

dhope

DonDaddyD wrote:

Wiggins, if he is going to be the face man of British cycling, needs media training.

Not to make it about Wiggins but the last thing we need is more people with fecking 'media training'.
I'd prefer to hear him say that he thinks helmets should be made compulsory, then ideally someone similarly high profile will say that they're not and it'd have made no difference, then maybe people will discuss or argue the points and come up with a few suggestions that actually might make cycling safer rather than a couple of utterly pointless media safe soundbites.

That said, whatever the circumstances, it's tragic news and thoughts with those that know the rider.

daviesee

dhope wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Wiggins, if he is going to be the face man of British cycling, needs media training.

Not to make it about Wiggins but the last thing we need is more people with fecking 'media training'.
I'd prefer to hear him say that he thinks helmets should be made compulsory, then ideally someone similarly high profile will say that they're not and it'd have made no difference, then maybe people will discuss or argue the points and come up with a few suggestions that actually might make cycling safer rather than a couple of utterly pointless media safe soundbites.

That said, whatever the circumstances, it's tragic news and thoughts with those that know the rider.

+1 On all counts.

clarkey cat

Its Sky News - take it with a massive pinch of salt.

Tragic for the family and harrowing account from the eye-witness. This has really upset what should have been a wonderful day for cycling. Huge condolences. Very sad.

petemadoc

daviesee wrote:

dhope wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Wiggins, if he is going to be the face man of British cycling, needs media training.

Not to make it about Wiggins but the last thing we need is more people with fecking 'media training'.
I'd prefer to hear him say that he thinks helmets should be made compulsory, then ideally someone similarly high profile will say that they're not and it'd have made no difference, then maybe people will discuss or argue the points and come up with a few suggestions that actually might make cycling safer rather than a couple of utterly pointless media safe soundbites.

That said, whatever the circumstances, it's tragic news and thoughts with those that know the rider.

+1 On all counts.

+1

Media "training" just turns people into question dodging sit on the fence politician types. Wiggins has his views on helmets and whether relevant to this case or not they are still his views.

My heart just sank when I saw this one the BBC news site and then when Lineker read it out on the olympic show..... I just wanted to cry. Such a sad thing to happen on what should have been a great day for cycling.

There is a clear recurring theme with cyclists riding up the inside of big vehicles and deaths. If I didn't keep an eye on this forum then I wouldn't know about the dangers. There needs to be a serious campaign about this, it happens way too often.

Gazzaputt

pete54 wrote:

His comments made me furious. He may have made them off the cuff but I think he needs to give a more considered response when he's sobered up. The reality is that the news headlines are 'brad says cyclists should be compelled to wear helmets', the implication being that if we all do then the roads will suddenly become a safe place to be.

The roads may not be safer but it'll give a layer of protection that one day you might need.

It was an on the spot reaction give him a break FFS.

As for media training DDD get a life will you.

vermin

dhope wrote:

Some very sensible and laudable words

RIP to the cyclist who, apparently as a direct result of his own actions, got himself killed. This is another terribly depressing example of the dangers of cycling in the city without adequate training/experience.

Cycling through major cities, especially ones like London that were designed and built before traffic volumes increased to their current levels, is inherently dangerous.

Wearing helmets makes it safer. Quality equipment makes it safer. Good training makes it safer. Experience makes it safer. Confident positioning makes it safer. Thinking makes it safer. I fail to understand counter-arguments.

My condolences to his family.

cyclingprop

vermin wrote:

dhope wrote:

Some very sensible and laudable words

RIP to the cyclist who, apparently as a direct result of his own actions, got himself killed. This is another terribly depressing example of the dangers of cycling in the city without adequate training/experience.

Cycling through major cities, especially ones like London that were designed and built before traffic volumes increased to their current levels, is inherently dangerous.

Wearing helmets makes it safer. Quality equipment makes it safer. Good training makes it safer. Experience makes it safer. Confident positioning makes it safer. Thinking makes it safer. I fail to understand counter-arguments.

My condolences to his family.

+1

jamesco

HebdenBiker wrote:

Make no mistake Woody - I share your dismay at another pointless road death - but I'm not sure whether your complaint about lack of cycle lanes gets to the heart of the matter. We cyclists do not need to be kept in our own lane for our protection. We just need drivers to drive safely around us. That applies just as much if the road is busy/narrow/full of HGVs.

I've been a bit on the fence over this debate but now side with having dedicated cycle-lanes. Having ridden the Way of the Roses a couple of weekends back, it was a real eye-opener to ride on proper dedicated lanes; it not only is safer, it feels safer, which is important to get more people on bikes.

My last accident happened on Monday when a van driver pulled out from a side-street, failing to give way. I had on a high-vis vest and blinking lights and was coming slowly through a green light, but he still stuffed up. And this was a guy with an unblemished driving-record; it's just too much to hope that drivers are going to improve their driving anytime soon.

stuj15

Hearing this news last night sent a shiver down my spine as not two hours before, I was talking to a work colleague who had recently moved to Leyton and he was saying how the roads on his new route around the eastway weren't very good for cycling. I then hear that a cyclist in his early 30's (now confirmed 28) had been knocked over and killed on the exact route he was talking about, I prayed I'd see him this morning.

RIP to the cyclist and what Vermin said.

cyclingprop

Had a phone call from mother this morning... "you're 28 and ride white bikes"...

peat

PeteMadoc wrote:

There is a clear recurring theme with cyclists riding up the inside of big vehicles and deaths. If I didn't keep an eye on this forum then I wouldn't know about the dangers.

Good point.

Currently, the only formal training we get is a cycling proficiency course at what, age 7-8?

How about a stage 2 compulsory course for school leavers at 16? Even if they had no interest in cycling ever again, it might help educate them as car driver's.

SteppenHerring

This might be an unpopular opinion but in a lot of cases, I think existing cycle lanes encourage this sort of dangerous behaviour - riding on the left up the inside of traffic that might be turning. Also if you're riding tight to the left, when drivers coming out of side turnings look, they won't expect something moving at speed to be in that position. If I see a vehicle looking like it's about to pull out, I'll slow and take primary to be more visible. Spending money on infrastructure that makes cycling more dangerous is clearly not a good idea.

Anyway, a tragedy putting a dampener on an otherwise great day.

vermin

SteppenHerring wrote:

This might be an unpopular opinion but in a lot of cases, I think existing cycle lanes encourage this sort of dangerous behaviour - riding on the left up the inside of traffic that might be turning. Also if you're riding tight to the left, when drivers coming out of side turnings look, they won't expect something moving at speed to be in that position. If I see a vehicle looking like it's about to pull out, I'll slow and take primary to be more visible. Spending money on infrastructure that makes cycling more dangerous is clearly not a good idea.

Anyway, a tragedy putting a dampener on an otherwise great day.

Agreed

spasypaddy

what does annoy me is this is a regular occurrence on our roads and it doesnt get any press coverage but because it was an olympic vehicle its big news.

Agent57

apreading wrote:

As I said - I think having kids changes your view on risk and mortality. How many of those that dont want to wear helmets would not want their kids to wear one?

I do wear one often (not always), but neither my wife nor kids (10 and 14) ever wear one - and I don't try to make them.

Gazzaputt

spasypaddy wrote:

what does annoy me is this is a regular occurrence on our roads and it doesnt get any press coverage but because it was an olympic vehicle its big news.

Strange that seeing as what event is happening at the moment and the vehicle involved :roll:

It now will bring to the to attention of the masses the number of cyclists killed on London roads this year.

jonny_trousers

vermin wrote:

dhope wrote:

Some very sensible and laudable words

RIP to the cyclist who, apparently as a direct result of his own actions, got himself killed. This is another terribly depressing example of the dangers of cycling in the city without adequate training/experience.

Cycling through major cities, especially ones like London that were designed and built before traffic volumes increased to their current levels, is inherently dangerous.

Wearing helmets makes it safer. Quality equipment makes it safer. Good training makes it safer. Experience makes it safer. Confident positioning makes it safer. Thinking makes it safer. I fail to understand counter-arguments.

My condolences to his family.

Sadly, +1

I'm seeing some shockingly dangerous cycling on London streets this week.

spasypaddy

Gazzaputt wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

what does annoy me is this is a regular occurrence on our roads and it doesnt get any press coverage but because it was an olympic vehicle its big news.

Strange that seeing as what event is happening at the moment and the vehicle involved :roll:

It now will bring to the to attention of the masses the number of cyclists killed on London roads this year.

i think you're missing my point. This shouldnt be big news because its the olympics it should be big news because someone died. It should never be a side note on the BBC website when it happens at other times.

So what it was an Olympic Vehicle, it was still a bus.

petemadoc

Peat wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

There is a clear recurring theme with cyclists riding up the inside of big vehicles and deaths. If I didn't keep an eye on this forum then I wouldn't know about the dangers.

Good point.

Currently, the only formal training we get is a cycling proficiency course at what, age 7-8?

How about a stage 2 compulsory course for school leavers at 16? Even if they had no interest in cycling ever again, it might help educate them as car driver's.

I think there needs to be a campaign to educate all cyclists of all ages now. Don't ride up the inside of buses and lorries... EVER!!!

It's not a problem I have to deal with out in the country but I read about it all the time. Seems to be almost a weekly occurrence.

peat

spasypaddy wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

It should never be a side note on the BBC website when it happens at other times.
.

Come along, the news isn't obliged to report every death in the UK every day. It would take hours.

bails87

First off, condolences to the families involved. What a horrible thing to happen. That account on Reddit made it a little bit more human and personal

vermin wrote:

SteppenHerring wrote:

This might be an unpopular opinion but in a lot of cases, I think existing cycle lanes encourage this sort of dangerous behaviour - riding on the left up the inside of traffic that might be turning

Agreed

Also agree completely.

I'm in the process of helping a mate (newbie cyclist) choose a bike for his london commute and I put in bold at the end of the email

… never EVER go down the left hand side of a lorry/bus/coach. Even if the lights are red, there’s a “safe” cyclelane down the left hand side and the vehicle is indicating right. Apologies if it sounds patronising, but I see people who look like they should know better doing it and cringe, it’s about the most dangerous thing you can do. If you’re in any doubt whatsoever about what a big vehicle is going to do, if you don’t have a clear escape route then just sit behind and wait.

Cyclelanes down the left hand side of left turn lanes are so dangerous. I fail to see the point of about 95% of on road cyclelanes to be honest. They seem to make drivers give less space: "as long as I'm over the line I'm far enough away", but when the lane is a couple of feet wide I'm riding at the edge of it just to avoid the drains. Then they reach a junction and direct cyclists who don't know any better into the 'tunnel of death' down the left hand side.

jzed

spasypaddy wrote:

what does annoy me is this is a regular occurrence on our roads and it doesnt get any press coverage but because it was an olympic vehicle its big news.

It was a bus full of media. Bound to hit the news.

bails87

Peat wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

It should never be a side note on the BBC website when it happens at other times.
.

Come along, the news isn't obliged to report every death in the UK every day. It would take hours.

I think they are in Ireland, for road deaths anyway. Apparently it had a big impact in reducing road deaths because people were more aware of the dangers.

bigmat

DonDaddyD wrote:

With media training Wiggins might have remained more objective and kept his more personal opinions to himself. Like it or not his new stature means he has to be careful about what he says in public about cycling and the sport in general.

Being as outspoken as he is will eventually land him in trouble ruin his public image. Not least you of which, what he has been reported as saying may come across as insensitive to the lay person.

Why would we want him to have media training? So we just got a load of banal soundbites creared by his press officer - yawn. The lack of media training is what makes cyclists so much more interesting than footballers and the like.

As for his comments, well I don't think helmets should be compulsory but then I always wear one so it wouldn't affect me if they were. Maybe it wasn't the best time to make such a comment, but its a damn sight better saying that than saying "cyclists shouldn't go down the left of large vehicles" when we don't know the full details of the incident. At least by focusing on an issue that appears to be completely irrelevant to the poor guy's death it avoided victim blaming.

RIP

clarkey cat

TFL lorry blind spots film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzL0Kyk4m-8

spasypaddy

Peat wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

It should never be a side note on the BBC website when it happens at other times.
.

Come along, the news isn't obliged to report every death in the UK every day. It would take hours.

no but if they reported deaths like this it would reduce deaths as people would become more aware of the dangers of filtering down the left of big vehicles.