cyclist killed - opinions on helmets,blame and education

Yukirin

just heard this on the news. My thoughts go out to his friends and family!

http://news.sky.com/story/967839/cyclis ... lympic-bus

stay safe, everyone!

*title edit to represent actual content contributed to the thread.*

woodye11

I'm so angry.. I had written and sent video to Newham, and Waltham Forest Council, The Olympics Committee a year ago to state how inadequate the cycle lanes were around the edges of the Olympic park, in particular Eastway where heavy goods vehicles use New Spitalfields Market and the proposed Bus Terminal would be for coaches for the Olympics. I was told they were sufficient. Believe me they are non existent. Tonight a man was killed on his cycle minutes ahead of me on this very route. A day when we should be celebrating cycling in Britain, there has been billions spent on the Olympics and all they provide for cyclists around the edges (when we are all being encouraged to 'get on our bikes' and cycle there) of the fenced off park is a painted white line. Where the cyclist was hit there isn't even that, its a very dangerous junction, especially where you have coach drivers from out of town who don't know roads, or used to looking out for cyclists. I'm just sickened.

Cleat Eastwood

That is so sad - on such a fantastic day for cycling too. Deepest sympathies.

HebdenBiker

woodye11 wrote:

I'm so angry.. I had written and sent video to Newham, and Waltham Forest Council, The Olympics Committee a year ago to state how inadequate the cycle lanes were around the edges of the Olympic park, in particular Eastway where heavy goods vehicles use New Spitalfields Market and the proposed Bus Terminal would be for coaches for the Olympics. I was told they were sufficient. Believe me they are non existent. Tonight a man was killed on his cycle minutes ahead of me on this very route. A day when we should be celebrating cycling in Britain, there has been billions spent on the Olympics and all they provide for cyclists around the edges (when we are all being encouraged to 'get on our bikes' and cycle there) of the fenced off park is a painted white line. Where the cyclist was hit there isn't even that, its a very dangerous junction, especially where you have coach drivers from out of town who don't know roads, or used to looking out for cyclists. I'm just sickened.

Make no mistake Woody - I share your dismay at another pointless road death - but I'm not sure whether your complaint about lack of cycle lanes gets to the heart of the matter. We cyclists do not need to be kept in our own lane for our protection. We just need drivers to drive safely around us. That applies just as much if the road is busy/narrow/full of HGVs.

veronese68

I was going to write something on anti-rants about what a great day today has been. Having read this. Today is not so great, I'd prefer to have that one person alive and forget the rest. RIP and condolences to you and yours.

redvee

This, from somebody who saw the accident happen and was with the casualty at the end.

Click with caution. No images, just words.

http://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comme ... _his_last/

prj45

Is this story about what Wiggins said on this a joke? If not my respect for the wiggo has just dopped by orders of magnitude:

http://news.sky.com/story/967839/cyclis ... lympic-bus

Speaking at a news conference shortly after the incident, Britain's cycling gold medallist Bradley Wiggins called for safety helmets to be made compulsory.

He said: "It's dangerous and London is a busy city and a lot of traffic. I think we have to help ourselves sometimes.

"Cycling is a dangerous sport. I know there are a lot of people out there who ride bikes who abide by everything, the laws the lights and things.

"But there are a lot of cyclists as well who don't help themselves, riding along with no helmets on, iPods on, this, that and the other on those Bojo things.

"There's got to be laws that protect both parties. Things like legalising helmets, making them the law to wear. They shouldn't be riding along with phones and iPods on, shouldn't be riding without lights."

nich

Condolences to the family and friends.

tonyf34

Extremely sad situation for the cyclists family and the chap who was at the scene but to compound matters Wiggins has opened up a massive can of worms with little actual thought it seems..frankly as a non helmet wearer for over 30 years I feel badly let down now :evil:

nich

Aye he has.

Do we know what caused the accident yet?

prj45

tonyf34 wrote:

Extremely sad situation for the cyclists family and the chap who was at the scene but to compound matters Wiggins has opened up a massive can of worms with little actual thought it seems..frankly as a non helmet wearer for over 30 years I feel badly let down now :evil:

He's being drubbed on twitter for this.

Some people saying the quotes aren't linked to the crash though, so he still has a chance to not look like a complete twat.

beverick

nich wrote:

Aye he has.

Do we know what caused the accident yet?

If the account in Redvee's post is to believed, the cyclist was cutting down the side of the bus at a junction.

"[He]....was cycling level with me and as we approached a bus he went inside while I held back. The lights changed as he was in the buses blind spot and as he was attempting to go straight the bus turned left. He didn't really have anywhere to go and no time to do anything anyway..."

Bob

airbag

what the hell wiggins? why the fuck would you ruin a great day like that by spouting authoritarian nonsense about a subject that, save for the fact it uses the same vehicle, has nothing to do with your sport? God, stuff like this is so predictable when you're putting hundreds of new cyclists with little road sense onto badly designed, congested roads. What do you do? Maybe seek to increase awareness of the most common errors so people are less likely to make them? Call for designs that minimise the chances of this happening? Both? No, wear a helmet. That sure saved the poor sod's life whose torso was turned into soup because he didn't know that riding up the inside of a large vehicle at a junction is suicide :roll:.

Farkity fuck fuck fuck. Just fuck.

rubertoe

Not the time nor the place for the helmet debate.

condolences to the family and be safe people.

Ginjafro

rubertoe wrote:

Not the time nor the place for the helmet debate.

condolences to the family and be safe people.

+1

CiB

I agree with the views on Wiggins. If he did say what he said in relation to this death he said it from a position of not knowing the full facts, and if it's just an opinion he holds why bring it out now? Everyone knows it's one of the most divisive aspects of cycling going.

5Live were desperate to make something of it this morning with invitations to send in your pointless unnecessary anecdotes to prove how vital helmets are. After a flurry of 'gawd a helmet saved my life' and a 'all cyclists should pay tax and take mandatory tests' I switched it off. How to take the edge of a great victory? Toss the helmet debate into the mix.

Terrible for the cyclist who was killed and his family. A salutary lesson (as if we need another) about not going down the blind side of large vehicles.

DonDaddyD

The link in Redvee's post states that the cyclist went up the inside....

My thoughts go to the rider's friends and family.

2 riders down - that we know of - in a week or so is dreadful.

More thoughts on the overall issue in general:

Wiggins, if he is going to be the face man of British cycling, needs media training.

Road users, all of us, need - it needs to be all inclusive - training and educating maybe some form of testing and an awareness campaign. Personally think 'cyclist and single person vehicles' should be its own section on the hazard awareness test.

Its actions like going up the left and cycle lane layouts that invite you to do so which is why I don't think the onus should be on the motorist to always ensure the cyclists safety. We are responsible and accountable for our own actions.

Something is missing though, this shouldn't be happening as much as it does.

Pufftmw

prj45 wrote:

Is this story about what Wiggins said on this a joke? If not my respect for the wiggo has just dopped by orders of magnitude:

http://news.sky.com/story/967839/cyclis ... lympic-bus

Speaking at a news conference shortly after the incident, Britain's cycling gold medallist Bradley Wiggins called for safety helmets to be made compulsory.

He said: "It's dangerous and London is a busy city and a lot of traffic. I think we have to help ourselves sometimes.

"Cycling is a dangerous sport. I know there are a lot of people out there who ride bikes who abide by everything, the laws the lights and things.

"But there are a lot of cyclists as well who don't help themselves, riding along with no helmets on, iPods on, this, that and the other on those Bojo things.

"There's got to be laws that protect both parties. Things like legalising helmets, making them the law to wear. They shouldn't be riding along with phones and iPods on, shouldn't be riding without lights."

I listened to the interview on LBC this morning and he also said that "I am probably too p1$$ed to be making comments on something as serious as this", so give the bloke a break. He's had a great day, he's had a few sherbets to celebrate his victory then whilst the party is still going on this unfortunate accident occured. He then gets hounded by some newsie ( :roll: ) as the font of all things cycling. Of course its going to be garbled and I'm sure there will be a more considered statement out today. The man is human after all.

TheEnglishman

CiB wrote:

Terrible for the cyclist who was killed and his family. A salutary lesson (as if we need another) about not going down the blind side of large vehicles.

This.

Everything else is irrelevant right now.

greg66_tri_v2.0

beverick wrote:

nich wrote:

Aye he has.

Do we know what caused the accident yet?

If the account in Redvee's post is to believed, the cyclist was cutting down the side of the bus at a junction.

"[He]....was cycling level with me and as we approached a bus he went inside while I held back. The lights changed as he was in the buses blind spot and as he was attempting to go straight the bus turned left. He didn't really have anywhere to go and no time to do anything anyway..."

Bob

Why do some riders have difficulty in appreciating the danger of putting themselves in that sort of position?

greg66_tri_v2.0

prj45 wrote:

tonyf34 wrote:

Extremely sad situation for the cyclists family and the chap who was at the scene but to compound matters Wiggins has opened up a massive can of worms with little actual thought it seems..frankly as a non helmet wearer for over 30 years I feel badly let down now :evil:

He's being drubbed on twitter for this.

Some people saying the quotes aren't linked to the crash though, so he still has a chance to not look like a complete fool.

What would you have him say?

peat

Pufftmw wrote:

I listened to the interview on LBC this morning and he also said that "I am probably too p1$$ed to be making comments on something as serious as this", so give the bloke a break. He's had a great day, he's had a few sherbets to celebrate his victory then whilst the party is still going on this unfortunate accident occured. He then gets hounded by some newsie ( :roll: ) as the font of all things cycling. Of course its going to be garbled and I'm sure there will be a more considered statement out today. The man is human after all.

Exactly what i was thinking. He's sat there in a press conference to celebrate great achievements and some bl00dy journo throws him a question out of left-field that is loosely related to his sport and he didn't have a polished, considered answer pre-prepared. In hindsight, he would have been better off declining to comment, but the media would have made minced meat out of that too.

Condolences to the family of the rider, but also spare a thought for the bus driver who's life will also been irrevocably changed by this event.

Sharkyssurfers

to be honest the helmet would not of saved him but a flashing light on the front could of, as that could be a distraction to the bus driver to realise something could be there. I don't see why everyone has to be negative in his comments, at the end of the day its something we all debate about, just because he is in the high of the media at the moment doesn't deserve for him to be harassed on twitter or news channels about his point of view on a matter that was given to him at the last minute, give the guy a break hes just won us gold the tdf and on a high!

chilling

Sad news about the cyclist, however the accident happened.

Wiggins has always advocated wearing helmets. Maybe it's something to do with having to wear one for his day job and the number of smashed ones he see's during the year when people have come off in races. I bet Cav was glad of his helmet in the Tour.

I though those quotes looked very familiar, he say's pretty much the same thing in this interview so I guess it's just where he stands on the issue. It's not like he's one to mince his words.

What about the safety aspects that go along with that?
Cycling is fantastic, it’s healthy and everything but people have to help themselves a little bit as well and they have to realise sometimes that they are on the road on a bike and there is a certain amount of responsibility they have to take like wearing a helmet, not wearing an iPod and all those things. I think certain laws may have to be passed as well, maybe having a rear light, wearing a helmet, once cyclists start helping themselves like that then they’ll have more protection and rights against drivers. If someone gets killed in a bus lane on a BoJo (Boris Bike) with no helmet and their iPod on then they haven’t really got a leg to stand on.

http://www.thefootdown.co.uk/2012/07/12/bradley-wiggins-fred-perry-interview/

Koncordski

Tragic. If it could have been avoided then there's lessons to be learnt later on, right now the only thing that matters is that somebody's son/partner/father isn't coming home. Ride safe people.

anonymousblackfg

I agree, not the place for a helmet debate or our need to ride safely and with common sense, there are enough other threads on this, I do though think Wiggo would be burnt by the press whatever he said on the issue.

RIP

airbag

Pufftmw wrote:

I listened to the interview on LBC this morning and he also said that "I am probably too p1$$ed to be making comments on something as serious as this"

Now that's the smart thing to say. If you don't have a strong opinion, that you are prepared to defend, there's nothing wrong with not giving one. In fact it's commendable.

peat

I have never really got why the 'Helmet' debate is so contentious.

"A helmet wouldn't have saved him" - True, but a seatbelt wouldn't save you if your car was hit by a train either. Yet, we all wear them.

pete54

His comments made me furious. He may have made them off the cuff but I think he needs to give a more considered response when he's sobered up. The reality is that the news headlines are 'brad says cyclists should be compelled to wear helmets', the implication being that if we all do then the roads will suddenly become a safe place to be.

apreading

Peat wrote:

I have never really got why the 'Helmet' debate is so contentious.

"A helmet wouldn't have saved him" - True, but a seatbelt wouldn't save you if your car was hit by a train either. Yet, we all wear them.

Me neither - I think if it became law, we would have some whinging for a while but everyone would get used to it as we have with seatbelts and it would become a non-issue quite quickly.

I can see how it feels 'nicer' cycling without one, but what is a game changer for me is if you have children. I wanted my kids to wear a helmet and thought I couldnt insist on this unless I wore one. Then I got used to it and now wouldnt ride without one. I have gone out and spent a chunk of money on a really good one, which is light and has better airflow than my original one - so I dont get so hot and sweraty.

As I said - I think having kids changes your view on risk and mortality. How many of those that dont want to wear helmets would not want their kids to wear one? Having said that, I dont say we need to wrap them in cotton wool - it worries the hell out of me some of the MTB stuff that my son does but I know I need to let him do it and just make sure he is careful to stay within his level and progress at his own speed rather than trying to go beyond his experience/ability.

rolf_f

pete54 wrote:

His comments made me furious. He may have made them off the cuff but I think he needs to give a more considered response when he's sobered up.

Furious? Really? You need to do something about your blood pressure or you'll get a heart attack. As others have said, we have no idea what Wiggins knew of the incident. Moron reporter says to slightly unsober Wiggins 'An Olympic bus ran over a cyclist - he got killed - he wasn't wearing a helmet'. This is likely to get a different response to the info we've got of this horrible event.