The official TrainerRoad thread

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  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    johnnybike wrote:
    I know this is the TR thread but by definition there will be a lot of experience of trainers on here and also what works well AND CONSISTENTLY with TR software

    I have thought of 3 alternatives
    KickR - keep cassette and replace my Campag Mirage with 10sp Shimano 105 or similar - again very expensive and I dont want to do that.

    Buy a 'simple trainer' - looked at KK RnRoll or one of the Elite Mag ones - advantage is that it saves a lot of money but I did fancy the consistency of not using a real wheel at all and just hooking the bike onto a static frame

    The other thought is buying a dedicated training bike with 10spd Shimano on and using that with either a KickR or Eolite trainer. That does give me some advantages and I am happy to do that. Not sure how much it would cost me to get one though - it would be for indoor use only so I dont need anything special

    I will be buying a new road bike next year so I dont really want to be spending money on my current bike. Any ideas appreciated of what is best and which 'simple ' style trainer is the most recommneded one . The KK RnR seems expensive for just the ability to move the framer from side to side.
    Sorry I am not particularly techy in terms of what works with what.
    You've come up with some expensive options there!
    If you go for what seems the cheapest option - just a turbo - then the Kurt Kinetic supposedly gives good consistency/repeatability to the TrainerRoad virtual power calibration curve. Obviously consistency is what you want. I've been using a KK turbo for a couple of years and it certainly feels consistent. Obviously you need to get the set up as consistent as you can, but I find it easy to achieve. Pump up the tyre to the same pressure each Monday night, and always use the same number of turns on the wheel clamp.
    Why were you looking at the Rock 'n' Roll? Did you specifically want the side to side movement? I use the KK Road Machine which is a fair bit cheaper and I don't personally feel I'm missing anything. They both use the same resistence unit.
    Cheers,
    MarkP
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • nzhendo
    nzhendo Posts: 12
    MarkP80 wrote:
    I don't have wifi in my flat so I use a 3G mobile dongle. After the comments from everyone I wondered if that was causing interference, so I tried tonight without using it. Result - no drop out at all.
    So, it's not necessary the solution, but it passed the first test. I'll continue to train without it and see if I have any further issues.
    Thanks for the suggestions,
    MarkP

    I'm using a mobile dongle, garmin ant+ usb stick and my macbook plonked on an ironing board to the side of the bike and I don't seem to have an issues so far...
  • moscowflyer
    moscowflyer Posts: 540
    Just did my first 20 minute test with my new Stages meter. Did one TR workout yesterday which had the Stages an average of 8w lower than the VP on my KK Road Machine, so set up two machines side by side for this test to see how the FTP scores matched up.

    This was with the Stages;
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

    This was using virtual power;
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

    8w difference in the final FTP score, 301 for the VP (an increase of 1 since my last test back in November) against 293 for Stages. I tend to shift around a fair bit when my plums go numb so there were quite a few spikes with the Stages, but I'm fairly happy that they're not worlds apart in terms of overall numbers. I'll just ditch the VP altogether now.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    MoscowFlyer wrote:
    Just did my first 20 minute test with my new Stages meter. Did one TR workout yesterday which had the Stages an average of 8w lower than the VP on my KK Road Machine, so set up two machines side by side for this test to see how the FTP scores matched up.

    This was with the Stages;
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

    This was using virtual power;
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

    8w difference in the final FTP score, 301 for the VP (an increase of 1 since my last test back in November) against 293 for Stages. I tend to shift around a fair bit when my plums go numb so there were quite a few spikes with the Stages, but I'm fairly happy that they're not worlds apart in terms of overall numbers. I'll just ditch the VP altogether now.

    Good comparision.
    If you use NP, then there is a 5 watt reduction in using an actual power meter.
    In the grand scheme of things, I think the people at Trainer Road can still congratulate themselves for producing a model like Virtual Power that you can have confidence in.
  • johnnybike
    johnnybike Posts: 75
    What I would take from MoscowFlyers tests are that you can get pretty approximate results from the TR VP model for individual trainers and all most of us want is a consistent set of tests so we can determine improvements - because we will never go backwards will we :)
  • Nobby Nic
    Nobby Nic Posts: 119
    MoscowFlyer wrote:
    Just did my first 20 minute test with my new Stages meter. Did one TR workout yesterday which had the Stages an average of 8w lower than the VP on my KK Road Machine, so set up two machines side by side for this test to see how the FTP scores matched up.

    Hi, did you still use 5 full 360 turns from wheel making contact with fly wheel to set the resistance ?. Last time I posted the question, there seemed to be a slight mix of advice.
  • moscowflyer
    moscowflyer Posts: 540
    Nobby Nic wrote:
    MoscowFlyer wrote:
    Just did my first 20 minute test with my new Stages meter. Did one TR workout yesterday which had the Stages an average of 8w lower than the VP on my KK Road Machine, so set up two machines side by side for this test to see how the FTP scores matched up.

    Hi, did you still use 5 full 360 turns from wheel making contact with fly wheel to set the resistance ?. Last time I posted the question, there seemed to be a slight mix of advice.

    Yes, I've always kept all the variables the same, so 110psi in a Conti hometrainer tyre and five full turns of the dial from when the flywheel is just about in contact with the tyre, which is exactly what TR recommend for the Road Machine.
  • spearmint_wino
    spearmint_wino Posts: 109
    After completing the SweetSpot Base 1 program (and having a week's holiday) I've just done the Sufferfest Rubber Glove 20min FTP test and have gone from 245w to 285w, better than I tested after last year's Etape and the training I'd done for that so happy bunny here.

    I guess what it does mean is that the advanced century program I'm about to start is going to be that much harder though... :lol:

    Strangely it is also recommending my LTHR goes down to 149 from 162. What does that signify? (if anything?)
  • fukawitribe
    fukawitribe Posts: 109
    Not been on here a while, but just finished 8DC and wanted to see if/how folk got on - fairly sure a few on here will have done it. I thought the mountain bits weren't so bad this year this year, but the circuits..... oh man I hate sprinting..

    ..and there was me wondering about getting a Pro flywheel for the Road Machine :roll:
  • cerv50
    cerv50 Posts: 272
    fukawitribe wrote:
    Not been on here a while, but just finished 8DC and wanted to see if/how folk got on - fairly sure a few on here will have done it. I thought the mountain bits weren't so bad this year this year, but the circuits..... oh man I hate sprinting..

    ..and there was me wondering about getting a Pro flywheel for the Road Machine :roll:

    No pro flywheel, tut tut lol

    Rest day yesterday to aid recovery following 8DC and back on it today for some fun and would you believe it, I got myself 2 little awards :) I couldn't keep the pace in the penultimate section but nailed the sprints so am chuffed to bits.
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... -Pain-Cave

    I have altered my weight too as its gone up in the last 6 months but I have visually lost body fat so it must be muscle coming on at last.
  • cerv50
    cerv50 Posts: 272
    Just completed my first FTP 8 minute test following 8DC and found it pretty tough. I'm sure my legs have not fully recovered yet, I had 2 days rest following "the pain cave" on Tuesday where I got 2 little trophies for myself. I seem to do better with only 1 days rest which is a bit strange, anyone else find this to be the case?

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

    Even though my FTP has gone down 22 points it is going to make me even more determined to get it back up again. Being that this is the lowest it has ever been since I started using TR every workout from now on should put me in a positive frame of mind as I now should be able to hit every FTP effort with some comfort and anything over FTP will bring a huge smile to my face. I was finding that with the FTP at 273 that I couldn't hit the targets required and would either have to turn the % down to match them or I would come off the trainer feeling pretty down about my efforts.
  • johnnybike
    johnnybike Posts: 75
    Why were you looking at the Rock 'n' Roll? Did you specifically want the side to side movement? I use the KK Road Machine which is a fair bit cheaper and I don't personally feel I'm missing anything. They both use the same resistence unit.
    Cheers,
    MarkP

    KK Road Warrior 2 purchased. 1 months free Trainer Road included. GSC10 speed/cadence purchased but not fitted. Awaiting ant+ dongle and on holiday next week so early June I will be starting to get onto the Trainer Road rides.
  • fukawitribe
    fukawitribe Posts: 109
    cerv50 wrote:
    Just completed my first FTP 8 minute test following 8DC and found it pretty tough. I'm sure my legs have not fully recovered yet

    I'm sure it's different for everyone in details, but i'd give it at least a week of taking it easy in general after 8-9 straight, hard though that is. Fun though they are, i'd also avoid doing big on-off sprints in particular. There is some useful stuff in here

    http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/07/training/checking-your-intensity_59521

    and i'm sure Chad @ trainerroad would give advice if asked. Good luck with your stuff, i'm still getting back to where you've dropped down to - partly because I think I go better at 20 min FTP tests than 2 x 8min and get an inflated figure I can't cope with in Sufferfest vids :)
  • cerv50
    cerv50 Posts: 272
    fukawitribe wrote:
    cerv50 wrote:
    Just completed my first FTP 8 minute test following 8DC and found it pretty tough. I'm sure my legs have not fully recovered yet

    I'm sure it's different for everyone in details, but i'd give it at least a week of taking it easy in general after 8-9 straight, hard though that is. Fun though they are, i'd also avoid doing big on-off sprints in particular. There is some useful stuff in here

    http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/07/training/checking-your-intensity_59521

    and i'm sure Chad @ trainerroad would give advice if asked. Good luck with your stuff, i'm still getting back to where you've dropped down to - partly because I think I go better at 20 min FTP tests than 2 x 8min and get an inflated figure I can't cope with in Sufferfest vids :)

    Thanks for the link, interesting reading.

    My last FTP test was done using the 20 minute and I seem to remember it being a little easier to complete due to the lower power needed. The 8 minute test is so full on it takes it out of your mentally as well as physically.
  • steve6690
    steve6690 Posts: 190
    Following the completion of 8DC which I didn't find as hard as I expected I did a 20 minute ftp test yesterday. It's now at 186. 3 months back it was set at 138 and I was struggling to complete workouts on the 40k TT plan at that ftp setting. I bumped it up to 160 halfway through 8DC but clearly that wasn't enough.
    Pretty pleased, as I'd set myself a target of getting it to 200 by the end of this year. 250 looks possible now.
    Back on the 40k TT plan next week. It's going to be hard again :D
  • Kupepe
    Kupepe Posts: 76
    Hello,

    Yesterday I did my 8 min test so I can start a sweetspot base training plan. I have been using Virtual Power with Tacx Blue Motion Resistance 5 This is the result of the training :

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

    Questions:

    The FTP on my profile still remains at 200 after the test has been taken. Shouldn't it be adjusted according to the 8 min test results ?

    When I am doing a training session should i plan to follow the Target/Actual green line nomatter what cadence I am using ? 90 Cadence in any ring but the small of the chainset and big ring in the back gives power over 80-100 and as a result the program says that I am way off my targets as % from a stage of the training.

    Thank you
  • Bokoshoko
    Bokoshoko Posts: 20
    Kupepe wrote:
    Hello,
    Questions:

    The FTP on my profile still remains at 200 after the test has been taken. Shouldn't it be adjusted according to the 8 min test results ?

    When I am doing a training session should i plan to follow the Target/Actual green line nomatter what cadence I am using ? 90 Cadence in any ring but the small of the chainset and big ring in the back gives power over 80-100 and as a result the program says that I am way off my targets as % from a stage of the training.

    Thank you

    The 8 minute test should offer you a new LTHR and FTP when it completes and uploads. Having said that you did run pretty close to the target power which is what it will show based on your FTP of 200. You can do it manually; take the average of the 2 8 minute intervals, subtract 10% and that is the FTP that TR would suggest.

    The target power is what you should be trying to follow, adjusting cadence/gearing as appropriate. Many of the workouts will recommend you use a cadence 85RPM or higher but some of this is personal preference and of course if you need to pedal at 60RPM because the target power is so low then so be it.
  • tazmon
    tazmon Posts: 107
    Did my first 8 minute test last night. My power on the 8 minute efforts is rather erratic - is the test valid or should I do another one?

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

    Also does anyone have any suggestions regarding a plan to follow - looking to train for hilly sportives and also a climb up Holmes Moss in early July.

    Cheers
    Rory
    Road - Scott Solace
    Mountain - Santa Cruz Tazmon (retro) and Scott Spark
  • littledove44
    littledove44 Posts: 871
    Your cadence is very consistent, but your power varies a lot. Were you changing gear a lot, or fiddling around trying to find something comfortable?

    Ideally, you should stick with the same gear during the 8 minute bit.

    In your situation I would probably do another test. Testing is training after all.

    Having said that, you could just get going on Sweet Spot Base and adjust the FTP if your result changes.
  • tazmon
    tazmon Posts: 107
    Yep I switching between a couple of gears as I couldn't sustain the cadence in the harder gear, I think if I'd reduced the cadence in that gear I'd have burnt out quicker than changing to an easier gear. I need to swap bikes on the trainer soon so I'll do another test at that point and aim for more consistent power over the 8 minute periods.

    Cheers
    Rory
    Road - Scott Solace
    Mountain - Santa Cruz Tazmon (retro) and Scott Spark
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    tazmon wrote:
    Did my first 8 minute test last night. My power on the 8 minute efforts is rather erratic - is the test valid or should I do another one?

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

    Also does anyone have any suggestions regarding a plan to follow - looking to train for hilly sportives and also a climb up Holmes Moss in early July.

    Cheers
    Rory
    As a test it's a test. I can see where fatigue got the better of you as your pacing went awry
  • danridesbikes
    danridesbikes Posts: 170
    man you spend a lot of time on the turbo :D
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    danridesbikes wrote:
    man you spend a lot of time on the turbo :D
    If you saw the state of the lanes and roads around me...and Cannondale fret about wear and tear on the turbo...they aint done the descent thru Alsagers Bank with its parked cars, mobility scooters and a road surface not having been touched since 1959 and with its 15% sections!
  • danridesbikes
    danridesbikes Posts: 170
    haha the UK's roads are indeed terrible, i was only moaning yesterday after having cycles a 2km stretch where they were "chipping" the road, thats not repairing a road, thats bodging!

    in response to the 8min test, indeed you cadence is choppy, this is the last 20 minute test i did,

    (ignore the power figure, the while circ was set to the wrong size)

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... bber-Glove

    not how smooth the cadence/power lines are and how the heart rate data is a gradual increase
  • tazmon
    tazmon Posts: 107
    Thanks all for the advice, I'll try again in a few days and look to hold more consistent power across the 8 minute efforts.

    Cheers
    Rory
    Road - Scott Solace
    Mountain - Santa Cruz Tazmon (retro) and Scott Spark
  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    Well, that's my season ruined. I was out hill walking just over a week ago and fell coming down a path. Thought I'd damaged knee ligaments but it turns out I've broken my leg!
    So, a week in hospital, operation and a plate inserted and now sat at home, wearing a full leg brace. No weight bearing for 6-8 weeks for starters.
    No TrainerRoad for me for a while, just when I felt I was making progress and about to start my first full season in the club TT league :cry:
    Cheers,
    MarkP
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • bobgfish
    bobgfish Posts: 545
    Does anyone else use a Wahoo KickR and do the 20 mins test?

    It switches from ERG (Power mode) to Slope (3) mode automatically for the 20 min session. I seem to struggle to get a gear that means I can ride where I need to. It's either to easy or to hard...I end up yo yoing between gears and power goes up or down by 50 watts. I need it to only change by say 10-15 watts between gears so it's achievable....

    I know that I ride in ERG mode for 10 mins I can pedal maybe 40 watts higher than measured FTP. Not tried a full 20 mins in ERG mode to prove this.

    Suggestions. Make slope mode easier (slope 2)? Can this be set permanently so when it does the auto switch it will remember?

    Thanks
    CyclingInTheLowMountainsOfSchweiz

    CyclingInTheFlatlands
  • supermurph09
    supermurph09 Posts: 2,471
    Did my first FTP test this evening outdoors on my Tacx Flow with my Stages PM hooked up. Not quite the number I was expecting but at least I know! http://tpks.ws/r0bM
    Trainer Road Blog: https://hitthesweetspot.home.blog/

    Cycling blog: https://harderfasterlonger.wordpress.com/

    Blog: https://supermurphtt2015.wordpress.com/

    TCTP: https://supermurph.wordpress.com/
  • johnnybike
    johnnybike Posts: 75
    MarkP80 wrote:
    Well, that's my season ruined. I was out hill walking just over a week ago and fell coming down a path. Thought I'd damaged knee ligaments but it turns out I've broken my leg!
    It's only one leg and you have a spare to pedal with. Seriously - tough luck. Hope the recovery goes well
  • danridesbikes
    danridesbikes Posts: 170
    Supermurph09 wrote:
    Did my first FTP test this evening outdoors on my Tacx Flow with my Stages PM hooked up. Not quite the number I was expecting but at least I know! http://tpks.ws/r0bM

    dont see the value as a negative, see it as a positive as you have a "true" figure to work with

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