The official TrainerRoad thread

Brad123

dw300 wrote:

Brad123 wrote:

I also just started on TR did the 20 minute test this morning. Like the feed back as I am riding.
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test
Now to find a training plan. Like to do 10 mile TT and maybe have a go at a race.
Go any ideas?

Maybe this?

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/plans/97-20-minute-power-accelerator-e3-training-solutions-

Thank you
Was lookig at that one as well. Started it tonight did another 20 minute test. Boy did i feel it. Did not think I was going to finish it.

supermurph09

Appreciate the direction to the flow chart but was wondering if someone could help. 2014 main goal is Hill Climb comps in September/October and that's the discipline I'm specialising in so looking for a plan that would help.

4-5 days a week to train, + Sunday long ride.

I'll still be doing long Sunday club rides as I'll need the endurance for 150 mile Seascale to Whitby CTC on 28th June but the main target is the HC's. Appreicate input on a TR plan to choose. Cheers

dw300

You're the best one to make a plan for yourself if you know what the events are.

Find out how long the climbs are going to take .. 5mins, 8mins, 12, 15? And practice those intervals at a cadence that you will be using on the day. If you're talking 7.5% or over you may end up in the 60-75rpm range, so you need to train for that. If you're gona get out of the saddle and pump it in a bigger gear at any stage, throw a bit of that in too.

You're going to be looking at 2-3 sessions like that a week, with rest or recovery rides on the other days.

gotwood25

Looking at doing the Novice Competitor High Volume plan, not that I am planning on doing any competitive cycling but think there is enough variation in the workouts to improve all aspects of my cycling.

Started with the nice and easy 'Black' last night, although found it much harder than I should have done presumably (hopefully) because adjusted the turbo roller tighter onto my back wheel for no real reason.

Looking forward to Rambaud tomorrow!

wavefront

Thought I'd post here as it's a question that is related to turbo/trainerroad use.

I ride about 9-12hrs a week and am fit, but I've had two very bad colds in December (bed bound), the first kept me off my bike for 2 weeks mid December, then I recovered for a few days for did a ride or two, then on Christmas day went down with another very bad cold, and only yesterday felt well enough to climb back on the bike.

I did a ride today (Fletcher) on Trainerroad, which is a 1.5 hr session for endurance/base which should have been easy, even though I knew my recent illness would have had an effect. I now ride with a power meter, but was surprised at was how high my HR was becoming for what should have still been an endurance ride. My FTP is/was between 240-250, but ramping up to the 187 watts in the session just after the hour, my heart rate was fast approaching my LTHR (163 bpm), so I cut the session short as I'm actually trying to take it easy!

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... 2-Fletcher

My question is, after you've been ill, how do you 're-introduce' yourself to training? On trainerroad do you set it to -10% or something like that until you get back to strength? Do you just shorter 'spins' for a few days first to really ease yourself into it again? Or should I just ignore my HR (I'm not sure I like this idea as in this case it's actually showing something is wrong!)

I'm also away on holiday in a rental apartment at the moment so don't have a fan - how much does that make a difference to you overcooking and your heart having to work harder?

Any thoughts welcome!

napoleond

I 'just ride around' until I feel normal again. Then start 'training'.
My 2013 was wiped out with glandular fever with liver complications. I am only just starting to get back in to it properly. It's taken months.

supermurph09

dw300 wrote:

You're the best one to make a plan for yourself if you know what the events are.

Find out how long the climbs are going to take .. 5mins, 8mins, 12, 15? And practice those intervals at a cadence that you will be using on the day. If you're talking 7.5% or over you may end up in the 60-75rpm range, so you need to train for that. If you're gona get out of the saddle and pump it in a bigger gear at any stage, throw a bit of that in too.

You're going to be looking at 2-3 sessions like that a week, with rest or recovery rides on the other days.

Thanks for this, sometimes the obvious just doesnt hit me in the face like it should! I've got at least 7-8 HC events I'll be entering for so I'll look to mimic those in training. Thanks and all the best.

gavt0333

Doc here, average time for a cold to fully recover is around 17 days according to recent study in BMJ, contrary to previous thinking which was 7-10 days. Go very easy otherwise you could cause yourself a post-viral fatigue episode and be off the bike for longer. Personally I leave it two weeks until going at anything over around 65% FTP for an hour. Hope this helps.

Also, I just upgraded from an elite mag trainer to a cycleops fluid 2. Did anyone else notice a huge difference in the virtual power readings for the fluid 2? It's not staggering but it's significantly higher per HR, say around 40W. It also has a much more realistic ramp-up at the higher end of the work-rate which is much more life-like, but also seems much easier at the bottom end..

tim_wand

Need some help. Here are my last two 8 Min tests , first one is using the Polar setting for my trainer

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test


And this one using the beta curve for my trainer (Cyclops fluid2)

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test


As you can see there really is a massive difference (set up the same for both tests) just using a different virtual power profile, Polar and Beta.

I believe there is a guy called REID on the TR support that if you send him your data , he can calibrate to more accurate readings.

Any advice comments are gladly welcome, I ve not gained 130 watts FTP in 2 months.

gavt0333

Hi Tim,
Having a very similar issue. I gave been doing some reading up on this and it seems the polar option is way off and should be discounted. The beta one seems to be what TR recommend to use although they seem to say the trainer may not be quite as consistent as some in regards to the effects of ambient temperature on the liquid. I'm just going to use the beta option and try and keep conditions as constant as possible for each workout. It's only a "virtual" reading anyway and im not aiming to for out for a power meter when this will suffice for the most part.

tim_wand

gavt0333 wrote:

Hi Tim,
Having a very similar issue. I gave been doing some reading up on this and it seems the polar option is way off and should be discounted. The beta one seems to be what TR recommend to use although they seem to say the trainer may not be quite as consistent as some in regards to the effects of ambient temperature on the liquid. I'm just going to use the beta option and try and keep conditions as constant as possible for each workout. It's only a "virtual" reading anyway and im not aiming to for out for a power meter when this will suffice for the most part.

Have read some articles myself specific to my Turbo, it would appear that neither set of data is particularly accurate, especially at speeds over 20 mph (which is where most of us train), As you say probably best just to use the figures to chart gains , rather than as an absolute measurement (hence virtual power).

I m sure though in the articles I read, there was mention of someone at TR support (READ/ REID?) who could/would calibrate your data if you sent in the tests. (I think the article I was reading though was about 2010 and the link no longer worked.

I m going to stick with it for now, but I was considering a switch to Cyclops Virtual training ( I think Nap is using this ) as I figure as Cyclops make the trainer , they must have accurate power curves, but I don't know if that is just with their powertap/ powerbeam models.

NUFCrichard

So after 7 months without using Trainer Road I finally decided to get back on board yesterday. I have done a 20 min test before, but messed it up last time, going off to hard and lagging. I got a virtual 258 last time, which I increased to 275 or so for workouts. My lactate threshold was 171, about what I expected from outdoor riding. I was quite well trained from outdoor riding at the time.

This time, I haven't ridden for ages, I trained for a marathon straight after the Marmotte and thus have hardly ridden since then. I am now training for a half ironman, so need to get my ass in gear. From yesterday's test my virtual FTP was 265 (higher than expected) but my lactate threshold was 158 (much lower than expected).

Can it be that I am fit from running and swimming, but my cycling legs are the limiting factor, explaining the far lower lactate threshold? I really couldn't go harder, I was really going for it to hold the speed near the end of the 20 mins..

gavt0333

Hi Tim,
Yeah I mean unless we get an actual power meter it will remain unknown. Tempting to hire one but I know i'll just want to buy one once I have it, so better not knowing! Not sure about the Cycleops virtual training as there seem to be mixed reports including no FTP at the moment. I'm quite happy with TR as I doubt any curve is going to be perfect, particularly for the fluid trainers. I really like the fluid 2 for it's much more realistic feel. Makes me realise how poor the Elite Mag is relatively, although it served its purpose.

What training plan, if any, are you doing? I'm making a start on the intermediate base 1. Did Ericsson yesterday which was quite good as a sweet-spot session. Think i'll probably just continue with this plan for the 6 weeks but not sure what to do next.

BTW Richard, surely having a lower lactate threshold means you're getting fitter? I think running is slightly harder on your cardiovascular system than cycling after having done two marathons myself, so I would expect your cardiovascular fitness to go up slightly. Interestingly I read an article somewhere recently that said cardiovascular fitness goes relatively quickly ie. loss of 50% of aerobic capacity after 2-3 weeks off training (of any sort) but the specific muscle you build takes much longer to go, in the region of months to years. This would probably explain why you haven't lost much in the way of FTP even though you haven't done so much bike-specific training recently and why you are actually fitter than when you stopped biking. All good!

gavt0333

I also think Richard if you do more intense cycling specific training again you should have a better aerobic base to work from now compared to before and thus should be able to hit even higher notes in regards to your FTP eventually. As a side note, I have always felt and I have heard others say on some forums that they feel as if their lactate threshold is a bit lower on the bike than running. Not sure whether this is backed by science but I have always felt that i'm working harder running for a given HR than cycling which may seem obvious. Saying that i'm quite heavy so having something to sit on whilst exerting myself has always seemed sensible!

tim_wand

Going to have a look at the training programs again tonight. Work has changed , and although I m working longer the hours are more regular so that helps.

I need to get the volume right 3 sessions a week as I am running every other day, so want to mix it up.
3 session on turbo plus club run on a Sunday, ideally each week, with 3 runs.

Its a shame you cant download a whole training program, its a matter of keeping a list of the program and downloading each session.

I want to give some Sufferfest stuff a go to, most people on here recommend Blender and Angels to start off with.

I agree with you Gav about the Fluid 2 , I love the way it rides, just wish I could get a decent power curve for it.

wavefront

Thanks for your reply both.

NapoleonD wrote:

I 'just ride around' until I feel normal again. Then start 'training'.
My 2013 was wiped out with glandular fever with liver complications. I am only just starting to get back in to it properly. It's taken months.

Glandular fever and liver complications? Wow, I'm not surprised it's taken months, and hope you get back to where you were soon!

gavt0333 wrote:

Doc here, average time for a cold to fully recover is around 17 days according to recent study in BMJ, contrary to previous thinking which was 7-10 days. Go very easy otherwise you could cause yourself a post-viral fatigue episode and be off the bike for longer. Personally I leave it two weeks until going at anything over around 65% FTP for an hour. Hope this helps.

Feeling better by the day, but as I don't want to go backwards again, later in the month, I'll heed your note, and keep all my rides to 'easy maintenance' rather than doing anything remotely strenuous. The good news is that my legs feel fully rested!

cerv50

gavt0333 wrote:

Doc here, average time for a cold to fully recover is around 17 days according to recent study in BMJ, contrary to previous thinking which was 7-10 days. Go very easy otherwise you could cause yourself a post-viral fatigue episode and be off the bike for longer. Personally I leave it two weeks until going at anything over around 65% FTP for an hour. Hope this helps.

Feeling better by the day, but as I don't want to go backwards again, later in the month, I'll heed your note, and keep all my rides to 'easy maintenance' rather than doing anything remotely strenuous. The good news is that my legs feel fully rested!

So depressed after getting over my training slump a few weeks ago have now been pretty much sofa/bed ridden with man flu since Christmas. Same happens every year, take time off work to relax and body shuts down with germs! Even though I'm up and about now I have zero strength, ache all over and my lungs are not up to putting out anymore than to keep me alive... I too will try the advice above, its going to be hard though as so far am nearly 5 weeks behind my current program so have a lot of catching up to do

gavt0333

Colds are the most pointless diseases known! Don't knock you off your feet so you're actually off work but just crap enough to make everyday a struggle from start to finish. I had one myself a few weeks ago and the cough and runny nose seemed to last a lot longer than I felt it should, which is incredibly frustrating as after about a week they're all that's left and part of you feels quite ready to get back on the bike again. I would say not to push it though and think long-term. The more you let yourself get over it, the better the training will be when you finally get back to it.

In other news, i'm waiting on the royal mail man delivering my first ever Brooks saddle! Anyone any experience of them? I've had some issues with saddle-soreness so hope this is going to solve some of the issues.

I also went out on the bike for the first time in a while yesterday as it was so sunny but what I realised is, I am not hill-fit ie. TR makes you very able for flat riding but hills are a different matter. Anyone done any specific hill-type training on the turbo?

Lefthook

Quick newbie question, appreciate any collective wisdom.

I had to make a few adjustment to my trainer set up and as a result I feel it may have altered the results I am getting for my FTP. I know the best option would be to do a FTP test again and just reset to that result. But just want to check it is necessary to do so. I screwed up my last FTP by trying to go out at the suggested level based on my FTP and wether it was because of the changes I had made or I had lost power over the last few months I blew up completely.

So question is this, should my power zones (Endurance,Tempo etc) match to my HR zones? Eg on this ride http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/587153-Mont-Albert the % time spent in Endurance and Tempo zones on the power and HR is different.

I realise that Virtual Power is only a consistent measure rather than an accurate measure, so the advantage of it is to show improvements, not a number to compare with others. So I want to judge wether I have the 'right' number to get the most out of the training plans. I also realise that lots of factors can affect the HR at a set power level, but over several different rides, should the HR and Power zones match up if FTP and LTHR are set correctly? On the last FTP test I blew up on, it recommended dropping my FTP by about 20, but had my LTHR at only 1 different.

Thanks for any input.

narbs

dw300 wrote:

You're the best one to make a plan for yourself if you know what the events are.

Find out how long the climbs are going to take .. 5mins, 8mins, 12, 15? And practice those intervals at a cadence that you will be using on the day. If you're talking 7.5% or over you may end up in the 60-75rpm range, so you need to train for that. If you're gona get out of the saddle and pump it in a bigger gear at any stage, throw a bit of that in too.

You're going to be looking at 2-3 sessions like that a week, with rest or recovery rides on the other days.

This is something that puzzles me.

I few years ago I had a ramp test and got a 12 week training plan to help training for my first Marmotte. All the sessions were set at a minimum cadence of 90 with several sessions aimed at raising cadence to c120.

I was never going to ride up the Galibier at 90rpm but I've yet to see a training plan (either personalised ones for mates or those in mags) that focus on sub-FTP sessions at a cadence of 55-75.

Am I missing something? Off to the Alps again at the end of May and was planning to do plenty of sub 80rpm sessions this time.

dw300

narbs wrote:

This is something that puzzles me.

I few years ago I had a ramp test and got a 12 week training plan to help training for my first Marmotte. All the sessions were set at a minimum cadence of 90 with several sessions aimed at raising cadence to c120.

I was never going to ride up the Galibier at 90rpm but I've yet to see a training plan (either personalised ones for mates or those in mags) that focus on sub-FTP sessions at a cadence of 55-75.

Am I missing something? Off to the Alps again at the end of May and was planning to do plenty of sub 80rpm sessions this time.

The low cadence work would be more specific training to build resistance for the shortish times you'll be at low revs, might also give you a mental boost as the event won't feel so alien. Could also offer a neuro-muscular advantage.

Im guessing it wouldnt be something you'd need to do all year, and your 12 week plan was probably more aimed at overall power and adaptation of your cardio-vascular system The low cadence might just give you 'that edge' when you have a more specific goal.

saleemfarooqui

Another Training plan question here: I have been cycling for about 15months now, did 4k miles including one century, few metrics, and multiple club rides. I am now training for some entry level cat 5 events in the late spring and summer. I have been doing 4-5hrs/week of Z2 trainer rides for past 8-10 weeks without a structured plan, and just signed up for trainerroad.com.

Since I don't have time for the full traditional base 1 and 2, then build phase; and considering the unstructured Z2 "base" indoor work I have been doing, I am thinking of starting with Sweet Spot base for 6weeks, followed by Novice Competitor Low volume for 12 weeks, which would have me peaked right at the first planned event.

Does this sound reasonable? I have one FTP from last month with P/W ratio of 2.68, probably need closer to 3 to compete by spring?

dw300

saleemfarooqui wrote:

Another Training plan question here: I have been cycling for about 15months now, did 4k miles including one century, few metrics, and multiple club rides. I am now training for some entry level cat 5 events in the late spring and summer. I have been doing 4-5hrs/week of Z2 trainer rides for past 8-10 weeks without a structured plan, and just signed up for trainerroad.com.

Since I don't have time for the full traditional base 1 and 2, then build phase; and considering the unstructured Z2 "base" indoor work I have been doing, I am thinking of starting with Sweet Spot base for 6weeks, followed by Novice Competitor Low volume for 12 weeks, which would have me peaked right at the first planned event.

Does this sound reasonable? I have one FTP from last month with P/W ratio of 2.68, probably need closer to 3 to compete by spring?

Sounds like what you are doing is mostly low intensity stuff? I dont know what Cat 5 is like, but I assume if you compete it with just be alternating intervals of balls out and coasting. You will need to improve your top end at some point, so working that in with the low intensity work will probably benefit you.

narbs

dw300 wrote:

The low cadence work would be more specific training to build resistance for the shortish times you'll be at low revs, might also give you a mental boost as the event won't feel so alien. Could also offer a neuro-muscular advantage.

Im guessing it wouldnt be something you'd need to do all year, and your 12 week plan was probably more aimed at overall power and adaptation of your cardio-vascular system The low cadence might just give you 'that edge' when you have a more specific goal.

Yeah, that makes sense, thanks.

I'm definitely going to throw in a few low cadence sessions this year and see if it bears fruit during May's alpine trip.

saleemfarooqui

dw300 wrote:

Sounds like what you are doing is mostly low intensity stuff? I dont know what Cat 5 is like, but I assume if you compete it with just be alternating intervals of balls out and coasting. You will need to improve your top end at some point, so working that in with the low intensity work will probably benefit you.

So, that's the question if those 2 plans I mentioned will be an adequate progression over the next 18 weeks.

Any experience with Sweet Spot Base and Novice Competitor training plans?

Thanks

mikenetic

Completed the 8-minute test session today as a prelude to a couple of blocks of training. Does anyone else find that they run the test at a different cadence to their normal riding rpms?

Typically out on the road I'm turning over at a cadence of 90-100 rpm, but for the test I definitely do my best pushing a harder gear at a lower cadence, more like 80-85.

ExigeR

Does anyone know if TR tell you if the turbo you use has a power curve change or if i can find out if it's been changed, reason i ask is i have a change in power/speed.

This is a 1 min interval from a few months ago first then same from today.

Power 359 Cad 85 HR 159 speed 21.5mph FTP 332
Power 310 Cad 83 HR 154 Speed 22mph FTP 293

I did change my FTP back 335 today from 354 as like i have said before i have been struggling recently, but when i looked at my profile after i stopped the ride it had changed to 293 (which is what the second set of numbers are from)

I don't care about the ftp numbers but it could be the reason why I'm finding things so hard at the moment.

mikenetic

ExigeR wrote:

Does anyone know if TR tell you if the turbo you use has a power curve change or if i can find out if it's been changed, reason i ask is i have a change in power/speed.

This is a 1 min interval from a few months ago first then same from today.

Power 359 Cad 85 HR 159 speed 21.5mph FTP 332
Power 310 Cad 83 HR 154 Speed 22mph FTP 293

I did change my FTP back 335 today from 354 as like i have said before i have been struggling recently, but when i looked at my profile after i stopped the ride it had changed to 293 (which is what the second set of numbers are from)

I don't care about the ftp numbers but it could be the reason why I'm finding things so hard at the moment.

They're normally pretty good with support, so if you drop them a line with your trainer model then if they've changed the power curve in an update I'm sure they'll let you know.

ExigeR

Just sent them a copy.

Thought it was strange when i started the warm up as i had to use a harder gear from the get go.

So i guess somethings not right.

activeuk

Just orderd a wattbike should be here next week what training plan do you think i should start off on doing only about 15 to 20 mile rides so far 2 times a week want to really build the miles up