Canal Towpath - health and safety gone mad?

First.Aspect

cje wrote:

6mph seems a bit ridiculous. As long as you aren't flying along, and you are courteous around pedestrians, you should be okay.

I know, but I don't like being somewhere I'm not welcome. Suprisingly, some pedestrians (usually people walking to work) step out of the way, or say, "You're welcome" when you say thanks. But I've been treated agressively three times now by people who think that the rules give them the right to do so. Its the same as being told to get off the road and use the glass strewn cycle path.

I can only assure you that I am not doing anything abnormal - except perhaps I don't weave in and out like a mad person or cycle with my knees about 3 feet apart, bouncing up and down.

I actually wonder if pedestrians are freaked out if I don't push past at the earliest opportunity and assume that, although I've waited for a while quietly behind them, I must have just arrived at top speed. The only alternative is to ring the bell, and effectively ask people to stop and step aside without justification.

It may also be because I am one of the few "cyclists" using the path - in that my commute is back up to about 8-9 miles, so I appear in full kit alongside a multitude of people wearing day clothes. Perhaps this is why I'm assumed to have been pushing on.

Either way I guess I'll be looking for an alternative route.

rhext

Get yourself a full-suspension bike and a pair of slicks. The speedhumps become 'all part of the fun' then!

Headhuunter

davmaggs wrote:

Peat wrote:

Yeah, i think it's fair enough to restrict bikes on towpaths.

When it's busy, bikes can be a flaming nuisance.

Having been a pedestrian walking down some of the London canals during commute time, I have to say that a high percentage of the cyclists were absolute c****, and deserved to be pushed into the water.

And, I don't say this lightly

Yes, I agree with this. When I lived in Islington and before I picked up cycling again to get around, I used to walk along a canal towpath as part of my route to work and the cyclists were an absolute PITA. They regularly flew along at high speed, barely missing pedestrians, almost running into you from behind etc. I was never actually knocked over but I could easily have been but I was quite quick to jump out of the way.

I got my legs smacked by panniers a few times or my arm whacked by a passing high speed courier bag etc. One time I walked round a puddle on 1 side of the towpath forcing a cyclist coming the other way to brake slightly to let me through, I got an absolute torrent of swearing and abuse for having the temerity to cause him to slow down from approx 15mph or so. Some riders must've easily been reaching 18/19mph on a very busy, narrow towpath, literally passing you with a whisker or room. I'm sure there were quite a few accidents.

I am all for anything restricting cyclists' speed on towpaths, if you want to fly along at almost 20mph, get on the road....

SimonAH

I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but around here the canal paths are a lovely environment with much cheery coexistance between cyclists, walkers and dogists.

They are also steadily refurbing the canal paths with lovely smooth tarmac and even rebuilding some of the locks just for show (non navigable sections) between Newport and Brecon.

What I really don't understand though are the 'cattle crush' gates installed in many places. These are sort of pairs of galvanised hoops set into the ground with a perhaps two foot six spacing at the bottom narrowing to not much above a foot at five foot five above the ground. I can barely squeeze through on a bike but you could easily get a motorcycle or a horse through as most times there is space to drive a car pats outside them??????

Still, I love the canal system round here.

Headhuunter

SimonAH wrote:

I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but around here the canal paths are a lovely environment with much cheery coexistance between cyclists, walkers and dogists.

They are also steadily refurbing the canal paths with lovely smooth tarmac and even rebuilding some of the locks just for show (non navigable sections) between Newport and Brecon.

What I really don't understand though are the 'cattle crush' gates installed in many places. These are sort of pairs of galvanised hoops set into the ground with a perhaps two foot six spacing at the bottom narrowing to not much above a foot at five foot five above the ground. I can barely squeeze through on a bike but you could easily get a motorcycle or a horse through as most times there is space to drive a car pats outside them??????

Still, I love the canal system round here.

Yeah but you live in the country don't you? In London canal towpaths are like mini motorways at rush hour with runners, walkers and cyclists all jostling to get to work... Occasionally you see the odd mum with pushchair and kids or dog walker mixed up in the maelstrom... It's far from idyillic...

First.Aspect

Headhuunter wrote:

Yes, I agree with this. When I lived in Islington and before I picked up cycling again to get around, I used to walk along a canal towpath as part of my route to work and the cyclists were an absolute PITA. They regularly flew along at high speed, barely missing pedestrians, almost running into you from behind etc. I was never actually knocked over but I could easily have been but I was quite quick to jump out of the way.

I got my legs smacked by panniers a few times or my arm whacked by a passing high speed courier bag etc. One time I walked round a puddle on 1 side of the towpath forcing a cyclist coming the other way to brake slightly to let me through, I got an absolute torrent of swearing and abuse for having the temerity to cause him to slow down from approx 15mph or so. Some riders must've easily been reaching 18/19mph on a very busy, narrow towpath, literally passing you with a whisker or room. I'm sure there were quite a few accidents.

I am all for anything restricting cyclists' speed on towpaths, if you want to fly along at almost 20mph, get on the road....

That's fine. I don't want to bomb along at 20mph. I want to pootle along at 10mph. Which is illegal.

Is there any other way I can explain that "not 6mph" does not equal "as fast as I can go"? I didn't think it was a difficult concept, but it seems that I am wrong.

Headhuunter

First Aspect wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Yes, I agree with this. When I lived in Islington and before I picked up cycling again to get around, I used to walk along a canal towpath as part of my route to work and the cyclists were an absolute PITA. They regularly flew along at high speed, barely missing pedestrians, almost running into you from behind etc. I was never actually knocked over but I could easily have been but I was quite quick to jump out of the way.

I got my legs smacked by panniers a few times or my arm whacked by a passing high speed courier bag etc. One time I walked round a puddle on 1 side of the towpath forcing a cyclist coming the other way to brake slightly to let me through, I got an absolute torrent of swearing and abuse for having the temerity to cause him to slow down from approx 15mph or so. Some riders must've easily been reaching 18/19mph on a very busy, narrow towpath, literally passing you with a whisker or room. I'm sure there were quite a few accidents.

I am all for anything restricting cyclists' speed on towpaths, if you want to fly along at almost 20mph, get on the road....

That's fine. I don't want to bomb along at 20mph. I want to pootle along at 10mph. Which is illegal.

Is there any other way I can explain that "not 6mph" does not equal "as fast as I can go"? I didn't think it was a difficult concept, but it seems that I am wrong.

Sorry that want meant to be am attack on you, just a description of my experience of cyclists on towpaths

First.Aspect

Headhuunter wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Yes, I agree with this. When I lived in Islington and before I picked up cycling again to get around, I used to walk along a canal towpath as part of my route to work and the cyclists were an absolute PITA. They regularly flew along at high speed, barely missing pedestrians, almost running into you from behind etc. I was never actually knocked over but I could easily have been but I was quite quick to jump out of the way.

I got my legs smacked by panniers a few times or my arm whacked by a passing high speed courier bag etc. One time I walked round a puddle on 1 side of the towpath forcing a cyclist coming the other way to brake slightly to let me through, I got an absolute torrent of swearing and abuse for having the temerity to cause him to slow down from approx 15mph or so. Some riders must've easily been reaching 18/19mph on a very busy, narrow towpath, literally passing you with a whisker or room. I'm sure there were quite a few accidents.

I am all for anything restricting cyclists' speed on towpaths, if you want to fly along at almost 20mph, get on the road....

That's fine. I don't want to bomb along at 20mph. I want to pootle along at 10mph. Which is illegal.

Is there any other way I can explain that "not 6mph" does not equal "as fast as I can go"? I didn't think it was a difficult concept, but it seems that I am wrong.

Sorry that want meant to be am attack on you, just a description of my experience of cyclists on towpaths

Ironically, if you cycle remotely sensibly, you get overtaken by nodders giving it plenty.

I'm really taken aback by this thread. I can't see any difference between a towpath and other traffic free routes of similar width, with which cyclists share space with pedestrians. Yet even cyclists don't think cyclists should be there.
And it seems that I've singularly failed to convey the distinction between cycling sensibly and slowly, and cycling at walking pace. I guess if you cycle at walking pace, you don't have to worry about giving way to pedestrians.

peat

I'm equally taken aback by why you are getting your knickers in such a twist over some over-thought bureaucracy that's completely un-enforceable. If you cycle sensibly already, you have nothing to worry about. The new 'rules' are not aimed at you, but the nodders who show little or no consideration for the other towpath users.

Around here in Oxfordrshire, the towpaths are primarily for leisure walking etc. I guess that in bigger cities they naturally become a main arterial route for peds & cyclists. If i ride on the tow path here, i never consider a pedestrian to be 'in my way' because i think they should have the right of way (that's not to say that they should be bloody-minded about letting you through...... i digress) because the last thing i would want when enjoying a picturesque wander down the towpath is to be forever looking over my shoulder for the next head-phoned berk on a bike bearing down on me at unabated speed.

So, chill out. If you ride sensible with due care and attention, no one's having a pop at you. It's a shame that the lowest common denominator dictates the 'new' rules, but that's common throughout every facet of life now and speaks volumes of people's evolving sense of 'me, me, me' that, frankly, does my head in.

First.Aspect

I am getting my knickers in a twist because I have been nearly assaulted (one of those cases where a reminder that there are people watching was helpful) and verbally abused on other occasions, in each cases the "rules" being cited as justification. As I have repeatedly explained and acknowleded, they are not enforced nor are they likely enforceable, however they do seem to have helped create an anti cyclist atmosphere. Is that at all understandable?

Dess1e

Headhuunter wrote:

SimonAH wrote:

I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but around here the canal paths are a lovely environment with much cheery coexistance between cyclists, walkers and dogists.

They are also steadily refurbing the canal paths with lovely smooth tarmac and even rebuilding some of the locks just for show (non navigable sections) between Newport and Brecon.

What I really don't understand though are the 'cattle crush' gates installed in many places. These are sort of pairs of galvanised hoops set into the ground with a perhaps two foot six spacing at the bottom narrowing to not much above a foot at five foot five above the ground. I can barely squeeze through on a bike but you could easily get a motorcycle or a horse through as most times there is space to drive a car pats outside them??????

Still, I love the canal system round here.

Yeah but you live in the country don't you? In London canal towpaths are like mini motorways at rush hour with runners, walkers and cyclists all jostling to get to work... Occasionally you see the odd mum with pushchair and kids or dog walker mixed up in the maelstrom... It's far from idyillic...

Totally agree. I occasionally use the Grand Union to get into town on the Pashley, rather then train and Boris bike. However I had the misfortune to use it in rush hour last week. The amount of idiots on bikes who think it is suitable for a training ride or their own personal velodrome was astounding. The worse though was the pratt who didn't look ahead past the guy in front of me and decided to squeeze past him at ~18mph before crashing into me on the narrowest part of the path approaching Kensal Rise. My shoulder is still bruised, and I only just avoided getting wet. No apology either! I can see why draconian rules get enforced and unfortunately sensible riders are the ones that suffer.

thistle_

I've noticed near me that since the demise of British Waterways around a dozen A4 signs have been put up on a short (50m ish) stretch of the Llangollen canal saying 'NO PADDLESPORTS'. The section isn't navigable by narrowboats and has always been very popular with canoes and kayaks.

I wonder if the Canal & River Trust decided to spend their first month rewriting the rules on using canals.

I've not seen any signs around here with speed limits for bikes so I assume the 'be sensible' approach still applies.

Monkeypump

Peat wrote:

I'm equally taken aback by why you are getting your knickers in such a twist over some over-thought bureaucracy that's completely un-enforceable. If you cycle sensibly already, you have nothing to worry about. The new 'rules' are not aimed at you, but the nodders who show little or no consideration for the other towpath users.

Around here in Oxfordrshire, the towpaths are primarily for leisure walking etc. I guess that in bigger cities they naturally become a main arterial route for peds & cyclists. If i ride on the tow path here, i never consider a pedestrian to be 'in my way' because i think they should have the right of way (that's not to say that they should be bloody-minded about letting you through...... i digress) because the last thing i would want when enjoying a picturesque wander down the towpath is to be forever looking over my shoulder for the next head-phoned berk on a bike bearing down on me at unabated speed.

So, chill out. If you ride sensible with due care and attention, no one's having a pop at you. It's a shame that the lowest common denominator dictates the 'new' rules, but that's common throughout every facet of life now and speaks volumes of people's evolving sense of 'me, me, me' that, frankly, does my head in.

+1. Well said Peat.

OP - Just apply some common sense (to riding on towpaths and thread-ranting) and you'll be a happier bunny allround. Sorry if that sounds patronizing, but the amound of effort you've put into this thread seems out of proportion to the actual issue you have.

Corporate Camper

First Aspect wrote:

I am getting my knickers in a twist because I have been nearly assaulted (one of those cases where a reminder that there are people watching was helpful) and verbally abused on other occasions, in each cases the "rules" being cited as justification. As I have repeatedly explained and acknowleded, they are not enforced nor are they likely enforceable, however they do seem to have helped create an anti cyclist atmosphere. Is that at all understandable?

IMO you get "an anti cyclist atmosphere" anywhere where ar$eholes on bikes have regular contact with everyone else. For example; I almost exclusively ride in the countryside these days and I never have any problems with other road users, almost everyone else on a bike is there because they are keen cyclists for leisure/sport/fitness etc.

In contrast, the cities I ride in (Oxford and, to a lesser extent, Milton Keynes) have a pretty high proportion of nobs on bikes and they spoil it for all of us by feeding the anti cyclist atmosphere.

We probably *should* be able to share the canal towpaths in harmony, but if it's hassle then the easy answer is find a different route. I know you mentioned that you are anxious about riding on the roads, but it sounds like you are anxious about riding on the towpaths too...