Canal Towpath - health and safety gone mad?

First.Aspect

Speed limit 6mph
Speed bumps
Traffic calming
Dismount at every road bridge (about every 200m)
Give way to all pedestrians

I estimate that it would be quicker to walk.

Oh, the on water speed limit is 3kts, so Katherine Granger would not be able to legally learn to row there.

What is it like near you?

pastryboy

Where are you referring to?

I just read somewhere that the tow path next to the olympic stadium is closed until September (not sure which bit of it).

First.Aspect

Edinburgh.

pastryboy

Ah, well they're not quite that bad in London. They just have speed bumps before bridges (a fairly recent addition) and lots of signs telling you to give 'two tings'. There's also occasional presence of PCSO's but never seen a speed limit. I used to use Regents canal every day but too many joggers around. As you get further out of London though there's canal path along the Lea where you can pretty much go as quick as you like. Makes for some nice strava segments. Guess it just depends how busy the area is - busy canal path = terrible for bikes.

Does the 6mph mean you're not allowed to go running either?

First.Aspect

No, as far as I can tell, it's perfectly acceptable to Scottish Canals for a rugby team to do sprint training on the canal. But a kid on a skeeter could break the rules.

Stone Glider

I ride canal paths quite frequently and very pleasant they are too. British Waterways have a code of practice which can be summarized as 'pedestrians first and always'. They are welcome,you are not if you are a nuisance.

Once you have accommodated that point of view into your approach you can enjoy. Buy a bell and use it

First.Aspect

I have a bell thanks. I use it. I slow down. I say thanks. Tell me, what are your thought on only being able to cycle a mile in 10 minutes, and that providing you don't meet any other mammals and aren't on a part with any bridges, speed bumps or chicanes. So maybe 12 minutes in reality.

lockstock666

First Aspect wrote:

Speed limit 6mph

But...I don't know how to trackstand? :twisted:

t4tomo

Canal towpaths are for pleasent pootling, not for speedy commuting. That is why we have roads and if you're lucky dedicate cycle paths or share use tarmac paths.

if the surface is anything like our local towpath, you don't want to be going too quick on on it anyway.

BTW your rant should have including fishermen with protruding rods.

peat

Yeah, i think it's fair enough to restrict bikes on towpaths.

When it's busy, bikes can be a flaming nuisance.

davmaggs

Peat wrote:

Yeah, i think it's fair enough to restrict bikes on towpaths.

When it's busy, bikes can be a flaming nuisance.

Having been a pedestrian walking down some of the London canals during commute time, I have to say that a high percentage of the cyclists were absolute c****, and deserved to be pushed into the water.

And, I don't say this lightly

asprilla

Stone Glider wrote:

British Waterways have a code of practice which can be summarized as 'pedestrians first and always'. They are welcome,you are not if you are a nuisance.

British Waterways doesn't exist anymore. In England and Wales it's now managed by a charitable body called the Canal and River Trust, which by all accounts is a bunch of rich busybodies who promote canal and river usage they way they want it and screw everyone else.

First.Aspect

It's advertised as a bike route.

10 or 12mph is pootling. Ringing a bell and slowing down is caution, not getting off an walking.

6 mph is the speed I'm going by the time I've finished clipping in. For those of you agreeing, get a speedometer and see just how pointlessly slow this is. Jogging, not even running, is faster. It's not about caution, it's about persecution.

There are many other shared use facilities in the UK. 12mph is normal even for Brighton sea front. It seems to be normal for Britih Canals (which means England and Wales). It seems to be normal for the river path through Edinburgh which links to the canal. What is different (other than a vocal anti cyclist whinging minority in a wealthy part of town)?

lockstock666

According to runkeeper, my average jog speed is 6.4mph.

6 mph is a ridiculous limit for cycling.

peat

I don't think anyone is going to ping you for speeding so i'd stop obsessing over the numbers.

I think they are aiming at the folk who ride at inappropriate speeds on busy towpaths with no consideration of the peds, who in my opinion, should have right of way on them.

t4tomo

First Aspect wrote:

It's advertised as a bike route.

10 or 12mph is pootling. Ringing a bell and slowing down is caution, not getting off an walking.

6 mph is the speed I'm going by the time I've finished clipping in. For those of you agreeing, get a speedometer and see just how pointlessly slow this is. Jogging, not even running, is faster. It's not about caution, it's about persecution.

There are many other shared use facilities in the UK. 12mph is normal even for Brighton sea front. It seems to be normal for Britih Canals (which means England and Wales). It seems to be normal for the river path through Edinburgh which links to the canal. What is different (other than a vocal anti cyclist whinging minority in a wealthy part of town)?

Do they not have roads nearby you can use instead?

Either accept its going to be a slow route or use a different one. Yes 6mph is slow. but crashing into a pedestrian or a child at 15mph isn't a great result either.

First.Aspect

Yes there are roads. You may have missed the part where I alluded to a serious injury and being afraid of them.
I have never hit a pedestrian at any speed because I go slowly on shared use paths.
6mph is slower than any requirement anywhere that I have ever seen. If you pontificate about needing to be careful on such paths, I would point put that if you used this particular path as carefully as the ones near you, you would be breaking most of the rules.
It is not policed and most likely not enforceable.
If you interpret this thread as "I want to race down the towpath" you haven't read it and you are an idiot.
No other cyclists seem to obey these rules.
Really this is about vile little pale Scottish men shouting at you to get off the roads. Whenyou do so, because some of them are literate, they also shout at you for havin got off the road onto a cycle path. The ridiculous traffic calming plus other rules above are a stick to beat cyclist with an, if my experience is anything to go by, actually make it more dangerous than some more balanced position expounded just about everywhere else.

rjsterry

First Aspect wrote:

Yes there are roads. You may have missed the part where I alluded to a serious injury and being afraid of them.
I have never hit a pedestrian at any speed because I go slowly on shared use paths.
6mph is slower than any requirement anywhere that I have ever seen. If you pontificate about needing to be careful on such paths, I would point put that if you used this particular path as carefully as the ones near you, you would be breaking most of the rules.
It is not policed and most likely not enforceable.
If you interpret this thread as "I want to race down the towpath" you haven't read it and you are an idiot.
No other cyclists seem to obey these rules.
Really this is about vile little pale Scottish men shouting at you to get off the roads. Whenyou do so, because some of them are literate, they also shout at you for havin got off the road onto a cycle path. The ridiculous traffic calming plus other rules above are a stick to beat cyclist with an, if my experience is anything to go by, actually make it more dangerous than some more balanced position expounded just about everywhere else.

Sheesh, we're all getting quite heated about a canal towpath. Yes, 6mph as a speed limit is ridiculous, but as something more constructive, find out which body makes the rules (apologies if you've mentioned this already and I've missed it), turn up to the meetings (better still, turn up with several like minded cyclists) and cause a fuss. Speak to your local councillor too - even better if local elections are coming up - and give them a clear and reasonable argument why they shold pitch in and tell the busybodies where to go.

EDIT: It doesn't say anything about a speed limit here http://www.scottishcanals.co.uk/our-canals/union-canal/cycling, just general common sense stuff + a rather over-zealous attitude to dismounting.

Failing this, I think I'd be tempted to carry on cycling sensibly as you were - it's not as though someone is going to go down there with a radar gun.

First.Aspect

There are speed limit signs up on the canal.
But yes - I'll be getting in touch with Spokes. Sadly they tend to be beardy Birkenstock wearers who cycle at the speed of treacle with campaign stickers on every available surface of their bike or bag. Or is that the CTC I'm thinking of.

rjsterry

There's always the argument that you didn't know how fast you were going , if you were ever to be challenged on it.

Badrod

@firstaspect, I doubt you will be pinged with the speedgun on the canal!.

Anyway, Edinburgh District Council can't afford the enforcement costs, they are still working out how to pay for that other future of public transport...yes the T word!

First.Aspect

rjsterry wrote:

There's always the argument that you didn't know how fast you were going , if you were ever to be challenged on it.

Which is of course bollocks. I'm an ex 5k mile a year roadie.
I also tend to be challenged when saying excuse me after ringing the bell several times, following someone at ambling pace. Or when stationary waiting for a dog to have a crap, on another occasion.

First.Aspect

Badrod wrote:

@firstaspect, I doubt you will be pinged with the speedgun on the canal!.

Anyway, Edinburgh District Council can't afford the enforcement costs, they are still working out how to pay for that other future of public transport...yes the T word!

It would be scot canal's responsibility. And it's neds leaping out to make an invective filled point that bothers me.

Stone Glider

Bicycles are not required to have a speedometer fitted, so you cannot know at what speed you are moving, an unenforceable rule. Speed bumps/traffic calming is a normal element on the barely maintained tow paths I use.

You enquired as to my experience and I replied. It seems that you would prefer a chorus of sympathy instead.

First.Aspect

Stone Glider wrote:

Bicycles are not required to have a speedometer fitted, so you cannot know at what speed you are moving, an unenforceable rule. Speed bumps/traffic calming is a normal element on the barely maintained tow paths I use.

You enquired as to my experience and I replied. It seems that you would prefer a chorus of sympathy instead.

Um - not sure I replied to you but thanks. Your reply confirmed that here is out of step. My
Irritation is at being told not to do something I don't do by people who don't not do what I don't do either.

peat

got to have something to have impotent rage over i guess........

Have a lovely weekend.

Badrod

"And it's neds leaping out to make an invective filled point that bothers me"


Further justification for travelling faster than 6mph!, these chaps seem to be in agreement!

from a Glasgow canal regular

First.Aspect

That photo just about captures it, only with more venous blood pulsation and less humour.

The impotent rage accusation would probably not be levelled if I'd been threatened by a sober white van man I suppose. But as I was threatened by a drunk aggressive man whilst at walking pace I guess I'm just a whiney bitch. Thank you for your support and may saddle sores be bestowed upon you.

PBo

Is there a bigger c*ck than someone who posts on t'interweb then gets snarky and insulting when the world doesn't agree?

That's actually a rhetorical question, not a poll.

cje

6mph seems a bit ridiculous. As long as you aren't flying along, and you are courteous around pedestrians, you should be okay.

First.Aspect

Look, what I can't understand is that somehow I'm being rounded on for asking what the speed limit and cycle arrangements are elsewhere in the UK. One person answered the question, about 10 people presumed that I was some speed merchant and told me to slow down. I don't suppose that one should expect better of an anonymous internet forum, less still a sensible conversation.

The rules in England and Wales appear to be in line with what I remember and what I expect.

The rules in Scotland are 6mph in Edinburgh and 4mph in Glasgow. Is it so unreasonable to regard this as self-defeating? Are Scottish towpaths are more dangerous? Why is it so much different to England and Wales? Do you think that any abuse a cyclist gets is acceptable and that I should put up with it?

I've been a cyclist for 30 years and I really think I have a good idea of what is reasonable. At the times I use it, about 40% of the users are on bicycles. I thin that all of them are breaking the rules, suggesting that the rules themselves might need looking at.

A side effect of these safety rules, taken literally, is that it is not possible for coaches to supervise children learning to kayak or row (at the 4 clubs along the canal) without breaking the rules, because this would require moving at up to 10kph. Indeed the boats are limited to 3kts, which is about 1/3 of the speed of a gentle paddle in a single scull, so this is also illegal.

I'm not entirely sure what the canals are for, if you put all of this together. Hauling coal, perhaps. Although horses are also banned, so you can't actually use them for what they were originally intended for either.

So can you see that when you really think about it, in the name of health and safety, you pretty much stifle all recreation other than taking a stroll, on the canal.