Please don't laugh at me... I am so lame...

Manc33

I bought a Triban 3 recently and it seems like a bargain.

Did a 22 mile trip today on it up Snake Pass (the "easy" side, coming from Manchester lol) and found that in the lowest gear (30F/25R aka wheel turns 1.2 times per one full pedal turn) I had to keep stopping all the time! When I got my energy back and set off up the hill once again, I lowered my cadence right down to about 30RPM (yeah, that slow!) and still, I had to keep stopping every 50M or so.

That doesn't sound like fun, stopping all the time. Its my own fault, I smoked for 20 years and only quit about 14 weeks ago. So, there's the reason for me being so physically useless, but I am not a complete n00b to cycling, I have been riding my MTB (with 26x1.5 slicks and locked rear suspension etc) for 2 years+, mostly on the road. I just wanted what we all want - to go further on the same energy - so I got a road bike.

Can't believe this thing has 700x23 @ 115psi and I am still finding it impossible to get up hills like Snake Pass.

Now, because I own a MTB here's the question... the part where you'll laugh at how weak I am...

Is it possible to put the 11-32T cassette and rear mech off my MTB onto my road bike?

That way I can muster 0.94 turns of the back wheel (as opposed to 1.2 turns) to one turn of the pedals... even that might not be low enough!

Both are 8 speed. Everything is Shimano, except the cassette on the MTB. It is all the same spacing, (because I did also once put a road cassette on the MTB and it worked fine) but I know the short cage rear mech on the road bike will not cope with a 32T sprocket, hence the need for a MTB type rear mech, but no need to swap the rear mech on an MTB, with a long cage it works with both cassettes.

Also, I reckon my chain might not be (absolutely definitely won't be?) long enough when its set up for a 25T sprocket not a 32T. If a tooth is a link it means 7 more links will be needed, in theory?

Also, will the front mech be able to cope with the chain being made to go higher because its on a 32T not a 25T sprocket? Thats the least of my worries though, since the front mech is situated where the chain is touching the chainring I can't see the rise at the back mattering.

So there's 3 potential problems I can think of:

1. Long cage rear mech will be needed for an 11-32T (on a bike that currently has a 12-25T)
2. Chain will need probably 4 or 6 extra links adding, hmmmmm.
3. Front mech - can it cope with such a bigger cassette? Can't see why not.

Sorry about the long post, I am crap at keeping things simple.

rolf_f

Manc33 wrote:

Sorry about the long post, I am crap at keeping things simple.

Yep - you are! Keep things simple this way - get a 12-28 cassette and get some more practice on easier, shorter hills. We all start out at a point where hills kill us but there comes a point when you either decide you love them or at least tolerate them. And you can get that far without mucking around with MTB gearing.

Manc33

Yeah but I would have a 11T at the back too with the MTB cassette and so, a bigger range of gears - low and high.

My dad said the exact same thing. "A guy I knew used to go all over the Pennines on a fixed cog" he said.

Yep, just one problem with that - I am not him.

Wiggo could say to just about any cyclist "I can average 25MPH over 2000 miles, why can't you" etc.

After swapping the cassette over I would just leave it like that since I have higher high gears and lower low gears (I arguably wouldn't need) but to me there's no such thing as having a too low gear... if you are that fatigued and don't wanna walk, a gear under 1:1 is a good thing. I reckon 0.93 turns on a 23lb road bike would bring it close to the ease of the MTB at 0.69 turns and 32lb.

This same thing happened when I used my dads old (1960's) Pennine tourer... thats about 21lb with 700x28 tyres. Same thing happened, had to keep stopping.

The point is today I didn't even bother trying to get to the top and thats the only reason I went.

I do have a road cassette but its 12-23 so, no point. Wow the gear changes are nice on that though!

If you're on a road bike and accelerate hard, on a 12-23 or 25 or even 28 you're having to change down 3 or 4 or even 5 sprockets... seems daft. With a MTB cassette it would be 1 or 2 sprockets. I know its all to get the perfect cadence on road bikes, but I would rather have a big range.

I change my mind like the wind, I only got that road cassette (for my MTB) because I hated the big jumps in gears, now I want it back again.

I did Snake Pass on that MTB with a 22F/23R (0.96) and I was absolutely exhausted, all the time I was struggling up the hill I thought 'that bloody 32T cassette is going straight back on this bike'. :roll: Mind that was the other side which is a 9 mile long incline. Needless to say I didn't get home until about 1AM that day. I did that 2 years ago as well when I was smoking my head off.

Manc33

I only wanna know if this is doable.

If I can't get any answer I will just try it anyway. :P

nickel

I don't know the area but Snake Pass is pretty serious climb isn't it? Perhaps spend some time on general riding and riding smaller climbs rather than change your cassette?

southdownswolf

I believe Wiggo also used a Shimano XT 36t on the back with Yumeya carbon fiber derailleur attached to the Di2 mech when on mountain stages. So you wouldn't be alone in running MTB gears on a road bike. He was riding up the odd Col or two though

rhext

I'd have thought it should be OK - might be worth doing some research on the internet on the pull ratios for the shifters:but having said that it's not uncommon to see Tricross CX or touring bikes with MTB Deore rear mechs. But you might just get away with swapping the cassette and trying a longer chain. The worst that can happen is that if you're in the 'small front, smaller rear' cog combinations, the mech won't be able to take up the full chain slack. If you steer clear of those combinations you'd probably be OK.

Alternatively, persevere. It's surprising how quickly you'll improve if you practice regularly.

snoopsmydogg

Why not get an 11-30 alivio cassette? Should be ok with the current rear mech and be better on the hills for you

TommyEss

CTC forum is good for this kind of thing, as lots of touring bike set ups mix and match road and MTB parts - they should be able to cover off any weirdness between cable pull ratios, spacings, that kind of thing.

Flatly though, just putting on a 12-28 cassette will get you back on the road much quicker than any of this - it's a bit of a faff!

MichaelW

Rear mechs have a max size sprocket (Shimano 2300 is 26 teeth) . There are 2 styles of mech, long cage and short cage. The cage length determines the range (ie taking up the slack chain). If you want much bigger you need an MTB rear mech, they are compatible with road shifters.
I use Deore rear mech with Tiagra shifters and a 30t .

Manc33

I think even a 1:1 ratio of 30F/30R would still not be a low enough gear, I was pedalling SO slow up Snake Pass today but I saw on the comp I was consistently doing 5MPH. That to me is way too high of a gear! Like 30RPM and 5MPH, no wonder I couldn't get up the hill.

You are joking about Wiggo using a 32T? He has cycled all his life as a road racer and, they just don't use 32T. Most use a way higher lowest gear then 30T/25T with those 39T doubles.

I am using a chain thats on a 50F/25R with a cassette that adds 7 teeth (25 increasing to 32) so doesn't this mean I must add 7 links to the chain? Sheez its a new bike lol. I would have to swap the chain from my MTB? Its all the same 8 speed drivetrain.

I can't wait to get this set up!

Lowest gear will be - 30F/32R (0.9375)
Highest gear will be - 50F/11R (4.5454)

Current gear range is crap in comparison lol...

Lowest gear is - 30F/25R (1.2)
Highest gear is - 50F/12R (4.1667)

Like I said before, I can accelerate on a road bike and then need to click down 3 or 4 or even 5 sprockets on the cassette, because of close ratio gearing! I mean riding on the 21T say, then I blast forward (easy to do on the 21T) then I suddenly need the 14T and its 4 sprockets away? On a MTB cassette it would be 2 sprockets away with say only the 17T in the middle.

I dunno, something like...

Road cassette: 21<18<16<14
MTB cassette: 21<17<14

My cadence will be off but I don't care, I want to cycle without having to stop, thats all there is to it.

jgsi

being upfront , you have 1 heavyweight clunker of a bike... however that said, I had something similar when I reintroduced myself back into biking a number of years back... and yes it sucked.
Find some flatter routes into Cheshire if you can and start to build some base fitness - work on the cadence.
Dont start piddling about with a bike that is already a triple, it will get you no return on investment.

If you carry on flogging yourself up passes like the Snake, you will end up chucking the bike.

Be a little.. no, a lot more patient.

do the basics right from the start.

CYCLESPORT1

Years ago I lived in Glossop at the bottom of the Snake and the first race I rode was a "Club Hill Climb" up the snake, in them days we would have been on 42/23 or 25. It's not a hard hill at 3.2 miles, just keep trying.

jgsi

CYCLESPORT1 wrote:

Years ago I lived in Glossop at the bottom of the Snake and the first race I rode was a "Club Hill Climb" up the snake, in them days we would have been on 42/23 or 25. It's not a hard hill at 3.2 miles, just keep trying.

If the Op could roll back to the 'good 'ol days' he probably would... we all would
But no, this is now, he's got 20 years of crap on his CV system that will take 2 years to clear if he is good and sticks at his resolve.
Repeated floggin yourself up a busy A road is not appropriate for the OPs current level of ability - hence he is trying to clutch straws at getting even 'easier' gear ratios'.

southdownswolf

Manc33 wrote:

You are joking about Wiggo using a 32T? He has cycled all his life as a road racer and, they just don't use 32T. Most use a way higher lowest gear then 30T/25T with those 39T doubles.

Not joking, he needed help up the mountains...
http://bicycling.com/blogs/thisjustin/2 ... leur-hack/

TommyEss

Beat me to it southdownswolf.

There are similar pictures of riders on SRAM setups, even Contador I think.

In reality, this is because they want to keep spinning up the hills, but it does at least prove it can be done. And a lot of the peloton will think nothing of reverting to a compact 50-34 for hilly/mountainous stages, particularly the sprinters.

As for other people's comments about starting out and jumping straight in at the deep end, I tend to agree - Snake's Pass doesn't have the reputation for nothing. It's a hard climb - you really should look at other routes, ride around, build fitness and come back to it in maybe 3 months time.

With decent training, and leaving it alone for a while, you'll find the next time you come to it, you'll get much further, maybe not right to the top without a stop, but a massive leap in progress (because you've left it a while). Then you'll know your fitness is coming up.

Snake Pass could be your quarterly health check - train as normal, check yourself on the pass. Every quarter you'll see improvement.


When I started out I was 5'8" and 15st - there were hills round here I just could not get up - so I rode around them and kept riding. Then I went back to them, and I got them.

You do have to be a bit patient - you can't just expect to jump on a bike and turn into Wiggo overnight.

keef66

"When I started out I was 5'8" and 15st - there were hills round here I just could not get up - so I rode around them and kept riding"

So how tall are you now??

Manc33

The main thing to me is if I have road chainrings (30/39/50) and a MTB cassette (11-32T) even if I put the MTB rear mech on, am I still going to get the chain touching itself on the jockey wheels (I mean the rear mech fully loose and folded up) because thats how long the chain needs to be to accommodate 50F/32R?

If that is the case then I am not going to bother swapping anything around.

cyclinggooner

Here's my pennies worth...
I run an 8 speed shimano setup 52/40 chainrings with 11-32 rear cassette using a MTB long cage rear derailleur. I have no problems with this setup. the rear derailleur just needs to be set up correctly and bear in mind that you shouldn't be using large chainring with large sprocket.

link below has useful info and images

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... gth-sizing

Manc33

cyclinggooner wrote:

Here's my pennies worth...
I run an 8 speed shimano setup 52/40 chainrings with 11-32 rear cassette using a MTB long cage rear derailleur. I have no problems with this setup. the rear derailleur just needs to be set up correctly and bear in mind that you shouldn't be using large chainring with large sprocket.

link below has useful info and images

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... gth-sizing

Cheers. Its hard enough putting a new chain on a bike without all this road/MTB mixing.

I thought maybe to get the small>small so the chain doesn't rub on the jockey wheels, it might need to be sort of 2 links too short to even go on the 2 biggest, but I don't want to risk that or run it like that.

It seems the best option probably would be what was said before, just get an 11-28T and it will (probably) work with my 2300 rear mech (road) that says its capable of up to 26T.

Come to think of it thats what the old Pennine tourer I used to use (a little) had, a 28R. Had similar sized front triple, something like 30/42/52. I dunno, that has a Stronglight crankset and its amazingly light, then again its an aluminum chainring, which I hate with a passion. Last alu chainring I used it ended up slipping after about a year or two, with the teeth looking more like sharks fins. Alu cassettes are even worse for it. Some places on the bike its not feasible to use another material and yet they still try to anyway.

This is off topic but how come those Shimano Biopace chainrings in the 1990's never took off and now in the Tour de France I hear elliptical chainrings (or elliptical smaller chainring usually) are "just making their way into the pro's kit in the Tour de France" WHAT?! How come it works now but now when Shimano did it? Already been done 20 years ago! Are we going round in circles? Same with the electronic shifting... is the energy saved in the hands really a good tradeoff adding the weight of the Di2 system? I am only assuming it is heavier than normal mechanical Dura Ace or whatever, if it is lighter then fair enough, Shimano pulled a blinder, but it can't be lighter!

southdownswolf

It's not to do with the weight , Di2 system has auto-trimming built in and can change gear more easily when subjected to more force due to climbing etc.

Manc33

southdownswolf wrote:

It's not to do with the weight , Di2 system has auto-trimming built in and can change gear more easily when subjected to more force due to climbing etc.

Yeah but when the mechanics are buying 5 of everything just to find a cassette thats 1g lighter (which is why the riders full kit can cost such a crazy amount like well over £10,000), weight is everything to these guys! Can't grasp it myself. Even if it auto trims, even if its feather light to change etc.

I think it was Lance Armstrong that said, when he was asked about shaving his legs and surely thats not needed, he said if I save 1% on my aerodynamics, do this, do that, it all adds up and that extra 5% or 10% will win the race.

I am still shocked at Wiggo/Contador using MTB cassettes in the ACTUAL Tour de France. :shock: Then again it figures, if you look at Lance's legs they are truly all round legs for biking, whereas Wiggo has thinner legs, but is just as capable (as long as he has the 32T hehe). Lance as we all know is just up there above even the elites, he still has the fastest average speed for a Tour - at nearly 26MPH. I thought Wiggo's 25MPH was insane but god knows what Lance did in 2005 to accomplish that. The guy is just a monster cyclist. Too fast.

snoopsmydogg

Manc33 wrote:

I am still shocked at Wiggo/Contador using MTB cassettes in the ACTUAL Tour de France. :shock: Then again it figures, if you look at Lance's legs they are truly all round legs for biking, whereas Wiggo has thinner legs, but is just as capable (as long as he has the 32T hehe). Lance as we all know is just up there above even the elites, he still has the fastest average speed for a Tour - at nearly 26MPH. I thought Wiggo's 25MPH was insane but god knows what Lance did in 2005 to accomplish that. The guy is just a monster cyclist. Too fast.

you might want to have a look at the pro race section

elcani

11-32 cassette with an MTB mech and a longer chain WILL work, no problem. Whether you should be doing that or getting fitter by riding different routes is a different matter!

Cheers.

Speckled Pants

Ive just given up mountain biking, lost all motivation for it and i can count on my hand the number of times ive been out this year.

Sold both bikes and picked up a road bike 2 weeks ago and like you im finding it tougher going than i thought. Ive got a compact and my rear cassette was 12-25t which was pretty hard work on the hills, ive just changed that for a 12-27t and its made all the difference. Im only 2 weeks in, so not exactly in the peak of my fitness yet but im building up slowly, done a few 15 mile rides and plan a 20 next and so on...

Like some of the other guys have said, maybe you're trying too hard too soon, keep it simple and the fitness will come

Mike03776

Snakes pass is one long drag of a hill, you might want to start on something easier to build your fitness up first.

Ben6899

Manc33 wrote:

... but god knows what Lance did in 2005 to accomplish that. The guy is just a monster cyclist. Too fast.

Some people reckon he was juiced up to his eyeballs on EPO or even more advanced doping products that tests might not have picked up. I personally couldn't possibly comment.

Manc33

Swapped the 11-32T cassette onto the road bike today, along with long cage Alivio MTB rear mech - its shifting better than the 2300 short cage I took off thats done under 50 miles. The MTB cassette is a better one than the oddly named "Sun Rise" cassette that was on it.

The only problem is it refuses to go on the 11T sprocket when I am on the biggest chainring. Middle and small chainring - no problem, but I can't seem to get that highest gear for some reason.

In the end the chain had to be 4 links (aka half links) longer.

So its ended up with better kit on it (albeit used it still shifts better than the new kit did) and a bigger range of gears. Every gear combo works except 50F/11R. Its a mystery. Or maybe its just what happens when you do this.

Went up a gradient of about 22%+ tonight albeit a very short hill and voila, nice! Now I know for a fact I can get up the 3.2 mile and 9 mile sides of Snake Pass because I did it on my MTB with a 22F/23R when I had a close ratio cassette on. Yep, it was hellish coming up to the top of the 9 mile side on the way home, but even on a 32lb MTB that gear was low enough... just. Although I knew there was no lower gear I was pushing the lever like a retarded monkey, in a 99% fatigued state, 1% away from collapsing. That was 2 years ago and I am on a 23lb road bike with 700cx23 and a gear slightly lower with a 30F/32R. Should be "easy". I am more interested in going all the way to hardly being able to pedal, I can only do that (and keep pedalling) with super low gears.

My average the other day was shambolic, 11.9MPH for 22 miles. I hope with the lower gearing I can get at least 12.5 next time and thats including the 2.8 miles of Snake Pass I gave up trying to overcome the other day.

All I need now is for it to stop raining for long enough to enjoy it.

This was a road bike but now its got...

1. "Normal" double sided pedals, kids pedals lol.
2. Rear mech, cassette and chain from my MTB to give super low gears.
3. Saddle from the MTB. Its about 7mm wider, but that made a huge difference.
4. Swapped MTB stem onto it to shorten the reach by 2cm. Did have a 120mm on it.
The only other additions are the computer and lights.

Those 4 things have really improved the bike, for my situation/fitness level.

Manc33

I have to admit, its getting better. A little better all the time.

Went up Snake Pass today, despite the fact that it was far more windy than usual on the way back down (was doing about 18-20 MPH when its normally 25-30 MPH) I still beat my last time, just about!

Ride 1 = 2 Hrs 6 Mins (drop handlebars)
Ride 2 = 2 Hrs 6 Mins (MTB handlebars)
Ride 3 = 2 Hrs 5 Mins (MTB handlebars and really windy)

So whilst that seems like hardly any improvement, I know it is. If I did that ride today with drop handlebars and it wasn't windy, who knows... maybe I could post an incredible time like 2 Hrs 4 Mins. Nah I think I would have broken the 2 Hr mark.

Not bragging but the only other cyclists I ever see up Snake Pass are usually kitted out in team colours, or they are budding amateurs with all the Lycra on etc, probably timing themselves like I do.

I spent my whole life being really lazy though. I can understand it. Every time I look in a chippy I see some really overweight woman or guy ordering and think 'Jeez, they haven't even caught on yet?' but I dunno. Most people seem to have had it bred out of them somehow, but thats another forum/website.

bails87

You've put flat bars on your road bike...?


As for the gears, is the chain long enough to go around the big ring and the biggest cog on the cassette at the same time, or will it rip the mech off. You might have to shorten it to make it run smoothly on small/small but it's better to have a slightly noisy gear combo (that you shouldn't be using) than to have a gear combo that will potentially ruin your bike. Admittedly you shouldn't be using big/big either, but if it happens by accident it's better to have a grumbly chain than a catastrophic mechanical!

You've very much jumped in at the deep end with that climb, I'd ride somewhere else for a bit while you get used to the road bike.

ChrisFilter

You've put MTB bars on your road bike, and you want to add MTB gears?