froome and wiggins

speshsteve

Anyone else getting hacked off with the press trying to build bad feeling between bradley and Chris? There is no question that Mr Froome is an exceptional climber and I think in last years tour route you would back him as team leader.

This year has a huge amount of TT and I think Bradley will shut them all up taking more time out of everyone on such a long TT creating a significant gap....ie he is the perfect choice for this years course. Next year could be Froome favouring i.e. very hilly but we'll see I guess.

mattshrops

He shoots, he scores...

luckao

Yes. It's very boring. More so than the race hurr hurr.

It isn't quite as bad this week. It's just the male equivalent of reading some crap women's gossip magazine. They need a bit of drama.

Daz555

WAGS and papers making something out of nothing. Froome will get his chance and this year's Tour has proved he is worthy of being a leader if he stays fit. For 2013 however if Brad wants the ride I'm fairly sure he'll get it.

Then again Brailsford is ruthless - the man who told Sir Chris he will not be defending one of his titles.

Le Commentateur

Daz555 wrote:

Then again Brailsford is ruthless - the man who told Sir Chris he will not be defending one of his titles.

That sort of thing is part of the job. Pandering to a sense of entitlement is how good teams go bad.

Anonymous

+1. I thought Hoy was guaranteed Gold, but he was KO'd by his compatriot at the worlds in the semis.

RichN95.

coriordan wrote:

+1. I thought Hoy was guaranteed Gold, but he was KO'd by his compatriot at the worlds in the semis.

Gregory Bauge is the hot favourite (thanks to some dubious moves from the anti-doping crusaders at French Cycling)

napoleond

I think Wiggo has peaked too soon, there's still 3 stages to go.

morstar

OT but I think the track sprint decision is probably right. Chris is definitely #1 for kierin but hasn't proven that in the sprint. The stupid one rider per nation rule has detracted from the sporting spectacle.

Daz555

morstar wrote:

OT but I think the track sprint decision is probably right. Chris is definitely #1 for kierin but hasn't proven that in the sprint. The stupid one rider per nation rule has detracted from the sporting spectacle.

Yep spot on. One rider per nation diminishes the comp hugely. I feel there might be an anti-British element to that decision after Beijing if I'm honest.

As for Hoy v Kenny. Kenny does have the measure of Hoy on occasion but I'm not convinced that Kenny can ever beat Bauge - Hoy on the other hand can because power always has the chance and Hoy is still unmatched in that regard.

It seems however that they are playing the percentages and do not want to risk a much older Hoy getting tired with so many races. Men continue to grow in power well into their 30's but endurance does drop off typically.

Still, Kenny has more than earned his place.

greasedscotsman

Could have some problems next year. Who do they ride for, Froome, Wiggins or Cavendish?

gattocattivo

They won't ride for Cavendish if they're in with a shout of the yellow jersey - the most he can hope for is two helpers instead of one. That's not necessarily a problem: he's more than capable of winning a sprint without a train. However, he could probably do with a bit more protection and a bit more pulling back of breaks.

I think they should sit down in the autumn once all three GT routes have been announced and work out what to do then. You never know, it could be a case of Wiggins going for the Giro and Froome for the Tour.

MrTapir

Le Commentateur wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

Then again Brailsford is ruthless - the man who told Sir Chris he will not be defending one of his titles.

That sort of thing is part of the job. Pandering to a sense of entitlement is how good teams go bad.

See 'England Football Team' for example.

On the Froome/Wiggins question, i got the sense From Wiggo during his interview last night that he would be happy to support Froomey in a bid for Tour win.

meggiedude

I just think this is all about deals being struck at contact signature time, and how to cover as many bases as poss.
This benefits the individuals, but obviously Sky also.

There is no doubt Wiggo, Cav, Froome and co will have been offered a stack full of cash to join Sky but with certain provisos.
Recognising that there's a difference between Team GB and Sky, but the fact is Wiggo and co handed the Worlds to Cav - on a plate with all trimmings. This must have been on the understanding that he would not expect a rock solid lead out train for the tour. If he got the odd victory - great, esp in Paris, but otherwise its a DIY job.

Main aim was to get Wiggo the tour and Froome was brought in, again for a stack of cash to support his leader come what may, unless something bad happened, in which case he would be allowed to race for himself.
As they now have 1 and 2 they have that base sorted.
I'm sure Froome would have to buy into this, but if he's sharpe enough and knows his talent/form then he would have insisted on a similar crack at the Tour next year.
Wiggo just wanted to go down in history as the first man....lardy dardy dar.

We'll see how next year pans out. Similar deals will be struck I'm sure. There is no doubt the Sky Management are clever cookies.

Crozza

greasedscotsman wrote:

Could have some problems next year. Who do they ride for, Froome, Wiggins or Cavendish?

I thought that they were all going to ride for JTL?

shmo

Just hope the competition is stiffer next year so we don't have the same situation. If there was someone up the road taking time out of Sky then we might actually see a selection between Wiggins and Froome that would put the argument to bed. As much as anything the problem is being caused by the lacklustre challenge mounted by the other teams.

It's like the old Schumacher / Barrichello one-twos.

Secteur

NapoleonD wrote:

I think Wiggo has peaked too soon, there's still 3 stages to go.

petemadoc

greasedscotsman wrote:

Could have some problems next year. Who do they ride for, Froome, Wiggins or Cavendish?

If all three are still at Sky next year then I'll eat my hat

Tom Butcher

Exactly - the tactics worked because nobody could drop either of them - very similar tactics at the Vuelta last year lost them the race when they had a rider strong enough to have won it - of course we don't know if Froome would have carried on working for Brad or if he'd have been told to go on this time.

As for next year - money aside there isn't room in one team for two GC leaders and a top sprinter. Sky didn't deliver the worlds for Cav - he was riding for GB not Sky. In fact that worlds win shows there was no need for Cav to join Sky to be able to win the Olympics - he was already able to fit in with the other riders and they were already willing to work for him.

meggiedude

Shmo wrote:

Just hope the competition is stiffer next year so we don't have the same situation. If there was someone up the road taking time out of Sky then we might actually see a selection between Wiggins and Froome that would put the argument to bed. As much as anything the problem is being caused by the lacklustre challenge mounted by the other teams.

It's like the old Schumacher / Barrichello one-twos.

I agree. The attacks against Sky have been very lacklustre.
Nibali has tried his best to shake things up a bit, but we've had nothing much from Evans or anyone else of any note this year.
As a Brit myself, I def want a Brit to win this year. However, may be treason to say this, but from a neutrals POV the leadership race must have been relatively boring compared with prev years.
Just saying........

TMR

My own feeling is that SKY is now clearly a GC team. There is no place for Cav at SKY if that is indeed the case. I know people will argue that he can use other trains, and while true to a small degree, it's dangerous and provides inconsistent results. Look at this year's TdF, there are at least 3 stages he either lost or didn't compete that he would have won if HTC still existed.

Cav deserves a full team dedicated to getting him across the line first. He needs to move.

iainf72

PeteMadoc wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Could have some problems next year. Who do they ride for, Froome, Wiggins or Cavendish?

If all three are still at Sky next year then I'll eat my hat

I hope you like eating hat

meggiedude

I still think Sky will attempt to carve up next year as they have carved up this year.

"Right boys, here's the deal, We'll support you for the Giro, you for the Tour, you for the Vuelta. Oh, by the way your pay cheques are in the envelopes over there. Any questions?"

TMR

meggiedude wrote:

I still think Sky will attempt to carve up next year as they have carved up this year.

"Right boys, here's the deal, We'll support you for the Giro, you for the Tour, you for the Vuelta. Oh, by the way your pay cheques are in the envelopes over there. Any questions?"

Fine in theory, but what happens when more than one of the top 3 want the same race?

Spiny_Norman

iainf72 wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Could have some problems next year. Who do they ride for, Froome, Wiggins or Cavendish?

If all three are still at Sky next year then I'll eat my hat

I hope you like eating hat

Indeed. All contracted for at least another year, but there will definitely be balance issues. It might be Froome or Wiggins for GTs, rather than both/and, and now that they've got the monkey off their back (assuming no terrible virus that wrecks both Wiggo and Froome just before the TT), they might feel more comfortable with switching their support a bit more towards Cav and slightly away from the GT guy (whoever that is).

meggiedude

The Mad Rapper wrote:

meggiedude wrote:

I still think Sky will attempt to carve up next year as they have carved up this year.

"Right boys, here's the deal, We'll support you for the Giro, you for the Tour, you for the Vuelta. Oh, by the way your pay cheques are in the envelopes over there. Any questions?"

Fine in theory, but what happens when more than one of the top 3 want the same race?

I'm sure the Sky Pay, Bonus's, Pension plan & Bupa will accommodate any concerns.
Not saying it'll last for ever, but think you'll see something similar next year.

At the end of the day - money talks. Why do you think they were persuaded to join Sky in the first place - esp Cav.

phreak

Tom Butcher wrote:

Exactly - the tactics worked because nobody could drop either of them - very similar tactics at the Vuelta last year lost them the race when they had a rider strong enough to have won it - of course we don't know if Froome would have carried on working for Brad or if he'd have been told to go on this time.

As for next year - money aside there isn't room in one team for two GC leaders and a top sprinter. Sky didn't deliver the worlds for Cav - he was riding for GB not Sky. In fact that worlds win shows there was no need for Cav to join Sky to be able to win the Olympics - he was already able to fit in with the other riders and they were already willing to work for him.

Liquigas have Basso, Nibali and Sagan

Daz555

The Mad Rapper wrote:

Fine in theory, but what happens when more than one of the top 3 want the same race?

They either do what they are told or are shown the door.

meggiedude

phreak wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Exactly - the tactics worked because nobody could drop either of them - very similar tactics at the Vuelta last year lost them the race when they had a rider strong enough to have won it - of course we don't know if Froome would have carried on working for Brad or if he'd have been told to go on this time.

As for next year - money aside there isn't room in one team for two GC leaders and a top sprinter. Sky didn't deliver the worlds for Cav - he was riding for GB not Sky. In fact that worlds win shows there was no need for Cav to join Sky to be able to win the Olympics - he was already able to fit in with the other riders and they were already willing to work for him.

Liquigas have Basso, Nibali and Sagan

Liquigas have Nibali and Sagan.
Basso is somewhat of a spent force by now. Super-domestique/stage-winner at best.

greasedscotsman

phreak wrote:

Liquigas have Basso, Nibali and Sagan

Isn't Nibali leaving Liquigas? Wonder why that might be?

petemadoc

Spiny_Norman wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Could have some problems next year. Who do they ride for, Froome, Wiggins or Cavendish?

If all three are still at Sky next year then I'll eat my hat

I hope you like eating hat

Indeed. All contracted for at least another year, but there will definitely be balance issues. It might be Froome or Wiggins for GTs, rather than both/and, and now that they've got the monkey off their back (assuming no terrible virus that wrecks both Wiggo and Froome just before the TT), they might feel more comfortable with switching their support a bit more towards Cav and slightly away from the GT guy (whoever that is).

I think it's pretty sad if they do all stay at Sky

Cav has pretty much been a domestique this tour and managed to nab a stage win, he might get a full train in Paris and get another stage. Cav is well on the way to beating the tour wins record and becoming the greatest sprinter in history but if he stays at Sky his chances are lessened. The only reason for Cav to stay is money or contract issues.

Froome seems pretty hungry for a tour win to me, again he has a contract to wriggle out of but I think he wants it too much. No idea what team he will go for but it will be interesting to see this pan out. Next years tour will be immense!! All the big players back and if we see Froome on another team then a real GC battle will be on.