Incident with Local Motorcycle club rider

Pumpkin Positive

Somerset Dibble wrote:

edhornby wrote:

photo all the injuries, all the breakages of kit etc, keep on at the police to make sure this

failure to stop at the scene of an accident should be taken seriously - if it isn't then written correspondence direct to the Chief Constable, if this doesn't work then local newspapers

you may or may not wish to claim for compensation - the pictures will be of use for this

We took photo's of pretty much everything, me before and after treatment at the hospital, ruined lycra and videos of the knackered wheel spinning etc.

I'm not sure how exactly the police would categorize this, reckless endangerment, driving with intent to injure....i'm not sure as have never had to deal with an incident like this before. One thing is for certain I consider it serious enough for action to be taken, especially as the guy had now been located and spoken to by the police!

The crazy thing as well is he had a passenger on board that appeared to be female, so it wasn't only his life he was endangering it was his passengers although they may well have the same mindset as this tool!

The other thing is the club have a website and there is a picture of this guy on there (i got a pretty good look at him when he walked out into the road he is in his late 50s early 60s i would say) which i have forwarded to the Police also to help our case!

I will keep pestering the police while waiting to hear from their collisions unit and then consider my next steps after that! The newspaper route has also been mentioned as well as the fact the the club he was riding with belongs to a number of federations so they will be made aware of his actions.

The police office said she spoke to the club secretary first and although he wasn't on this particular ride she said he seemed a genuine guy and was upset that one of his club members would ride in such a manner. But at the same time she said that in the guys statement he says he has witnesses to confirm he didn't ride in a dangerous manner which would suggest some of the club are closing ranks and lying though their back teeth!

I think i am going to have to be patient with this one!

Thanks for all the responses so far.

How about a link that picture on the club site? If there is a piccy of him on a publicly accessible website I don't see any problem in getting his mugshot up on this forum - other more knowledgeable than I may disagree I regularly ride on Dartmoor and it's likely that this knob will now have a taste for this sort of behaviour. If he continues to assault cyclists it will be hard for the police to ignore.

petemadoc

Somerset Dibble wrote:

The fact is true as raised above that it is our word against his but I can guarantee there were witnesses in the other motorcycle club riders that were following this guy when he pulled of the dangerous manoeuvre described! But as I have said it appears they have closed ranks and not coming forward with information which is frustrating!

A good family friend who is a coroner has advised me to take this case to the small claims court and this is something I am looking into as well as the no win no fee types! Going to give the Police the benefit of the doubt at the moment and hope they come through with something as well.

It does bring home how completely vulnerable you are as a cyclist on the roads nowadays no matter how competent a bike handler you are you just can't predict the actions of other road users especially when they are as reckless as the motorbike rider was with us!

I've been attacked twice in similar circumstances. First time I came away with a nasty bruise, second time I slipped down a small alleyway so they couldn't follow me.

The lesson to be learnt is that there are some serious w*ankers out there. Do not ever provoke them no matter how tempting it might be and how much shouting and swearing they do. They have a big metal box with an engine to use as a weapon, you are near enough naked.

When some git beeps or shouts abuse.... water off a ducks back is the best attitude to have

stay safe

Somerset Dibble

Quick update as to where things are at the moment,

The Serious Collisions unit were given 4 weeks to undertake further investigations of this case. It took 2 weeks to get the name of the Officer in charge who would be dealing with this, and then another week to get hold of him as he was on annual leave.

Finally after many missed calls and answerphone messages left for this Officer he finally got back to me. Basically the case is dead in the water, he asked if i could provide any car drivers details who would of witnessed the crash but there were no cars on the road at that time to see it so i could provide no details. The officer informed me that he had spoken to the motorcyclist accused and also the rider next in line (200 yards or so behind) and this 2nd rider has said that the rider concerned did not ride in an aggressive manner towards us and that we probably suffered a blow out which caused us all to crash! :evil:

As there are no further witnesses its our word against there's and there is nothing more the Police can do, to be fair the officer couldn't get off the phone quick enough when talking to me. I confirmed to him that we did not suffer a blow out at all, we have been riding together for years and i trust the guy who's wheel i was on implicitly and he wouldn't of changed direction so drastically unless there was just cause, i.e this motorcyclist heading right for him!

More to the point even if we did have a blow out that caused us to crash why would we then start blaming a motorcycle club for no reason!

I'm more frustrated now then i was shortly after the incident and not really sure of what route to take next.

I am thinking of taking it to the small claims court as well as writing some letters the the various motorcycle federations that the 'Exeter British Motorcycle Club' belong to and ask if they are happy to condone this type of behaviour towards other 2 wheeled road users!

Any other advice on what possible steps i can take seeing as the police route has proved unfruitful would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Bobbinogs

Veronese68 wrote:

...He's probably a bank manager or something during the week that thinks he grows a pair when he's out with his mates...

Around these parts there are some bad ass biker gangs who are the real deal and I have learned to steer well clear of them whether on the road or not. I hate to say it but if one of their chapter had started giving me abuse I would have just taken it and rerouted to avoid a further confrontation where possible. Man or a mouse? "Squeak, squeak".

upperoilcan

Having read your latest update i would certainly not bother going down the small claims court route purely down to two facts

1.....The police have thrown it out.

2.....You have said it yourself that it's "your word against theirs".

It's a no win situation by the looks of it mate. ( A crap one i know).

dodgy

upperoilcan wrote:

Having read your latest update i would certainly not bother going down the small claims court route purely down to two facts

1.....The police have thrown it out.

2.....You have said it yourself that it's "your word against theirs".

It's a no win situation by the looks of it mate. ( A crap one i know).

I would disagree with that. I doubt if you're a solicitor, I certainly am not, but I'm sure the burden of proof in a civil court (i.e. a small claims court) is lower, and that eye witness testimony might be enough to secure a win.

Speak to a solicitor who works with cyclists cases is my advice, I can recommend one if you want to take it further, but they also advertise in the back of Cycling Weekly.

Good luck.

Ginjafro

"The aim of the Exeter British Motorcycle Club is to foster, encourage and maintain an interest in British Motorcycles; to provide technical assistance to its members, to meet one another and discuss motorcycling in a friendly atmosphere and finally to establish and maintain good relationships between motorcyclists and the general public."

Apparently this is Exeter British Motorcycle Club's mission statement. These guys are hardly the Plymouth Aquila, Angels or Outlaws - a bunch of poofters in comparison. Perhaps you should contact them and any affiliates to make your case?

dodgy

It looks like it's not just companies that pen bullshit mission statements...

StillGoing

dodgy wrote:

upperoilcan wrote:

Having read your latest update i would certainly not bother going down the small claims court route purely down to two facts

1.....The police have thrown it out.

2.....You have said it yourself that it's "your word against theirs".

It's a no win situation by the looks of it mate. ( A crap one i know).

I would disagree with that. I doubt if you're a solicitor, I certainly am not, but I'm sure the burden of proof in a civil court (i.e. a small claims court) is lower, and that eye witness testimony might be enough to secure a win.

Speak to a solicitor who works with cyclists cases is my advice, I can recommend one if you want to take it further, but they also advertise in the back of Cycling Weekly.

Good luck.

The balance of probabilities is a sliding scale; the more serious the offence, the higher the burden of proof. With no independent witnesses this is dead in the water. For each party on his side, the plaintiff has one on their side. Just because the OP has say three witnesses saying it happened his way doesn't mean the civil courts have to believe them rather than the three witnesses the plaintiff produces supporting his version.

OP have you thought about contacting MAG to tell them about this club? They might be keen on eeking out some pressure on them for bringing the name of motorcyclists into disrepute.

I also think you've had poor service from the oic. He had grounds and necessity to arrest the rider in order to interview him under caution. While he's sitting in a cell the oic could've been out getting his "witnesses" version of events on paper. Not many people are willing to perjure themselves when someone is under arrest and they have to commit to paper. Recontact the oic and ask to see him with his Sgt to discuss. If there is no satisfaction, ask for the insurance details of the owner, write to them notifying them of the incident and your intention to make a claim against them. Even if you don't, they'll probably load his premium come renewal.

upperoilcan

dodgy wrote:

I would disagree with that. I doubt if you're a solicitor, I certainly am not, but I'm sure the burden of proof in a civil court (i.e. a small claims court) is lower, and that eye witness testimony might be enough to secure a win.

Good luck.

Im no solicitor but judging from what the Op has posted it seems to me to be too much of a gamble as from what i read it's a 50/50 situation..

Regardless of what actually happened.

Best of luck though on whatever route the Op chooses.

matthewcrook

First off, im impartial. I ride a motorcycle and a push bike.
If your causing an obstruction by riding side by side then that's irresponsible on your part.
If a motorcyclist has done something that has caused an accident then there in the wrong, firstly for driving badly and secondly for not stopping after an accident.
Have you spoken to the president of the club. You know who they are and you can find out where they meet.
Motorcycle clubs tend to vary but on the whole if you Have the balls to (its all about respect internally) speak 'DIRECTLY' with the president. If the club is worth a shit the president will sort it. Forget lawyers, they will take your money and screw you. Take control yourself.
Everyone on 2 wheels suffer the same problems of people not giving us due consideration.
You will earn allot of respect and may even be able to educate a fool.

Ride safe

Matt

napoleond

I'd just put it down to experience.

Mikey23

An appalling act of violence. I have no doubt that the gentleman will get his come uppance if that's how he goes about his life. I must admit though that I do have a bit of a prob with riding two up, particularly as there were only three of you. I know the legality and all that but it does seem to really wind people up ...

nunowoolmez

Sounds like the MC was intent on causing you and/or the bike some damage. The intent was obviously there from him so from a police perspective the offences are racking up. For a start you have some serious driving offences (dangerous driving for a start). The intent was there & it was reasonable to think that if contact was made you would go over, or would go over to avoid a collision, therefore you could also say that this is ABH, or maybe even attempted GBH.

There is a possibility that police investigation may come to nothing, evidence wise. Don't get disheartened. Going down the civil will be your best option anyway. There are plenty of adverts for cycle friendly companies in back of cycle mags. This complete c*nt needs to be dealt with!!

mega9

The first post was on the 18th of july the OPs last visit was in august
can't see anything happening now chaps.

ben@31

What do us cyclists need to do to prosecute dangerous motorists that endanger us?

No doubt if the motorcyclist was doing 77mph on an empty dual carriageway. They would be very quick in handing him a big fine.

Somerset Dibble

Sorry for the delay in posting an update on proceedings with this, this has been a long, drawn out process, especially when dealing with the police.

In the end the police said there was not enough evidence to prosecute the motorcycle rider as there were no independent witnesses and it was his word against ours so the case was closed. I know for a fact the rider who was 50 yards behind the MC when it happened would of seen something but apparently the police spoke to the 2nd rider and he confirmed that the rider in question did not ride in a dangerous manner and that we all crashed on our own, probably due to a blow out on one of our bikes.....that did make me chuckle as if that did happen then we wouldn't of had an issue at all with the motorcycle club.

The police did provide me with the motorcycle riders name, address and insurance details and suggested pursuing the matter through the MC riders insurance. I did this and after an initial couple of emails where his insurance denied that he was he party involved etc I composed a very detailed email describing exactly what happened. With this i included photos of my injuries, damage to the bike, maps of the incident points both the verbal ones and the crash and said i could provide hospital records detailing my treatment. I finished the email by saying I wanted £1000 in personal injury or I would be taking the case to the small claims court.

This seemed to get through the net and I received an email saying that this case had been passed on to the claims team. The next day I received a phone call from a very happy chap at the MCs insurance confirming that they would be more than happy to pay me the £1000 and where would I like the cheque posting. This was done on a zero liability basis so they are still not accepting the MC ride was at fault and his insurance policy would not be changing. The next day I received the cheque and cashed it happily, this was at the end of November.

I could of maybe requested more but it more than covers the damage to the bike and will pay for my last college course as I am re-training to be an electrician.

So all in all not a bad outcome and it shows its worth pursuing these things till the bitter end. Thanks to all the words of support and advice from all who posted.

Cheers,
Dave

tiredofwhiners

Well done Dave - now is the time to name and shame the club in their local papers

nunowoolmez

Good news. Well done for not accepting 'no' for an answer! Shows these kind of incidents are indeed worth pursuing til the end. I raise my glass (at least my Frijj choc shake) to you Sir!!! Bravo

dodgy

And it's more than just £1000, you've just given him a present that is going to keep on giving for quite a few years, tells a nice little story for his potential future insurers.

Team4Luke

had similar, one motorbiker had no issue with us and passed fast and wide, but not his mate who slowed and smacked my mate in the back. We had it all on helmet cam and police wouldn't tell us much but were keen to get this guy (previous history), so we took him to court and won, judge was laughing at the motobikers defence explanation.

ilm_zero7

Great result