Incident with Local Motorcycle club rider

Somerset Dibble

Hi,

I'm posting this to see if anyone else has had a similar experience as myself and what advice if any the bike radar community could give.

Myself and two buddies were out for a ride on Sunday, we were heading from Exeter out towards Tavistock and then returning over Dartmoor. We were about 30 miles into the ride, riding along a wide straight road, my two mates were riding 2 a breast just in front of me having a quick chat when we began to be passed by a Local motorcycle club. All of the riders passed us without any issues due to the nature of the road and although 2 abreast we were very compact. However one of the riders on his approach starts beebing his horn and we could hear him shouting obscenities along the lines of 'f***ing w***ers! at us as he rode by (he had a pillion passenger and was the only one in this club riding pillion) we waved him on and didn't think much more of it, and moved back into our single file line.

We continued with our ride, about 2 miles further down the road this club had all stopped in a lay by.....as we near them the same gentlemen who shouted at us started to walk out into the road and starts again shouting obscenities at us calling us 'f***ing w***ers again......as we ride by we give him a bit of lip back but don't slow down and continue on our way. I glanced back and this guy was stood right in the middle of the road staring at us and didn't appear to move until we lost sight of him.

We get about 2-3 miles further down the road again we are riding 3 in a line, the stronger of the 3 of us was at the front pulling, i was sat on his wheel and the 3rd of our group was sat on my wheel. We can hear the bikes approaching, the first one passes and gives us room. My mate who was leading us has a quick glance over his shoulder as he can hear more bikes approaching and is obviously a bit wary as to what has happened to far, and he is met with the same guy as before heading directly for him....he has to take evasive action to avoid getting struck by the motorbike and swerves sharply left towards the hedge, i am sat 2nd wheel and have no where to go, i hit him and go down ( we were doing about 35mph at the time as had just crested a hill and were on the downside) and the guy in third wheel in turn ploughs over me.

The motorcycle rider who caused this does not stop! I am completely stunned at this point as i pick myslef up off the floor and inspect myself for road rash and damage to the bike.....my friends manage to flag down some of the following riders and explain the situation. We get the name of the motorcycle club and inform them what has just happened and they say they will be sure to tackle the guy at their next stop.

Damage report for myself, bad road rash on my right leg, hip, arm, and back. Lycra jersey and bibs written off. Sram red rear mech scratched up and possible bent rear hanger, and right hand side sram red brake lever badly scratched up. My friend who was following me has written off his Mavic cosmic carbon rear wheel. The lead rider was pretty much unscathed as he went into the hedge. We are all accomplished riders having all raced at some point and know how to ride.

One of the riders of the club who stopped informed us that they would be stopping at Oakhampton about 4 miles down the road. Now we are obviously seething at this point so pick ourselves up and try to get to Oakhampton to catch up and have word with this guy. We get to Oakhampton with myself bleeding and my friends rear wheel barely turning as is starting to fall apart but we cannot find the club anywhere. So at this point the pain is starting to kick in for me so we call in at Oakhampton hospital to get me cleaned up.

We were picked up from the Hospital by a friend and went straight to the police station and gave our accounts of the incident, the name of the motorcycle club and all the photos of the damage to myself and the bikes which we had taken. We leave with the police saying they will get in contact with the club to try and locate this rouge rider.

I get a phone call last night from the police confirming that they have located the rider concerned, she would not give me his name or tell me exactly what his statement was but she did say it was pretty much the complete opposite of ours and he says we started abusing him first and he did not ride recklessly.

Both sides of the incident have been passed on to the Police 'Collision Unit' and they will be in contact in the next couple of weeks.

Now i am still in quite a bit of pain now and obviously annoyed at the damage to my bike, i am not too confident that anything is going to come of the police investigation as this guy will just deny everything!! I know that we just don't go around falling off our bikes at 35mph for no reason and anyone with any common sense would see what has occurred!

Can anyone offer any advice as to where to go from here or has been in a similar situation weather it is with a motorcyclist or a car?

Thanks

edhornby

photo all the injuries, all the breakages of kit etc, keep on at the police to make sure this

failure to stop at the scene of an accident should be taken seriously - if it isn't then written correspondence direct to the Chief Constable, if this doesn't work then local newspapers

you may or may not wish to claim for compensation - the pictures will be of use for this

scrumpydave

That's unbelievable! This guy should be nowhere near the road. I'm assuming it's a guy anyway.

It sounds as if the other club members you spoke to were sensible. Is there any way you can contact the club to get some witnesses who can confirm that there was a deliberate collision? I'm guessing the perpertrator may also have bragged about this afterwards. I'm sure if they are reasonable people they will have no wish to defend him.

dylanfernley

Do not let this go--- this guy needs banning from roads, fined a huge amount as a minimum, me i'd lock him up, hope he loses his job, and thinks about his actions, we come across these types every day, usually they are in cars, but occassionally they are on two wheels(motorised)-- to him we are a nuisance, clogging up 'his' road, he felt safe in a big gang, well i hope you pursue this, a group of riders that i know were similarly attacked by a guy in a car---- he claimed he was scared of the cyclists, but ultimately he was seen for what he was, a motorised thug using his vehicle as a weapon, he went to prison !

Good luck

Somerset Dibble

edhornby wrote:

photo all the injuries, all the breakages of kit etc, keep on at the police to make sure this

failure to stop at the scene of an accident should be taken seriously - if it isn't then written correspondence direct to the Chief Constable, if this doesn't work then local newspapers

you may or may not wish to claim for compensation - the pictures will be of use for this

We took photo's of pretty much everything, me before and after treatment at the hospital, ruined lycra and videos of the knackered wheel spinning etc.

I'm not sure how exactly the police would categorize this, reckless endangerment, driving with intent to injure....i'm not sure as have never had to deal with an incident like this before. One thing is for certain I consider it serious enough for action to be taken, especially as the guy had now been located and spoken to by the police!

The crazy thing as well is he had a passenger on board that appeared to be female, so it wasn't only his life he was endangering it was his passengers although they may well have the same mindset as this tool!

The other thing is the club have a website and there is a picture of this guy on there (i got a pretty good look at him when he walked out into the road he is in his late 50s early 60s i would say) which i have forwarded to the Police also to help our case!

I will keep pestering the police while waiting to hear from their collisions unit and then consider my next steps after that! The newspaper route has also been mentioned as well as the fact the the club he was riding with belongs to a number of federations so they will be made aware of his actions.

The police office said she spoke to the club secretary first and although he wasn't on this particular ride she said he seemed a genuine guy and was upset that one of his club members would ride in such a manner. But at the same time she said that in the guys statement he says he has witnesses to confirm he didn't ride in a dangerous manner which would suggest some of the club are closing ranks and lying though their back teeth!

I think i am going to have to be patient with this one!

Thanks for all the responses so far.

Welsh_Wizard

First off, horrendous experience. Although I'd be so angry too I'd also be counting my lucky stars that it wasn't worse.

If the guy keeps denying that your version of events is true it is going to come down to only a few options. You will have you and your two mates all claiming one version and the other riders theirs. Yours will marry up as its true and theirs won't, as it is a lie and the more people you involve in a lie, the more chance of it unravelling. At this stage hopefully the police will pursue a prosecution against him/her.

Keep pressure on the police to pursue it. It comes down to 'dangerous driving' which carries an extremely hefty disposal if found guilty. Ultimately you have 3 injured riders and numerous damaged bikes so hopefully they will give it the seriousness it deserves.

If your feeling that the officer involved isnt giving you the time of day, relay your version of events to his/her Sgt and I'm sure he/she will take a different view, if your version of events is the truth.

One thing in your favour is this guy, whether he says you started it or not, is going to have to account why 3 riders are all injured. It's seems unlikely that your going to throw yourselves & expensive kit into the middle of the road without good cause. Supply the name of the person that you spoke too - possibly the 'tail end charlie' / TEC - of the ride out. All they need to do is confirm that you had the conversation on the side of the road and all of a sudden you have strong evidence in your favour.

Another thing to do is check local motorbike forums in your area to see if this person has made a similar post to you. It might be a shameless boost of his dikhead riding skills and again, might serve you well in the long run.

jordan_217

Have a look at this, might be worth PM'ing the OP to ask for some advice:

viewtopic.php?f=30005&t=12845286&hilit=motorcyclist#p17533172

Shocking incident, hope you get this sorted. Get well soon.

t.m.h.n.e.t

Sad to see an MCC closing ranks like that when bikers suffer the same things we do as cyclists. Take the fucker to the cleaners if you get the opportunity.

There are always exceptions but some clubs really do deserve their shitty reputation.

veronese68

I can't really add anything new to the above comments, but I agree that you should keep pursuing it in any way you can.
It really saddens me because you'd think he'd appreciate vulnerale road users. I bet he'd be fuming it a truck didn't leave him enough room.
He's probably a bank manager or something during the week that thinks he grows a pair when he's out with his mates. Try to get a name, find out where he works and then contact his employer. They probably can't do anything, but it might at least focus his mind.

Pross

edhornby wrote:

photo all the injuries, all the breakages of kit etc, keep on at the police to make sure this

failure to stop at the scene of an accident should be taken seriously - if it isn't then written correspondence direct to the Chief Constable, if this doesn't work then local newspapers

you may or may not wish to claim for compensation - the pictures will be of use for this

Obviously a bad incident but the motorbike was not directly involved in the accident so it's not really failing to stop. As it's only the motorcyclist in question that has apparently given a statement hopefully the police will ask other club members for their version. As they appear to have been pretty helpful before and after the event hopefully they would give an honest account (although they may genuinely not have known what happened). Unfortunately whatever the provocation it is best to avoid giving lip back to someone in a faster and larger vehicle than you (although difficult to bite your tongue I know!).

Cleat Eastwood

sadly one of my extended family was in a terrible accident last year - and i mean truly blood curdlingly bad - terrible - police refused to give any information about the guy. Family got a solicitor and he had instant access to the guys name, statement everything, get in touch with one and dont be fobbed off - even if you put in a personal injury claim against him.

Welsh_Wizard

Pross wrote:

Obviously a bad incident but the motorbike was not directly involved in the accident so it's not really failing to stop. As it's only the motorcyclist in question that has apparently given a statement hopefully the police will ask other club members for their version. As they appear to have been pretty helpful before and after the event hopefully they would give an honest account (although they may genuinely not have known what happened). Unfortunately whatever the provocation it is best to avoid giving lip back to someone in a faster and larger vehicle than you (although difficult to bite your tongue I know!).

This beginning bit is incorrect sorry - if the OP correctly describes the incident, the presence of the motorbike and the evasive action taken is clearly due to the motorbike riders riding-style. Suffice to say, had the motorbike not been there, the accident would not have happened - therefore, bike rider is duty bound under Section 170 of Road Traffic Act 88 to provide sufficient details to ascertain driver details..

StillGoing

It's an accident. It's on a road or other public place, damage has been caused to property not carried in or on that vehicle and injury has been caused to person who is not the driver of that vehicle. Blameworthy? Yes. The motorcycle riders in front maybe didn't see the first altercation and believed the verbal exchange by the layby was the start of everything. Irrespective of that, his actions caused the collision which is tantamount to an assault. Contact the Chief Constable to register a complaint as to how the investigation appears to be being filed in the "too difficult" pile. I'm an ex motorcycle rider spending many days on the track, but I'll freely admit my old two wheeled brothers of the current generation are a bunch of w******s. Whenever I hear one approaching at speed I get a bidon ready to squirt the road at my side. They give me a wide birth then.

pipipi

I hope the OP , his friends and , separately ,Cleats relative ,make complete recoveries.

It's stories like this that make cycling an adrenalin filled activity. And why I always give the missus a kiss before I ride. Makes you wonder about silly revenge theories like following the motorbike club in a great big van.

But again, I hope everyone gets out onto a bike with a smile on their faces soon. Fingers crossed.

dw300

Every time I read about something like this I put another Tenner in the helmet-cam fund.

t.m.h.n.e.t

dw300 wrote:

Every time I read about something like this I put another Tenner in the helmet-cam fund.

I sold mine after commutes became uneventful lol! Although I was commuting via motorcycle at the time

Could do with it now! Driving standards slip daily. Had a VIO POV1.5 - £500+ but a brilliant bit of kit

TheEnglishman

For a little over a tenner you can get a perfectly reasonable helmet cam, for commuting etc.

Here's me leaving Clapham Junction:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgccvRELaq0

Search fleabay for 'MD80 Camera' - the battery lasts about an hour and charges off USB - the memory is a microSD card.

vitesse169

Welsh_Wizard wrote:

Pross wrote:

Obviously a bad incident but the motorbike was not directly involved in the accident so it's not really failing to stop. As it's only the motorcyclist in question that has apparently given a statement hopefully the police will ask other club members for their version. As they appear to have been pretty helpful before and after the event hopefully they would give an honest account (although they may genuinely not have known what happened). Unfortunately whatever the provocation it is best to avoid giving lip back to someone in a faster and larger vehicle than you (although difficult to bite your tongue I know!).

This beginning bit is incorrect sorry - if the OP correctly describes the incident, the presence of the motorbike and the evasive action taken is clearly due to the motorbike riders riding-style. Suffice to say, had the motorbike not been there, the accident would not have happened - therefore, bike rider is duty bound under Section 170 of Road Traffic Act 88 to provide sufficient details to ascertain driver details..

+1, 'owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road, an accident occurs whereby injury or damage are caused to a vehicle/person/property...'
Seems that all the above fall into this category...

StillGoing

It isn't just an RTC though, the rider has deliberately aimed his vehicle at the rider whereby injury has been caused. That makes it an assault. Throw in his behaviour prior to the accident and there's sufficient to haul him in for interview and potential charge subject to CPS authorisation. The investigating officer can look at dangerous driving, assault, leaving the scene of an accident without disclosing details to person having cause to require them, failing to report an RTC to a police officer as soon as practicable and assault.

Welsh_Wizard

To get assault home in court you'd have to get him to admit on tape that he deliberately drove the vehicle at the rider in order to cause harm. Unlikely at best.

Besides, getting home in court a dangerous or reckless drive would be far easier and the fact that persons were injured as a result would be considered when he gets found guilty and given his disposal.

StillGoing

Welsh_Wizard wrote:

To get assault home in court you'd have to get him to admit on tape that he deliberately drove the vehicle at the rider in order to cause harm. Unlikely at best.

Besides, getting home in court a dangerous or reckless drive would be far easier and the fact that persons were injured as a result would be considered when he gets found guilty and given his disposal.

He would only have to admit it to receive a Police caution, he can be charged without an admission. That's the whole purpose of the courts to act as arbiter and decide who is telling the truth. Three riders who were victims of his action against his version. A dangerous driving conviction will limit the courts sentencing powers whereas reckless use of a mv as an instrument of assault could well see him get some bird if convicted as well as a disqualification. Irrespective of whether he was riled by the comments of the group, it is not a mitigating factor allowing him to aim his vehicle at them. He was not acting spontaneously in an effort to defend himself fearing an attack, but chose to put the riders at risk of injury either deliberately or recklessly thereby constituting an assault and when injury was the outcome, a battery. Looked at subjectively or objectively, the potential consequences of his recklessness were obvious.

sfichele

I've had a similar experience with motorbikes being gits

Was doing around 40-45 mph down the snake pass behind a car. Whilst going around a corner a motorbike has come out of nowhere, suddenly overtaken and is leaning into me with a few inches to spare forcing me to slow down to avoid wiping out. A few motorbikes later someone is shaking their fist at me because we are on the road spoiling there fun.

Go and look at some motorbike forums, they're all whining about how Audi drivers treat motorbikes, cutting them up, and overtaking badly, but a small few seem happy to dish it out to cyclists. Whilst the vast majority of guys on motorbikes seem to be okay, a small few seem to be no worth to society other than organ donors.

Hope the cops do something about the loon you've had the misfortune to encounter

Somerset Dibble

Welsh_Wizard wrote:

First off, horrendous experience. Although I'd be so angry too I'd also be counting my lucky stars that it wasn't worse.

One thing in your favour is this guy, whether he says you started it or not, is going to have to account why 3 riders are all injured. It's seems unlikely that your going to throw yourselves & expensive kit into the middle of the road without good cause. Supply the name of the person that you spoke too - possibly the 'tail end charlie' / TEC - of the ride out. All they need to do is confirm that you had the conversation on the side of the road and all of a sudden you have strong evidence in your favour.

Its funny you should mention that, It was the TEC who I had a conversation with after the incident and although I don't believe he saw it happen (the rider who caused it was second in line behind the lead rider of the group)he was witness to the aftermath and hopefully with confirm to the Police that we had a conversation about it. I have let the Police know that there was an interaction between myself and the TEC, just awaiting a response now.

Thanks

mroli

sfichele wrote:

IGo and look at some motorbike forums, they're all whining about how Audi drivers treat motorbikes, cutting them up, and overtaking badly, but a small few seem happy to dish it out to cyclists. Whilst the vast majority of guys on motorbikes seem to be okay, a small few seem to be no worth to society other than organ donors.

Same with cyclist though innit - you'll see them moaning about car drivers and motorcyclists, but then they'll jump reds, cycle on pavements etc.

There are idiots in every group of people - this bloke seems a particular idiot.

Somerset Dibble

Hi all,

Just thought i would give you a quick update on where things are at the moment.

Had a letter through from Devon and Cornwall Police Collisions Unit on the 27th July and its says that 'further to recent enquiries that have been conducted and on review of all the evidence available it has been decided to return this file to the Officer in Charge of the case or a nominated investigator who will conduct additional enquiries.

The Officer has been allocated 4 weeks in which to carry out these investigations and then the file will be returned to the Collisions unit for further review.'

Now I am looking at this as a positive step as it means the Collisions Unit are not throwing the case out straight away.......I will be pestering the Officer in charge on a weekly basis and will let you guys now what the final outcome is.

Thanks again!

dylanfernley

Good that its been referred back, fingers crossed that the police take this seriously, as you have collaborative witnesses they will have to give it some attention, good luck

airborne_warrior

Your word against the motorcyclists TBH and I'm betting the police will do nothing about it. They neither have the time, resources or will to go into depth into your case as they're under resourced, under staffed and over budget.

The motorcyclist sounds like a proper knob though.

mamba80

V bad, glad you were relatively ok.
As hard as it can be, getting into swopping verbal insults with car/lorry/motorcyclists (whatever the provocation) we usually come off worse - as i found out to my cost a few years.

Keep pursuing it and dont let the Police fob you off (which is what i let them do) Is there any legal protection via a Trade union or Household insurance you can use? BC member insurance perhaps?

Wirral_paul

There really are some scumbags out there!!

So OP - did you think about getting any legal advice? I'd be looking at the very least for a no win no fee solicitor to make a claim off the guy's insurance for damage and injuries! Clearly the police have the details of the guy, and as said previously, a solicitor should get this info straight away from the police.

Somerset Dibble

The fact is true as raised above that it is our word against his but I can guarantee there were witnesses in the other motorcycle club riders that were following this guy when he pulled of the dangerous manoeuvre described! But as I have said it appears they have closed ranks and not coming forward with information which is frustrating!

A good family friend who is a coroner has advised me to take this case to the small claims court and this is something I am looking into as well as the no win no fee types! Going to give the Police the benefit of the doubt at the moment and hope they come through with something as well.

It does bring home how completely vulnerable you are as a cyclist on the roads nowadays no matter how competent a bike handler you are you just can't predict the actions of other road users especially when they are as reckless as the motorbike rider was with us!

rc856

Sorry to hear about this and disappointed it's involving someone on 2 wheels!
Not sure about down south but in Scotland, I wouldn't be giving you the details of the person either.
A road crash report gets filled out with everyone's details and then insurers etc apply for a copy.
Saves folk turning up at someone else's home for a bit of retribution etc.

I agree that you might be lucky getting something with regards to the driving if his pals are backing him but but you have all 3 of you speaking to him swearing at you which could be a separate breach of the peace/public order offence etc.

I like the newspaper idea which I'm sure the bike club wouldn't like the bad press if you speak to them again.

Good luck