Avid Elixir 'feel'

Welsh_Wizard · July 2012

Just bought EpicBleedSolutions Avid bleed kit for £15 delivered. Kit has enough dot fluid for 4 to 5 bleeds. Doing it tomorrow so will let you know how easy it is and how they perform afterwards. (Elixir 1's)

Obs1dian · July 2012

My experience of a poor factory bleed is that the levers travelled way too far in before getting decent performance. I bought an imitation bleed kit which did not work and leaked fluid all over the place. I sent it back and forked out for the official one.

YeehaaMcgee · July 2012

lawman wrote:

Buy some m785 Xts and you'll see just how much better they are. Game changing brakes.

I absolutely agree. After riding almost every disc brake that's been available since the mid-late 90s, the XTM785s are just unbelievably good.
Zero problems, huge clearance at rest, meaning no mud/rubbing issues, ridonculous power, zero heat issues, zero pump issues, no maintenance, and the pads even last a long time.
They have raised the bar for mountain bike disc brakes.

bennett_346 · July 2012

Woody80 wrote:

By poor factory bleed is everyone referring to my issue of too much lever travel rather than having air in and needing pumping to get them to work?

Just want to check before I reach for the syringe.....

Yep. No air just excessive lever throw.

Chris`I · July 2012

bennett_346 wrote:

Woody80 wrote:

By poor factory bleed is everyone referring to my issue of too much lever travel rather than having air in and needing pumping to get them to work?

Just want to check before I reach for the syringe.....

Yep. No air just excessive lever throw.

Always been my problem too. I am still trying to find a brake that will give me the feel my old Magura HS33's did :oops:

Speaking to the missus, we've decided that I'm just strange in how I like my brake setup and I like my bite point far sooner in the throw than anyone else. She didnt need the pad/piston fettling that I did so we've decided that fettling I mention about moving the pads/pistons is purely because I like it so close/soon. This only needs doing twice in the pads life from my experience, once when they are new and again when half worn (ish). As I say I've seen a vid on Hope website that mentioned how to move them in so they must be fairly similar in this respect. Its only noticeable this time around as I went through a set of pads in Morzine in a week.

Given most people go through multiple sets of pads in Morzine, I think they held up pretty good. Should also be noted that my Elixir CRs which the 9's replaced were only bled once a year and didnt require any other maintenance. The 9's had a bleed when new and havent had any other messing around other than the slight pad adjustment.

I tried XTs in a carpark and the lever throw was too long before engagement for me and then it seemed quite sudden in its application. I really need to try a set on the trails.

YeehaaMcgee · July 2012

I'm not sure whether or not you're aware of the concept behind it, but the general idea of having the lever bite point fairly close to the bar is that you can have your hand flexed naturally when the brakes are applied, rather than have stretched out fingers on the brakes, which can cause arm pump, and finger pain.

XTs do have tool-less reach adjustment, but I'm not sure if they will wind out far enough for you.
Erm, actually, fu** it, I'll go and have a fiddle with mine - it's a slow afternoon at work anyway...

Yep, the reach adjustment winds out quite far, and there's also a "free stroke" adjuster, but you need a phillips screwdriver to adjust that, and I can't be arrised. I'm pretty sure you could set them up how you like.

Chris`I · July 2012

Hmm, interesting, think I need to get a go on some XTs where I can have a proper fiddle. Elixirs feel awesome when I've just set them up, they just dont seem to stay perfect once the pads start to wear. They dont change enough that I have to fettle them but would prefer it if they felt the same throughout the pads life. Perhaps I expect too much from them

I like my brakes so the reach adjust is set properly for a relaxed hand, but also so that the bite then kicks in quickly. Its not how you *should* have it set but its how I like it to feel for some reason.

YeehaaMcgee · July 2012

Chris`I wrote:

I like my brakes so the reach adjust is set properly for a relaxed hand, but also so that the bite then kicks in quickly. Its not how you *should* have it set but its how I like it to feel for some reason.

Yeah, you can definitely do that, that's pretty much how mine work.

Welsh_Wizard · July 2012

Bled both brakes this afternoon. Extremely easy to do, even for a mechanical muppet such as myself.

I noticed, especially on the rear brake a lot of shite coming out of the lines when pre-bleeding. Don't know how this gets in there but it's reassuring to know that the lines are now clean.

When I went though all the steps I really wanted to make sure I had ample pressure in the levers as I am also suffering from spongey 'feel', despite the brakes being only 3 months old.

I still have the feel despite bleeding the lines which reinforces the above comments about it being a level-reach adjustment issue as opposed to being a line bleed issue.

Off to see Batman now so will tinker with the lever reach adjuster tomorrow.

Another shout to Epic Bleed Solutions. Really good postage, quality looking and easy to follow instructions (aided by Chuck's Pinkbike 'Bleed' video)

compo · July 2012

This happened to me on Thursday mid ride with my Elixir 3s, I don't know ifit eing soaking wet would have had an effect, but there was a lot of squealing?

Would it not be an option just to simply change the reach of the lever so it is further out from the bar?

ilovedirt · July 2012

I bought some elixir 5's brand new a few months ago. Yeah they do feel a bit spongy/soft compared to my formulas, but they're still pretty powerful. Though they probably could do with a bleed, the factory bleed was crap.

lawman · July 2012

I find it quite amusing how people are saying avids are reliable... when they have problems themselves and practically everyone who has posted in this thread who has avid brakes has had problems/niggles or bad bleeds... Myself, yeehaa and other xt users have had zero issues or complaints... just saying

ilovedirt · July 2012

lawman wrote:

I find it quite amusing how people are saying avids are reliable... when they have problems themselves and practically everyone who has posted in this thread who has avid brakes has had problems/niggles or bad bleeds... Myself, yeehaa and other xt users have had zero issues or complaints... just saying

Can't afford XTs at the minute. TBH, once I'm riding the bike, I barely notice the fact that they could do with a bleed unless it's so bad that they're pulling to the bar (it's not). They're a lot more maintenance free than my Formulas anyway.

lawman · July 2012

ilovedirt wrote:

lawman wrote:

I find it quite amusing how people are saying avids are reliable... when they have problems themselves and practically everyone who has posted in this thread who has avid brakes has had problems/niggles or bad bleeds... Myself, yeehaa and other xt users have had zero issues or complaints... just saying

Can't afford XTs at the minute. TBH, once I'm riding the bike, I barely notice the fact that they could do with a bleed unless it's so bad that they're pulling to the bar (it's not). They're a lot more maintenance free than my Formulas anyway.

Formula's seem to eat brake pads from what I've seen, between the group of guys I ride with, we have hope new and old models, formula k18's, hayes 9, numerous generations of shimano including my xt's, avid and magura, so a pretty good range of models to try, most trouble free have been shimano, hope and hayes, formula not far behind but eat pads like no bodies business. Magura and avids have been pretty shocking, 3 sets of dodgy elixers and an average set of juicy 5's. By contrast we have over 6 pairs of hopes and 4 sets of shimano and they have had zero problems.

bennett_346 · July 2012

lawman wrote:

I find it quite amusing how people are saying avids are reliable... when they have problems themselves and practically everyone who has posted in this thread who has avid brakes has had problems/niggles or bad bleeds... Myself, yeehaa and other xt users have had zero issues or complaints... just saying

Do you work for Shimano or something? You seem intent on banning elixirs from the face of the planet. Some of us don't care about a perfect component we just want to ride the bike.

angry_bird · July 2012

Had a pair of juicy 3s, they were fine for 2 years, think I bled them once in that time. Admittedly they did go down hill beyond that and took a lot of fiddling around with, went on for another year with them though but I did have 2 instances where they failed to stop me, admittedly one of them was because the pads were completely worn out, so I kind of wasn't using them. Still, broken brakes aren't good.

Currently got 2 pairs of elixirs and not a problem with them yet. Do exactly what I want them to do, couldn't ask for anything more.

FWIW I tried a bike with some XTs on the other week. They were nice brakes but nowhere near as impressive as I was expecting given all the hype everyone makes about them, they felt nice and powerful but didn't seem to feel as nice as my brakes, but then I guess it's something you get used to.
Certainly in no hurry to rush out and replace my elixirs with them. If the elixirs do start giving me issues and I get fed up I'll probably buy a pair of XTs though. Nicest pair of brakes I've tried were Hope somethings, was really impressed by them, but then they're really expensive and there seem to be mixed opinions on hope brakes too.

bennett_346 · July 2012

Theyre really not as bad as people make them out to be, yeah you get a poor factory bleed but its easy to rectify and everyone should have a bleed kit for their brakes anyway. Once youve solved the factory bleed then you never need to mess with them again.

ilovedirt · July 2012

lawman wrote:

ilovedirt wrote:

lawman wrote:

I find it quite amusing how people are saying avids are reliable... when they have problems themselves and practically everyone who has posted in this thread who has avid brakes has had problems/niggles or bad bleeds... Myself, yeehaa and other xt users have had zero issues or complaints... just saying

Can't afford XTs at the minute. TBH, once I'm riding the bike, I barely notice the fact that they could do with a bleed unless it's so bad that they're pulling to the bar (it's not). They're a lot more maintenance free than my Formulas anyway.

Formula's seem to eat brake pads from what I've seen, between the group of guys I ride with, we have hope new and old models, formula k18's, hayes 9, numerous generations of shimano including my xt's, avid and magura, so a pretty good range of models to try, most trouble free have been shimano, hope and hayes, formula not far behind but eat pads like no bodies business. Magura and avids have been pretty shocking, 3 sets of dodgy elixers and an average set of juicy 5's. By contrast we have over 6 pairs of hopes and 4 sets of shimano and they have had zero problems.

All the Hope brakes I've tried have been awful, no power, crap lever feel and cheese grater lever blades, I'd never buy Hope brakes.
Shimano brakes are good from what I can gather yeah, but the lever feel is a bit weird...
My Formulas are nice, but they need a lot of work to keep them aligned properly, stop them getting sticky pistons etc and go through pad like nobodies business.
Magura brakes are crap, like you say....
My Avids have always been fine up to a certain point (a good couple of years), despite needing bleeding a bit, but generally fairly reliable, and my Elixirs are testament to that. I don't know what trouble you had with yours, but generally, Avids aren't the best brakes you can buy, but are reliable enough, powerful enough and easy to get hold of parts for and easy to maintain. I've had very little trouble with them, and don't have any real complaints, especially given how little they cost.

lawman · July 2012

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

I find it quite amusing how people are saying avids are reliable... when they have problems themselves and practically everyone who has posted in this thread who has avid brakes has had problems/niggles or bad bleeds... Myself, yeehaa and other xt users have had zero issues or complaints... just saying

Do you work for Shimano or something? You seem intent on banning elixirs from the face of the planet. Some of us don't care about a perfect component we just want to ride the bike.

Nope, I just despise avid brakes with a passion

I honestly see no reason to like them. They have on the whole a generally poor reliability record, I dont like they way they need to bleed, I dont like the lever shape at all its far too flat, they have average power and the tri-align system of mounting just seems over complicated. I also generally dislike sram stuff, but experiences in the workshop at work and also those of people I ride with regularly have put me off avid brakes .

supersonic · July 2012

More powerful than Hope, by a long way!

bennett_346 · July 2012

lawman wrote:

They have on the whole a generally poor reliability record, do they? i've known at least 15 people with them and they haven't had any problems (honestly), yet the people i know with other brakes have had problems.

I dont like they way they need to bleed, really easy and allows fine tuning of the lever feel, but granted DOT fluid is a pain.

I dont like the lever shape at all its far too flat, personal taste, i prefer it to a curvy lever.

they have average power managed to stop and slow me very well in alpine DH runs

and the tri-align system of mounting just seems over complicated, simple and works well, if you're confused by a couple of washers god help you.

I also generally dislike sram stuff so you aren't biased then

Woody80 · July 2012

I've started a right debate here!

Going to try the bleeding option first then. Is it worth buying the proper Avid kit or are the aftermarket ones any good? Might have lost my bleed block as well, can you buy replacements?

lawman · July 2012

supersonic wrote:

More powerful than Hope, by a long way!

Was it not in a recent WMB brake mega-test that the race x2's evos tested more powerful than xt and xtr on the dyno? I do find this hard to believe personally.

Granted first gen tech and older hope brakes aren't massively powerful, but apparently they have improved with newer models. As for power, a set of xx world cup brakes I tried were like going back ten years, very poor given the price.

Bennett, the reason I stated that tri align was over-complicated was what does it do exactly other than add un-needed parts? yes its just a few washers, but what advantage does it give you over other systems?

Woody80 · July 2012

I thought Avids have always come out well in group tests as well for both feel and power. Can't say I've ever felt like I need more power.

bennett_346 · July 2012

Woody80 wrote:

I've started a right debate here!

Going to try the bleeding option first then. Is it worth buying the proper Avid kit or are the aftermarket ones any good? Might have lost my bleed block as well, can you buy replacements?

official bleed kit is very good, and comes with the bleed blocks. just remember to shave a mm or two off it to get a nice lever feel.

YeehaaMcgee · July 2012

lawman wrote:

I find it quite amusing how people are saying avids are reliable... when they have problems themselves and practically everyone who has posted in this thread who has avid brakes has had problems/niggles or bad bleeds... Myself, yeehaa and other xt users have had zero issues or complaints... just saying

Ditto. I don't get paid by Shimano either, although I wish I did. But every single person I know who runs, or has run Avid hydraulic discs has had problems with inconsistency and leaks.
My unfortunate mate is the icing on the cake, he fitted some Avids to his bike at the end of last summer, and never rode them. He went to get his bike out about a month ago, and they'd failed on him, rear one was leaking badly from virtually everywhere, and the front had a seized piston.

The only issue I have with Formulas is that folk have been having a hell of a time getting parts for them, leaving them bikeless for well over a month - and then often having to send them straight back to be fixed properly, or order more parts. When they work they seem fine, and have a nice lever feel, but still lack the ultimate power of XTs, and the ability to handle long brake-heavy descents without heat issues.

cat_with_no_tail · July 2012

You utter utter bsatards!!

I was going to post on this thread on Weds to say I've not had any issues with the Elixir CRs on my Reed but I couldn't be bothered.

I've come to go for a ride today and found that the front seems to have lost all pressure for (as far as I can tell) no reason whatsoever. I mean, it's like someone was round my house last night taking fluid out. There are no leaks as far as I can see, the pads are practically new, they've just..... stopped working.

Lawman, you been sneaking round my house tampering with my brakes again? The judge specifically told you it has to stop.

Up to this point, I've liked them very much, good lever feel, great power, and so on. All of this has now been made null and void by the fact they've packed up on me. Cnuts!

bennett_346 · July 2012

I think i must be the luckiest Avid user out here

How old are they?

cat_with_no_tail · July 2012

mine? about 4 months old.

YeehaaMcgee · July 2012

Cat With No Tail wrote:

Lawman, you been sneaking round my house tampering with my brakes again? The judge specifically told you it has to stop.

I did it for him - Holyhead port is only half an hour away so it's much easier for me to sneak over in the night.

Avid Elixir 'feel'

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