Avid Elixir 'feel'

Woody80

I've got a set of Avid Elixir 7s (2012) on my Strive and they seem a little on the soft side in the way the lever feels. Basically I've noticed as the pads are wearing you can pull the lever closer to the bar to the point that, depending on the lever reach adjustment, you can get them against the bar.

They don't feel like they've got air as it doesn't make a difference if you pump them and are fine when they have new pads. It's just when they start to get thin that the lever will come back to the bar.

Is this normal? I've used Formula RXs and Juicy 3s in the past and didn't notice this. It caught me out the other day when practicing manuals/bunnyhops and I looped the bike since the brake didn't bite when I thought. I now have a massive bruise on my ar$e which isn't ideal :oops:

nicklouse

check that the rotor is not being moved by the pads when applied.

Blind Danny Johnson

Woody80 wrote:

I've got a set of Avid Elixir 7s (2012) on my Strive and they seem a little on the soft side in the way the lever feels. Basically I've noticed as the pads are wearing you can pull the lever closer to the bar to the point that, depending on the lever reach adjustment, you can get them against the bar.

They don't feel like they've got air as it doesn't make a difference if you pump them and are fine when they have new pads. It's just when they start to get thin that the lever will come back to the bar.

I have Elixir 1s and they feel exactly like you describe. It feels weird when I'm not riding ie sitting on the bike and pulling the levers but I don't notice it when I'm riding. I recently rode my other bike which has Shimano XTs on and they have a very definite 'bite point' feel to them and I found myself locking up the back a bit more than I wanted to but I guess that this is because I'm more used to the Elixirs at the moment. Not sure what I prefer really, just a case of getting used to it I suppose...?

sandy771

The elixirs on my Trance are the same - horrible - don't remember them being like this when it was new.

bennett_346

guys the fix is to bleed them with a thinner than normal bleed block, overfilling the system. brings the lever throw right back to a good feel.

Woody80

bennett_346 wrote:

guys the fix is to bleed them with a thinner than normal bleed block, overfilling the system. brings the lever throw right back to a good feel.

Does that work then without them dragging on the rotor? They're getting to be a pain and make me want to change pads before they're shot just to retain some feel!

lawman

Theyre avid brakes... ergo they will rarely work properly and are just plain shite. Buy some m785 Xts and you'll see just how much better they are. Game changing brakes.

Woody80

lawman wrote:

Theyre avid brakes... ergo they will rarely work properly and are just plain shite. Buy some m785 Xts and you'll see just how much better they are. Game changing brakes.

Are they really that good? I had considered it but it seems a waste to junk a set of 5 month old "decent" brakes!

bennett_346

Or just bleed them properly and spend the £150 on beer.

lawman

put it this way, I thought my old limited edition hope x2's were the dogs danglies, then I tried the new xt's... and the hopes were instantly chucked on the classifieds and now both my bikes have xts. I have used or tested most higher end brakes, including ever elixer model barring the xx versions, the lever shape is poor, they are terribly un-reliable, I used to work in my LBS and no joke i must have seen a pair of broken avids atleast 3 times a month. they are very hit and miss, some sets are fine, other aren't but I would say for every set thats fine, a damn sight more will have issues, bleeding is a right pita, and often requires more than one bleed, they just arent worth the hassle.

The xts are more reliable, and any initial niggles have been ironed out, they have the best lever shape out there by a mile, are stupidly powerful and very modulated, and if bought from ze germans can be had for a pittance. To me its a no brainer. there are avid, errrr avid fans out there that will tell you otherwise, but most of the time they havent tried anything else. Want a top quality pair of brakes at any price range? buy shimano

bennett_346

lawman wrote:

put it this way, I thought my old limited edition hope x2's were the dogs danglies

Then why did you change them? What a waste of money.

Yes you've ended up with something "better" but if you were already happy with what you had and knew no better you may as well of spent the money on changing something you didn't like.

Unless you're telling porkies.

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

put it this way, I thought my old limited edition hope x2's were the dogs danglies

Then why did you change them? What a waste of money.

Yes you've ended up with something "better" but if you were already happy with what you had and knew no better you may as well of spent the money on changing something you didn't like.

Unless you're telling porkies.

They were the dogs danglies, I should have elaborated, I tried the Xt's and moving away to uni I was riding more demanding trails, and after the xt's the x2's felt under-powered. So I sold the x2's and my minis from my second bike and got 2 sets of xt's, one set with icetech rotors, the other with some rotors already on the bike. I got the xts from rose and with a few vouchers I had and the sale of the hopes, got 2 brand spanking new sets of Xt's and got £90 profit, because hope stuff goes for stupid money on ebay. So not only did I get new brakes I got some fancy new easton havoc carbon bars and matching haven stem too. Better brakes and bars/stem for pretty much nothing? Bloody good deal if you ask me!

Clank

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

put it this way, I thought my old limited edition hope x2's were the dogs danglies

Then why did you change them? What a waste of money.

Yes you've ended up with something "better" but if you were already happy with what you had and knew no better you may as well of spent the money on changing something you didn't like.

Unless you're telling porkies.

I'd love to know how some people expereince new things. :roll:

Woody80

Shame the XTs won't fit a matchmaker clamp (I'd assume?), I like the way my cockpit is setup with the shifters, brakes and Reverb remote all in the right places. It'd seem a shame to move it all about!

The bleeding idea sounds promising but it seems that every Elixir bleed story is a disaster! I'm off to the Alps in 2.5 weeks so not sure I want to go bleeding right now just in case I'm not going to get a chance to right it if it goes wrong!

lawman

If I had one criticism of the XT's its that it doesnt well when the reverb remote is under the bar like a left hand shifter, but that really is seriously nit-picking

bennett_346

I'd still just fix what i had. Elixirs arent half as bad as people say, i've had various sets over the past three years and ive rode DH in the alps on them.

Woody80

bennett_346 wrote:

I'd still just fix what i had. Elixirs arent half as bad as people say, i've had various sets over the past three years and ive rode DH in the alps on them.

Are they actually ok to bleed? What do you use as a bleed block?

bennett_346

Theyre really easy to bleed, and just sand/file about 2mm off the standard bleed block and bleed as normal, then when youre done push the pistons right back in and fit the pads. If you end up overfilling it too much just let a little bit out the lever.

rockmonkeysc

Well bled Elixir's are great, just as good as anything else.
My Elixir X0's are extremely powerful with great feel. My old Elixir 3's are pretty good, they need bleeding every six months but I think a lot of Elixir's are badly bled from new.

Mojo_666

Factory bleed appears poor, but they are good brakes when bled.

stevieboy308

bennett_346 wrote:

guys the fix is to bleed them with a thinner than normal bleed block, overfilling the system. brings the lever throw right back to a good feel.

but does that mean you have to let fluid out to fit new pads? then start adding as they wear? and adjusting the the reach adjuster as the pads wear?

i don't see what the advantage is over conventional hydraulic brakes?

when i couldn't fit a new set of pads in because i'd bled them on part worn pads it was the final straw that led to me clicking buy on a set of xt's

Chris`I

The factory bleed, even in the new airtrap models is quite poor, especially if you've had some that have sat around for a while. Bleeding is very easy, dont really get what people moan about. Bled 2 sets of Elixir 9 Carbons before heading to the Alps, they both performed just fine, never failed, overheated, etc.

I have noticed that the bite point seems to move on these new models and doesnt track the pad wear. I have found that if you apply the brake and then manually push the pads towards the disc more (small screwdriver between the pad and near the piston) then you can extend the piston a mm more and this takes up the slack. Theres a video on Hope website about centering callipers, this uses the same method and works well for me.

Other alternative as said above is to use a smaller bleed block so that the bite point starts off closer to the disc when pads are new, wind back the reach adjust and then wind it in as the pads wear.

Tried out XTs in the Alps and TBH they felt very wooden compared to the Elixir, but this was just a carpark test.

lawman

Wow these elixers sound awesome! you have over fill them, then let some out and you have to manually adjust them for wear, like cable brakes, and reset the pistons at the bottom of every downhill sounds great to me!1

:roll:

bennett_346

lawman wrote:

Wow these elixers sound awesome! you have over fill them, then let some out and you have to manually adjust them for wear, like cable brakes, and reset the pistons at the bottom of every downhill sounds great to me!1

:roll:

I'd still rather do that and spend the £150 on beer.

rockmonkeysc

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

Wow these elixers sound awesome! you have over fill them, then let some out and you have to manually adjust them for wear, like cable brakes, and reset the pistons at the bottom of every downhill sounds great to me!1

:roll:

I'd still rather do that and spend the £150 on beer.

I would rather spend it on rough cider.

bennett_346

You damn westerners

Mojo_666

lawman wrote:

Wow these elixers sound awesome! you have over fill them, then let some out and you have to manually adjust them for wear, like cable brakes, and reset the pistons at the bottom of every downhill sounds great to me!1

:roll:

I have never had to do that, the factory bleed is below par on some that's all.

bennett_346

Yeah i might add that all i've ever had to do on 3/3 of the sets i've had on various bikes over the years is rebleed the poor factory bleed an leave them alone after that. You could argue it's better to be able to adjust the lever throw to what you want, where on shimano's you're stuck with whatever they come as.

lawman

so the factory bleeds are poor, you need a £40 bleed kit to bleed them, which need doing every 6 months or so on some sets and my comments above were taken from the post by chris...

And you should be spending your £150 on hookers, jeezz

For what its worth, a decent set of avids would fetch around £100 on ebay, depending on model, and considering a set of slx's will cost you that from germany, for a better, more reliable brake for nothing... where does this £150 come from?

There will always be people wanting avids for whatever reason, wrongly imo, but hey ho, and a free upgrade/change is nothing to be sniffed at, you might even make some money like I did

Obs1dian

I have been running Avid Elixir 5s. The factory bleed was poor, however once bled properly they were really excellent brakes. For me the modulation of them was spot on and they provided enough power with a 185mm rotor up front and 160mm out back.

Woody80

By poor factory bleed is everyone referring to my issue of too much lever travel rather than having air in and needing pumping to get them to work?

Just want to check before I reach for the syringe.....