Sir Brad and/or Sir Dave

Yellow Peril

The honours system is something that is, I believe, perculiarly British.

Does the forum think that if Team Sky are successful in winning the yellow jersey at the Tour that Dave and/or Brad will be knighted? Or will it depend upon further success at the Olympics?

alwaystoohot

Can't make my mind up if its just a Mickey Mouse post or we've finally become a Mickey Mouse nation.

estampida

it all depends:

If they have a cosy deal between their newspaper and the current government

they are throwing hundreds of thousands of pounds in to the party funds

and went to Oxbridge or Eton

they they will get top notch peerage

otherwise its OBE o'clock

jim453

Alwaystoohot wrote:

Can't make my mind up if its just a Mickey Mouse post or we've finally become a Mickey Mouse nation.

A little from column A, a little from column B.

rick_chasey

Seems a bit much getting a sir.

Some recognition sure.

jim453

Rick Chasey wrote:

Seems a bit much getting a sir.

Some recognition sure.

Certainly not until you get yours for services to moderation Richard. Keep up the good work.

derbygrimpeur

Do you think winning Le Tour (in addition to all Brad's other Olympic glories and recent stage race wins) is a greater achievement than Chris Hoy's? Personally, I do. Therefore it would seem reasonable to expect a knighthood for Wiggins. Bonkers, but I think the logic is sound.

For Brailsford, again, I think logic would suggest that he should get onwe, but probably not just now. He'll have won nearly everything worthwhile in cycling, with the only exceptions being the Giro and Vuelta (and he came close there)

Yellow Peril

I was just thinking in terms of sporting achievement. Steve Redgrave was knighted for his 5 gold medals. Clive Woodward was knighted for his management of the world cup winning England rugby team , would the people that decide these things rate a TdF win alongside that?

I think they both have gongs of some sort at the moment.

I don't want to incur anyone's wrath on this, I'm ambivalent towards the honours system. It is a rest day after all

jim453

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Do you think winning Le Tour (in addition to all Brad's other Olympic glories and recent stage race wins) is a greater achievement than Chris Hoy's? Personally, I do. Therefore it would seem reasonable to expect a knighthood for Wiggins. Bonkers, but I think the logic is sound.

For Brailsford, again, I think logic would suggest that he should get onwe, but probably not just now. He'll have won nearly everything worthwhile in cycling, with the only exceptions being the Giro and Vuelta (and he came close there)

Only two of cycling three grand tours missing from his 'palmares' then?

derbygrimpeur

jim453 wrote:

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Do you think winning Le Tour (in addition to all Brad's other Olympic glories and recent stage race wins) is a greater achievement than Chris Hoy's? Personally, I do. Therefore it would seem reasonable to expect a knighthood for Wiggins. Bonkers, but I think the logic is sound.

For Brailsford, again, I think logic would suggest that he should get onwe, but probably not just now. He'll have won nearly everything worthwhile in cycling, with the only exceptions being the Giro and Vuelta (and he came close there)

Only two of cycling three grand tours missing from his 'palmares' then?

well, yes. But think about EVERYTHING else - all those olympic achievements, men and women. Cavendish, world champion. Smaller (but highly respected) stage races. The women's road successes. If he could add Olympic RR (& TT?) this year that would probably be more significant to queenie than the other two GTs

Le Commentateur

They'll quietly sound him out first, in case he's not interested. Can't be seen to have a subject publicly refuse a knighthood.

Personally this kind of thing seems a parasitical act by the Establishment, particularly in these difficult times for the country when people might otherwise be questioning the veracity of the networks that run our banking, business and political spheres. Bread and circuses...

nweststeyn

Daves already been honoured twice, becoming an MBE in 2005 and a CBE in 2009. Logical next step innit?

jedster

I reckon Brailsford deserves a K. He's revolutionised British cycling and his management of the cycling set-up has become the benchmark for most British teams. The GC in the Tour and a decent Olympics and I think he gets it and I'd say it would be more merited than Woodward and Hoy (nothing against either of them).

lostboysaint

jedster wrote:

I reckon Brailsford deserves a K. He's revolutionised British cycling and his management of the cycling set-up has become the benchmark for most British teams. The GC in the Tour and a decent Olympics and I think he gets it and I'd say it would be more merited than Woodward and Hoy (nothing against either of them).

That.

TheStone

I'd imagine they'll both get one eventually.

... unless, I ever get in charge of the country and put an end to all this prescribed respect nonsense.

Tom Butcher

If Hoy and Redgrave are worth one for their sporting achievements then a Tour win on its own should be worth one - that said Hoy and Redgrave conduct themselves in a way probably more to the liking of the people who give these honours out. I doubt Sir Bradley calling people c***s and w*****s in press conferences and at stage finishes would go down that well with the establishment - so I think he'll have to wait a few years.

wallace_and_gromit

Tom Butcher wrote:

If Hoy and Redgrave are worth one for their sporting achievements then a Tour win on its own should be worth one - that said Hoy and Redgrave conduct themselves in a way probably more to the liking of the people who give these honours out. I doubt Sir Bradley calling people c***s and w*****s in press conferences and at stage finishes would go down that well with the establishment - so I think he'll have to wait a few years.

I think a Tour win plus the three Olympic golds would equal Hoy's achievements, but not Redgrave's. To be at the top for so long whilst overcoming colitis and diabetes, as Sir Steve has done, will take some topping.

I am slightly biased, having spent the first twenty years of my adult life rowing, but respect where it's due. Rowing is one seriously tough sport. More painful than cycling if truth be told, albeit over shorter durations.

Sir Chris was lucky that Wiggo and Cav didn't win the Madison in Beijing. I agree that Wiggo is perhaps not the establishment's idea of a suitable Knight of the Realm, so if he'd got three golds in Beijing, it would have been hard/impossible to Knight Hoy without Wiggo.

garryc

I find the whole honors system a waste of time and even more so for sportsmen/women.

Simply put it's Chris Hoy's 'job' to try and win a bike race (or any other sportsperson etc). To give them an extra special award just for doing their job well seems daft, they'll get a trophy for winning as it is. I don't get medals for turning my work in on time, I also trained for years to do what I do, so what's the difference?

Medals should be for things above and beyond the 'call of duty' not for doing your job well.

Daz555

Wiggins might get a knighthood but I reckon it will be after he retires - he just doesn't fit the profile at the moment - even though I quite like his attitude.

derbygrimpeur

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Rowing is one seriously tough sport. More painful than cycling if truth be told, albeit over shorter durations.

Are you on a wind up? I can see that rowing is painful, but races are extremely short. Cycling has those short intense efforts but also much longer sustained efforts, plus three week long tours! Sorry, but I can't imagine how rowing comes close to cycling in terms of pain (especially when you factor in injuries, saddle sores etc.).

rick_chasey

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Rowing is one seriously tough sport. More painful than cycling if truth be told, albeit over shorter durations.

Are you on a wind up? I can see that rowing is painful, but races are extremely short. Cycling has those short intense efforts but also much longer sustained efforts, plus three week long tours! Sorry, but I can't imagine how rowing comes close to cycling in terms of pain (especially when you factor in injuries, saddle sores etc.).

Different pain innit.

It's pretty brutal.

As is cross country skiing.

me-109

garryc wrote:

I find the whole honors system a waste of time and even more so for sportsmen/women.

Simply put it's Chris Hoy's 'job' to try and win a bike race (or any other sportsperson etc). To give them an extra special award just for doing their job well seems daft, they'll get a trophy for winning as it is. I don't get medals for turning my work in on time, I also trained for years to do what I do, so what's the difference?

Medals should be for things above and beyond the 'call of duty' not for doing your job well.

I find myself in agreement. It is awarded 'for services to the sport' but their services relate to winning for themselves, usually in this country by lots of self-sacrifice rather than establishment help. Awarding merits for those that help others and help in the background sits easier with me; they are not getting the personal glory, winnings, sponsorship earnings and all the other trappings of the sportsperson.

wallace_and_gromit

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Rowing is one seriously tough sport. More painful than cycling if truth be told, albeit over shorter durations.

Are you on a wind up? I can see that rowing is painful, but races are extremely short. Cycling has those short intense efforts but also much longer sustained efforts, plus three week long tours! Sorry, but I can't imagine how rowing comes close to cycling in terms of pain (especially when you factor in injuries, saddle sores etc.).

The duration may be short, but the intensity of the pain is in a league of its own. This is my personal view, however, and your perception of pain may be different to mine, so try a 2000m time trial on a Concept 2 ergometer. This should redefine the meaning of pain for you.

Plus, rowers have to train in cr*p, cold weather in the winter and can't wear gloves.

Daz555

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Rowing is one seriously tough sport. More painful than cycling if truth be told, albeit over shorter durations.

Are you on a wind up? I can see that rowing is painful, but races are extremely short. Cycling has those short intense efforts but also much longer sustained efforts, plus three week long tours! Sorry, but I can't imagine how rowing comes close to cycling in terms of pain (especially when you factor in injuries, saddle sores etc.).

I suppose the key is that rowers (due to their stable seated position in the boat) are able to row themselves closer to their maximum limit in competition than most other sports - it is not uncommon to see rowers collapse in the boat following a race. If a cyclist pushed themselves to that level on a climb their race would be over and as they approached such a limit it would be impossible to remain upright and straight.

I don't doubt that cyclists push themselves to the same point in training - you see them with matresses laid out on each side of their static bikes for when they collapse - but rowers sometimes end up going just as hard under race conditions.

derbygrimpeur

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Rowing is one seriously tough sport. More painful than cycling if truth be told, albeit over shorter durations.

Are you on a wind up? I can see that rowing is painful, but races are extremely short. Cycling has those short intense efforts but also much longer sustained efforts, plus three week long tours! Sorry, but I can't imagine how rowing comes close to cycling in terms of pain (especially when you factor in injuries, saddle sores etc.).

The duration may be short, but the intensity of the pain is in a league of its own. This is my personal view, however, and your perception of pain may be different to mine, so try a 2000m time trial on a Concept 2 ergometer. This should redefine the meaning of pain for you.

Plus, rowers have to train in cr*p, cold weather in the winter and can't wear gloves.

There's no point in us arguing the toss on this. You won't convince me that rowing is more painful than cycling and I won't convince you it's not. Rowing is painful, I'm not suggesting otherwise. And yes it might make the arms ache a little . But overall, I really can't see that it can be more painful than what some of the pro cyclists have to put up with. Most amateur cyclists probably don't experience that.

derbygrimpeur

Daz555 wrote:

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Rowing is one seriously tough sport. More painful than cycling if truth be told, albeit over shorter durations.

Are you on a wind up? I can see that rowing is painful, but races are extremely short. Cycling has those short intense efforts but also much longer sustained efforts, plus three week long tours! Sorry, but I can't imagine how rowing comes close to cycling in terms of pain (especially when you factor in injuries, saddle sores etc.).

I suppose the key is that rowers (due to their stable seated position in the boat) are able to row themselves closer to their maximum limit in competition than most other sports - it is not uncommon to see rowers collapse in the boat following a race. If a cyclist pushed themselves to that level on a climb their race would be over and as they approached such a limit it would be impossible to remain upright and straight.

I don't doubt that cyclists push themselves to the same point in training - you see them with matresses laid out on each side of their static bikes for when they collapse - but rowers sometimes end up going just as hard under race conditions.

cyclists do the same in races. Think it was the vuelta last year where they had people catching riders at the top of mountains. And look at Millar after his win the other days and (I think) the Worlds TT last year?

estampida

Network through the rowing

and your mates will be a mix of peers and mp's at the regatta.......

Network through cycling

and your mates are other cyclists at a meet / races...........

pimms oclock for more than a OBE / MBE

wallace_and_gromit

derbygrimpeur wrote:

There's no point in us arguing the toss on this.

Indeed not. They are both great sports with nigh on limitless potential for putting yourself in the "pain box" only to discover someone has nailed the lid shut when you want to get out.

Tusher

Was Cadel rewarded with any honours last year?

RichN95.

Tusher wrote:

Was Cadel rewarded with any honours last year?

They don't give them to Aussies these days, they have their own gongs.

(There are some exceptions for Aussies who have British nationality)

Le Commentateur

Daz555 wrote:

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Wallace and Gromit wrote:

Rowing is one seriously tough sport. More painful than cycling if truth be told, albeit over shorter durations.

Are you on a wind up? I can see that rowing is painful, but races are extremely short. Cycling has those short intense efforts but also much longer sustained efforts, plus three week long tours! Sorry, but I can't imagine how rowing comes close to cycling in terms of pain (especially when you factor in injuries, saddle sores etc.).

I suppose the key is that rowers (due to their stable seated position in the boat) are able to row themselves closer to their maximum limit in competition than most other sports - it is not uncommon to see rowers collapse in the boat following a race. If a cyclist pushed themselves to that level on a climb their race would be over and as they approached such a limit it would be impossible to remain upright and straight.

I don't doubt that cyclists push themselves to the same point in training - you see them with matresses laid out on each side of their static bikes for when they collapse - but rowers sometimes end up going just as hard under race conditions.

I did a couple of stage races a few years ago with an Olympic rower and, as well as strength, he had such a pain tolerance that he made the front group when the peloton split on every stage. He readily admitted he had little tactical skill, just physical power and will-power.