Performance dropping?

bahzob

willhub wrote:

As I've said I've tried making a training plan before, but always getting different oppinions, I get confused and just give up then. I'm going to do some job hunting then go for a 25 mile blast.

Which is exactly how you have ended up in this position.

So, again I recommend putting together a plan and trying to follow it. It's not difficult. If you use the book I suggested 95% of the work is already done for you.

Apart from making you a better cyclist it may also help in a wider context.

- When life isn't treating you too well it's good to have something entirely under your control where you can measure and see progress.

- The approach/skills needed to put together and follow a training plan apply to lots of others areas of life as well, including getting a job and doing it well once you have it.

Tom Dean

willhub wrote:

Tonight I'm going to do a 12-15 mile threshold training session on a computrainer, because I can't ride on the road as my cleat is broken so buggered there. I'm just going to aim for 320W on this particular computrainer and hold it throughout, I always sprint at the end.

It has been explained to you why club 10s might not be great training - did you understand the reasoning? How is 12 miles at threshold any better?

amaferanga

Wasn't there a thread like this from willhub last year, and the year before that,....

willhub

Tom Dean wrote:

willhub wrote:

Tonight I'm going to do a 12-15 mile threshold training session on a computrainer, because I can't ride on the road as my cleat is broken so buggered there. I'm just going to aim for 320W on this particular computrainer and hold it throughout, I always sprint at the end.

It has been explained to you why club 10s might not be great training - did you understand the reasoning? How is 12 miles at threshold any better?

I did 15 miles. Maybe it's not any better, but training plans are no good because of contradicting opinions making them too confusing unless they've being made up by someone with plenty of experience.

bahzob wrote:

willhub wrote:

As I've said I've tried making a training plan before, but always getting different oppinions, I get confused and just give up then. I'm going to do some job hunting then go for a 25 mile blast.

- The approach/skills needed to put together and follow a training plan apply to lots of others areas of life as well, including getting a job and doing it well once you have it.

No they don't, putting together a training plan to enable me to improve my performance in racing and time trials does not have anything to do with an IT job, it may have similar aspects such as organisation, discipline and if using a computer competent in using certain software but that's about it.

Tom Dean

Well, 15 miles at threshold is better than 15 miles steady, which seems to be the backbone of your current schedule :roll:
So you want a training plan but you can't put one together yourself. Reading a book is out since reading a few forum posts has proved too difficult. Maybe you could approach a coach for a plan?

willhub

I'm keep doing the Monday TT's, incorporate 5min intervals, and maybe 2*20 into the week as well as maybe 20-40 miles hard "threshold"? and maybe a hard group training ride on a Saturday (if not time trialing) for some fun and a bit of training.

Tom Dean

Rather than just looking at your times, looking at how you compare to other riders each week should give you a better picture of how you are progressing.

willhub

Tom Dean wrote:

Rather than just looking at your times, looking at how you compare to other riders each week should give you a better picture of how you are progressing.

I do that, and it reveals I went backwards considering I was always between a couple of seconds and 30 seconds quicker than one guy that end up a minute slower than him.

Alex_Simmons/RST

willhub wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

Rather than just looking at your times, looking at how you compare to other riders each week should give you a better picture of how you are progressing.

I do that, and it reveals I went backwards considering I was always between a couple of seconds and 30 seconds quicker than one guy that end up a minute slower than him.

Comparing against one other individual is just introducing one more uncontrolled variable to the mix.

Tom Dean

Of course, but if you're racing against the same people every week and look at the gaps to all of them, it gives you a better idea.

SBezza

Tom Dean wrote:

Of course, but if you're racing against the same people every week and look at the gaps to all of them, it gives you a better idea.

Not always, no doubt alot of riders doing club 10's will be doing them in addition to Open 10's at the weekend, and as such might have very variable performances depending on what sort of training they are doing, how tired and stressed they are etc. I do club 10's as an interval sessions, so my times can be all over the place, depending on my aims for that session, so someone trying to gauge their performance against me would get very mixed messages.

Will needs to try different sessions for a decent period of time and then see what works for him, but he needs to plan in advance, and then try and stick to it as much as possible. Putting together a plan isn't easy, that is why some of us have coaches, monitoring progress is even harder unless you have real data to measure and track.

Tom Dean

Obviously everyone's results are variable. Some go fast, some slow. The more you compare against, the more it evens out. You can see how your competitors compare with each other to get an idea who has done a good or bad ride. The point is the conditions affect everyone the same so you get a better picture of your performances than if you just look at your times from week to week.

All I meant was it might be a better way of judging results, for non power meter users.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Tom Dean wrote:

The point is the conditions affect everyone the same.

Not quite. e.g. different wind conditions can easily change the spread of times between competitors.

Tom Dean

I give up.

Sometimes the wind changes drastically in the few minutes between riders on a club 10. I notice when it does so I factor it in

I like trying to beat my mates, I think that's an ok goal in itself.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Tom Dean wrote:

I give up.

Sometimes the wind changes drastically in the few minutes between riders on a club 10. I notice when it does so I factor it in

I like trying to beat my mates, I think that's an ok goal in itself.

Nothing wrong with your goal.

I think you miss my point. The time differences between riders will be different on days with different conditions, even if their individual form is the same and on each given day the conditions are the same through the event. IOW, you can still get a misleading indicator of form when looking at other rider's relative performances.

willhub

Here are my results week by week up to the week I did a PB:

http://www.manchesterwheelers.co.uk/For ... sults.aspx

http://www.stockport-clarion.org.uk/Tim ... 012-tt.htm 23:53, then missed a week as I took it easy, 23:36 then 23:30

I did a hard 30 miles today with some pretty damned hard efforts in it felt, I was not focusing on speed since I don't have a speedo on my bike, but I managed a decent pace http://app.strava.com/rides/14060925

My legs don't even feel wrecked though, so perhaps that's a sign I'm on the up again, the past 2 weeks my cadence has gone up definitely, I was doing some hard efforts and looked down and was surprised to see my legs spinning quite fast around 90-100rpm, the only thing I notice from spinning now is speed/power has took a slightly dent and my lungs appear to ache after a hard session.

willhub

Here are my results week by week up to the week I did a PB:

http://www.manchesterwheelers.co.uk/For ... sults.aspx

http://www.stockport-clarion.org.uk/Tim ... 012-tt.htm 23:53, then missed a week as I took it easy, 23:36 then 23:30

I did a hard 30 miles today with some pretty damned hard efforts in it felt, I was not focusing on speed since I don't have a speedo on my bike, but I managed a decent pace http://app.strava.com/rides/14060925

My legs don't even feel wrecked though, so perhaps that's a sign I'm on the up again, the past 2 weeks my cadence has gone up definitely, I was doing some hard efforts and looked down and was surprised to see my legs spinning quite fast around 90-100rpm, the only thing I notice from spinning now is speed/power has took a slightly dent and my lungs appear to ache after a hard session.


So from the start of training and the first 10 mile, it was on the 7th week I did a 22:35.

dw300

How much do you weigh?

willhub

Also last night I did a 23:24, and I forgot to wear my aero overshoes which apparently make 5-10 seconds difference?

My recovery is also vastly improved over the past week, to the point I did a training ride tonight and in total I've done 82 miles today not all blasting it though, my legs only felt slightly tired from yesterday, not sure if it's because I've started upping the cadence.