Turbo training in asbestos garage?

red_dread

Here's an odd one. I'm worrying about using my detached garage as a gym/bike workshop because the panelling is made of asbestos. Has anyone else had this concern?

If I'm hammering the turbo for hours every week and breathing hard, am I at risk, or is the building safe as long as the walls and roof are not disturbed?

Do I need to pay thousands to get the garage disposed of, or can I just line it and insulate away the asbestos panelling?

Any advice welcomed!

dw300

You need to befriend an asbestos surveyor who would appreciate a case of wine.

A quick Google search priced a survey from £150.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestosis

Herbsman

It's not worth the risk. Train elsewhere.

smidsy

Asbestos is only a problem if particles become airbourn.

If the panels of your garage are not damaged there is virtually no chance of exposure.

Typically the asbestos panels of a garage are what is known as a matrix product i.e the asbestos fibres are held together by another substance, probably cement (the product is therefor known as asbetsos cement).

If the panels are damaged or showing signs of deterioration then there could be a small chance of breathing in fibres but given that you are in a well ventilated space and not generally kicking up dust the risk is still very small.

Asbestos products in good condition pose no risk to human health if left undisturbed.

willhub

red_dread wrote:

Here's an odd one. I'm worrying about using my detached garage as a gym/bike workshop because the panelling is made of asbestos. Has anyone else had this concern?

If I'm hammering the turbo for hours every week and breathing hard, am I at risk, or is the building safe as long as the walls and roof are not disturbed?

Do I need to pay thousands to get the garage disposed of, or can I just line it and insulate away the asbestos panelling?

Any advice welcomed!

Is this the place on Twemlow Ln in Cheshire in the MoD building?

If it is, then I'd probably keep out, a single bit of that stuff in you and it could cause big problems later in life.

cougie

Plenty of houses have asbestos in them. As someone says - its only a problem if you breathe in the fibres. If the boards aren't being broken up as you turbo - you won't have a problem.

My garage is the same.

Tom Butcher

I suspect my garage may be the same too - 1950s built flat roofed garage with some kind of boards lining the ceiling there has to be a fair chance. I train in there - must admit it's crossed my mind to get a sample of the stuff tested though - but I probably wont.

Monty Dog

There are three types of asbestos - blue, brown and white. It is the blue stuff that is the cause of most asbestos-related disease. The white stuff commonly used for garage roofs and cladding is the most common and is far more benign: I know it's the mail but it's fairy accurate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... ngers.html

A number of years ago I was involved in advising the industry on suitable respiratory protection...as long as you don't powder and snort the stuff, you'll be OK.

cyco2

I would have thought a coat of paint would help seal any possibility of any fibre detaching or you could try tenting it with polythene sheet.

smidsy

If you are really worried about it the industry best practice for sealing asbestos is with a pva solution which they spray onto the surface (so as not to agitate it in any way).

But I repeat mine and others earlier advice - if it is not damaged and there is no debris you are at no risk.

dylanfernley

don't take the chance--- why not go out on the road--- much less risky, i work in the building industry, the stuff is now at long last being treated for what it is-- a deadly substance with a long lead to a painful death, blue white or brown are timescales in reality, there are thousands of workers and their spouses who would have wished never to have come into contact with asbestos-- it was outlawed in 1984 in the uk, yet it continues to cause multi million pound problems, sure there is now a huge clean up industry doing very nicely thank you, but the sad truth is all this was known many many years ago........... like fags, sugar , processed foods......blah blah......

smidsy

dylanfernley wrote:

don't take the chance the stuff is now at long last being treated for what it is-- a deadly substance with a long lead to a painful death

This type of scare mongering is not helpful. You are correct in much of what you say but it is out of context.

All types of Asbestos are harmful FACT....BUT

....there is absolutely no risk providing the material is undamaged and in tact. The asbestos cement products commonly used in garages of the type descibed by the OP have the asbestos fibres bonded with cement and present no danger unless you start smashing it with a hammer or sanding it down to paint it or drilling it to fix shelving up etc etc. Basically any percusive tools or abrasive process will generate dust and that is not good with Asbestos.

Historically asbestos is in 100,000's of building (an many other) products and many of them you will not even consider e.g. toilet seats (the old black ones in council houses) and Artex.

I work in the Asbestos Industry if that helps anyone have piece of mind with the advice I am giving.

dylanfernley

If you work in the 'industry' , you will know that all types of asbestos and related products are treated with deadly seriousness these days, since the fibres are not visible to naked eye and one fibre is enough to trigger ill health its a bit disingeneous to say i'm scaremongering. We are not allowed to disturb artex, all old sinks must be bagged for special disposal, so a garage built of asbestos paneling has potential to be a hazard ?

If the op intents to spend many hours in there working hard , can you say its not a health risk? by its nature its old, and therefore historically lots could have happened in there--- as a pro working in the industry you should be urging him to get it surveyed by a specialist, which is what all responsible local authorities do with their property once this issue has been flagged up !

cougie

One fibre ???

Everything has got risk - but i think the risks of doing flat out turbo sessions in an asbestos clad garage - with intact panels is a lot less than trying it out on the open roads ! Especially for me as I end up closing my eyes.

smidsy

If you work in the 'industry' , you will know that all types of asbestos and related products are treated with deadly seriousness these days, I have not disputed this

since the fibres are not visible to naked eye and one fibre is enough to trigger ill health its a bit disingeneous to say i'm scaremongering. It is like smoking. I fibre may pose a problem for one person in a million (but unlikely) and others could be exposed to hundreds and never suffer.

We are not allowed to disturb artex, all old sinks must be bagged for special disposal, so a garage built of asbestos paneling has potential to be a hazard ? Of course it has the potential but it is not automatically a problem as I have stated "if there is no damage and it is in tact with no debris then there is no risk".

If the op intents to spend many hours in there working hard , can you say its not a health risk? Refer to above statement regarding damage.

as a pro working in the industry you should be urging him to get it surveyed by a specialist - Why? surveys are to discover where asbestos is and what type it is so it does not get accidentally disturbed/can be managed accordingly. We know where it is and what it is so a survey is irrelevant.

dylanfernley

Please do not say its like smoking--- the fibres from asbestos do not get absorbed, they collect in your lungs, i think the op needs to look at some industry websites, legislation has been laid down as a result of long campaigns, as i said before the blokes garage needs a look, i do not think that is a bad thing considering the risks/hazards involved.

Life is full of risk and rewards, but you must agree you do your best to reduce the former to increase the latter !

mamba80

Get it looked at, DylanFernley is correct, you need piece of mind.
Though it is also correct that the risks are small......but a £150 is nothing these days, a couple of tires, a chain and few inner tubes - basically what a few 1000s miles will cost you in a year.

http://www.shponline.co.uk/news-content ... ays-expert

smidsy

By all means pay out for a survey if you like but all that will tell you is what you already know - that the garage has asbestos containing materials in it..

IF THE PANELS ARE NOT DAMAGED AND THERE IS NO DEBRIS YOU ARE NOT AT RISK.

If you leave them undisturbed and they do not degenerate due to weather etc. there is no need to do anything.

it is exactly like smoking as both things have the potential to cause cancer when inhaled but exposure is not a guarentee that you will develop any medical conditions.

I appreciate that the A word is surrounded in myth and misunderstanding but it is really not a dark art.

neeb

I'm no expert, but as an occasionally neurotic hypochondriac I've read up on this stuff once or twice and what smidsy says is true.

dylanfernley wrote:

one fibre is enough to trigger ill health

Everyone has thousands of asbestos fibres in their lungs, even without exposure to man-made asbestos products it is naturally present in the air in low quantities because it is a naturally occurring mineral. To have a significantly increased risk of disease you need to be exposed to moderate amounts on multiple occasions over a long time period (e.g. in the workplace) or alternatively really large amounts on a small number of occasions. If the asbestos in the garage was falling apart the former could be a risk if you were training there regularly over a long time period, but if it is fully intact and undamaged the number of fibers you would be exposed to is completely insignificant and probably no more than what you would get from walking around the street.

dylanfernley

you are being a bit simplistic with that analysis of risk , why do you think there is a whole heap of legislation about even low level risk-- floortiles, artex, etc -- never mind the high concentration products, do you think its to avoid litigation ?

Or has the penny dropped regarding health risks, especially preventable ones, asbestos does occur naturally as its a mineral, but not all over the planet.

where in the uk do you find asbestos lying naturally ???


Why do you think there is a Zero tolerance policy towards this stuff now ????

Sure its present in so many buildings it has to be managed-- hence this new branch of specialists(asbestos industry)-- the original poster wanted to know if it was safe to use his garage for turbo training, unless any of us have been to his garage can you confidently say one way or another---??

Personally don't like turbo trainers, since i'm not a pro-racer don't need to use them, much better to get out on the road --dress for the weather,or miss a session.

smidsy

Dylan - I assume your posts were with best intentions but you have only served to confuse and alarm.

I will not further the debate as I feel my advice is clear. I do this for a living.

Anyone who has a genuine concern or requires further asbestos advice can pm me.

dylanfernley

Smidsy-- fair enough, was not intending to scare or alarm,perhaps a pm is the best route, ---- we get lots of asbestos info at work and if we do not abide by the guidelines we would face instant dismissal, that is not the case everywhere but increasingly so as the penalties become more severe for transgression.

woody1545

+1 Paint it

OneForTheRoad

smidsy wrote:

By all means pay out for a survey if you like but all that will tell you is what you already know - that the garage has asbestos containing materials in it..

IF THE PANELS ARE NOT DAMAGED AND THERE IS NO DEBRIS YOU ARE NOT AT RISK.

If you leave them undisturbed and they do not degenerate due to weather etc. there is no need to do anything.

it is exactly like smoking as both things have the potential to cause cancer when inhaled but exposure is not a guarentee that you will develop any medical conditions.

I appreciate that the A word is surrounded in myth and misunderstanding but it is really not a dark art.

+1

This guy is talking a lot of sense. Guidence all backs up this opinion while people are right to treat it carefully far more risk occurs when undamaged materials are ripped out.

I work in an organisation that deals with this type of thing if that adds to the weight of arguement.

StillGoing

smidsy wrote:

Asbestos is only a problem if particles become airbourn.

If the panels of your garage are not damaged there is virtually no chance of exposure.

Typically the asbestos panels of a garage are what is known as a matrix product i.e the asbestos fibres are held together by another substance, probably cement (the product is therefor known as asbetsos cement).

If the panels are damaged or showing signs of deterioration then there could be a small chance of breathing in fibres but given that you are in a well ventilated space and not generally kicking up dust the risk is still very small.

Asbestos products in good condition pose no risk to human health if left undisturbed.

Bang on. We used to have a shed and a garage lined with Brown and White Asbestos. I spoke to an expert like yourself when we decided to knock them all down to build an extension on the house. Blue Asbestos was the naughty stuff but the others were fine was their advice. They just said to wet everything with a hose as I demolished and wear a mask and disposable coveralls, but emhpasised that this was just using sensible caution and wasn't really necessary.

dylanfernley

Smidsy---- think you need to have a word with the poster above

---

that sounds illegal to me ?

StillGoing

No it isn't illegal. H&S only comes into effect in the workplace not in the home. If i'd called in a builder to demolish the buildings then they would have to follow the full guidance with surveys etc costing me an arm and a leg. I merely have to follow the advice given and dispose of the substance correctly which I did.

I have to agree with the expert on here in that you are appearing paranoid about Asbestos and any contact with it.

dylanfernley

If you have paid for advice of a so called expert --and he said '' that blue is naughty and the other stuff is fine '' then you have been conned, big style-- smidsy will fill you in on the rest, me i'm only a joiner who works in the industry but nevertheless has training and awareness of hazards pertaining to my occupation, these are industry wide these days-- your example could be used in a training film in the dangers of ignorance .....

StillGoing

dylanfernley wrote:

If you have paid for advice of a so called expert --and he said '' that blue is naughty and the other stuff is fine '' then you have been conned, big style-- smidsy will fill you in on the rest, me i'm only a joiner who works in the industry but nevertheless has training and awareness of hazards pertaining to my occupation, these are industry wide these days-- your example could be used in a training film in the dangers of ignorance .....

Put this in perspective; no asbestos is nice and that is not what is being said. Blue is the worst and by comparison brown and white are nowhere near as bad. As long as you don't breathe in asbestos dust you are fine. If you listened during your course you'd realise that. I have family who are plumbers and industrial heating engineers by trade and who come into contact with the stuff almost daily when having to work in old industrial units where they wrap the pipes in asbestos. Now that is nasty stuff, but even so, taking the necessary precautions of not breathing in the dust when they remove it and disposing of coveralls afterwards ensures they are safe. Believe me, I lost a relative to lung damage from having to wash overalls covered in asbestos dust so we know very well what is safe and what is scaremongering BS.

t.m.h.n.e.t

A spade is a spade ladies.

I too am asbestos "aware" through work and to be honest, I'd rather not be breathing in any of it, colour irrelevant.

StillGoing

That's exactly the point he/she is missing. Blue get the specialists in to remove it just to be really safe, white or brown, don the face mask, goggles, coveralls with hood and gloves, wet everything keeping it wet as you dismantle it. Double wrap it and the clothing in the asbestos kits you get from the merchants, double tape the seams, take it to tip, declare it as asbestos and they quite happily take it. There are no laws stating you have to have anyone in to remove asbestos if it is your property and you're not going to be creating a hazard for anyone else i.e. scattering asbestos dust over next doors car. Do it commercially and you have to have surveys etc for H&S legislation.