Car advice please...

msmancunia

Bit of advice needed from the auto-anoraks here if you've got any suggestions?

Got rid of my car when I was in London as I just didn’t need it. Now I’ve moved back up North I’m finding that four wheels would come in handy occasionally. Don’t plan on using it for commuting, but I’m renovating a house and finding that I could do with one for the regular trips to B&Q/garden centre/IKEA etc. I’d also like to tackle a couple of sportives, which are quite hard to get to sometimes without a car if they aren’t local.

Nothing new, nothing flash, just something to pootle around in that’s cheap to run (I know that’s a stupid statement as nothing is these days), and most importantly, can fit a bike on the back or the roof. First thoughts are a Ka or a Fiesta or maybe a Clio, but I haven’t got a clue if these can transport a bike. Not getting it immediately as I’ve a garden landscaper to pay first, but any ideas that I could keep an eye out for?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Think I would look at Ford Focuses and maybe VW Golfs. Polos worth a look too. Skoda Fabian Hatch is you're not old enough to know Skoda jokes.

All of these should have rear seats that fold down, and if so you can fit a bike in the easily.

t.m.h.n.e.t

Greg66 wrote:

Think I would look at Ford Focuses and maybe VW Golfs. Polos worth a look too. Skoda Fabian Hatch is you're not old enough to know Skoda jokes.

All of these should have rear seats that fold down, and if so you can fit a bike in the easily.

Seat Ibiza/Leon would also fall into relevance there maybe.Depends on budget and what engine you want.

I can get a bike(probably 2 tbh) in my 2000 5dr Fiesta comfortably with room for the other associated crap, Yeah it's an old shape but I got it for £1200 with 60,000 on the clock (and it's a Ghia with walnut trim! how to be cool eh?)

meanredspider

If you're doing a serious house renovation, something bigger might be useful. A diesel Mondeo estate is cheap, cheap to run and epic load-carrying capability - bike in the back with wheels on capability. If the stuff mentioned above is any good, then you're just as well to shop around and buy whatever is going cheap - none of them are anything special.

tailwindhome

Greg66 wrote:

Think I would look at Ford Focuses and maybe VW Golfs. Polos worth a look too. Skoda Fabian Hatch is you're not old enough to know Skoda jokes.

Watching too much cycling?



I'm driving a diesel Seat Toldeo (newer model) which is basically an Altea with a big ass boot. I think they maybe marketed as an Altea XL now.

The bike will lie flat with the back seats down.

However if I was to change car I'd look for something with a tow bar and get a proper Thule rack. Keeps dirty MTBs out of the car....

t4tomo

meanredspider wrote:

If you're doing a serious house renovation, something bigger might be useful. A diesel Mondeo estate is cheap, cheap to run and epic load-carrying capability - bike in the back with wheels on capability. If the stuff mentioned above is any good, then you're just as well to shop around and buy whatever is going cheap - none of them are anything special.

+1 sounds like you need an estate if you are doing house renovations etc. Mondeo is a solid work horse and good value. Also Skoda Octavia is decent car and great value.

Dunno how old you are but also consider a Volvo - V70 is very good and the older rear wheel drive 700 and 900 series (late ones badged as V90) are bomb proof and go on for years and 250,000+. Can be had for around £500 or less and you can fit pretty much anything you want in the boot. It does look like a box on wheels but looks aren't everything.

If you are only doing occasional short trips, fuel consumption isn't a bit issue so I'd be tempted to go for a petrol rather than diesel.

meanredspider

t4tomo wrote:

If you are only doing occasional short trips, fuel consumption isn't a bit issue so I'd be tempted to go for a petrol rather than diesel.

The only reason I suggest diesel is that they tend to be more robust - less fussy about being maintained and generally less at risk from cam belts etc Emissions is the only risk - keeping injectors clean and MAFs etc

davis

t4tomo wrote:

If you are only doing occasional short trips, fuel consumption isn't a bit issue so I'd be tempted to go for a petrol rather than diesel.

+1. You don't say what mileage you're expecting to do, but I'm becoming disenchanted with modern diesels. Too much technology aimed at reducing short-term emissions results in too much to go wrong in my book. If you're doing fewer than (say) 8000 miles then I'd probably go for petrol. They're pretty fuel-efficient too now, and usually cheaper to fix.

davis

meanredspider wrote:

t4tomo wrote:

If you are only doing occasional short trips, fuel consumption isn't a bit issue so I'd be tempted to go for a petrol rather than diesel.

The only reason I suggest diesel is that they tend to be more robust - less fussy about being maintained and generally less at risk from cam belts etc Emissions is the only risk - keeping injectors clean and MAFs etc

Tee hee. The exact opposite of my experience. :-)

meanredspider

davis wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

t4tomo wrote:

If you are only doing occasional short trips, fuel consumption isn't a bit issue so I'd be tempted to go for a petrol rather than diesel.

The only reason I suggest diesel is that they tend to be more robust - less fussy about being maintained and generally less at risk from cam belts etc Emissions is the only risk - keeping injectors clean and MAFs etc

Tee hee. The exact opposite of my experience. :-)

Yup - it depends a great deal on what age car we are talking about - the modern generation of diesels with both epic torque and great fuel efficiency are very complex. Older diesels really only suffer from MAFs and dirty injectors - and even then they will run ok just be smoky. Petrol engines of that generation suffer from cam belts and Cats - not to mention coil packs (especially VAG cars) and other ignition issues - all of which can be horribly expensive to fix

SimonAH

If you're not planning on loads of miles and want a robust workhorse that's almost free to run (excepting fuel of course) have you considered a series Landrover? Apart from anything else it will take any abuse you care to throw at it, carry and tow anything, and depreciate by exactly nothing. Instant cool too!

team47b

I just sooo wanted to post...


a pink one.


...but thought it a little infelicitous

disclaimer: not supposed to cause offense just going for the laugh by playing up to the stereotype, they were all thinking it anyway!

msmancunia

Haha - I'm soooo not a pink girl. The reason being, pink is a bit like red, and I'm a MCFC fan, so a pink or red car is never going to happen! Thanks for all the advice - forgot to mention that I live on a narrow lane (with lots of passing tractors!) and an equally narrow drive, so I'll be looking for something pretty small. So far, a City blue VW Polo has got me googling though...

mrc1

Mondeo estate is a good shout if you need something with lotsssss of load space that isn't going to break the bank. Can handle major miles as well. I'd personally go diesel as it suits the car (power low in the rev range so no need to rag it) but horses for courses.

Anything smaller and I'd go with a fiesta petrol as its cheapy cheap cheap. Pretty bomb proof and plenty of space with the seats down. I put thousands and thousands of miles on an R reg 1.25 without any problems until I got rid of it.

As a random aside that is probably budget busting:

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/2012-dacia-duster-review/263357

We have one out in France at the moment and its great - properly cheapo inside and bargain basement in general but drives well and has loads of room.

clarkey cat

we have a Skoda Fabia estate and love it.

meanredspider

Another left field suggestion then if it's something small you want - Merc A-Class. Massive internal volume (similar to the Mondeo) and yet will be shorter than the Polo. Must be something out there to match your budget.

Jay dubbleU

msmancunia wrote:

Haha - I'm soooo not a pink girl. The reason being, pink is a bit like red, and I'm a MCFC fan, so a pink or red car is never going to happen! Thanks for all the advice - forgot to mention that I live on a narrow lane (with lots of passing tractors!) and an equally narrow drive, so I'll be looking for something pretty small. So far, a City blue VW Polo has got me googling though...

i have a Polo 1.2 for the last 4 years - plenty of room inside - I normally carry the MTB on a rear carrier but we have had two folding bikes, a family sized tent, camping chairs, cooking gear etc on a few occasions. I get about 600 miles to a tank.

PS Its a respectable MCFC blue

walkingbootweather

Depends a bit on your budget. I'm assuming you are doing no more than 8000 miles pa and wanting to spend no more than £3k. If you want space I'd go for a petrol ex-rep mobile. Maybe a Mondeo, Passat, Madza 6, Avensis, Octavia. If you want something a bit smaller then Fords tend to be fun and easy to fix, Skoda, Hyundai and Kia are popular amongst the sensible classes, Older Japanese cars tend to be less fragile than many European models of a similar vintage.

Where are you intending to buy? You will get more for your cash at an auction than a dealer. If you know a bit about cars or can take along a friend who does then a private sale through autotrader or ebay may be the way to go.

Happy Hunting

Jehannum

Hi,

I'd go for something very common, medium sized, like a Focus - there'll be loads to choose from, and tyres and parts will be easy to find. If you're going to be doing less than about 12,000 miles a year, stick with a petrol engine - it'll be cheaper to run and maintain, despite the lower mpg. If you think you'll be keeping it for a few years, consider Mazda and Toyota - the reliability is worth it.

Just my 2c...

TheEnglishman

Off on a tangent - how often are you needing a car? How about hiring one for the day? Or a van if you need a pile of stuff from IKEA or are off on a big bike day/weekend out. You'll get a bike in the back of most cars once the rear seats are folded, assuming there's just one or 2 of you in the car. Or borrow/buy a roof rack and get/hire a car with bars already on the roof?

Are there any car share schemes in your neck of the woods? I don't think ZipCar made it to Manchester, but another scheme may have?

Big_Paul

Modern Diesels are horrible things, I see folks coming into our shop looking clutches and flywheels for VAG Tdi's, Mondeo TDCi's etc and you are talking serious money. Last good Mondeo was the 1996-2000 1.8TD, ancient engine but tough as old boots. Once the manufacturers went all hi-tech, the rot set in.

The missus has a new 1.2 Fabia, it's a decent car, but the build quality on the older ones was pretty pants.

If you want bulletproof, personally I'd go for a petrol Japanese car, or Korean, the bodywork will fall to bits before the engine will.

greg66_tri_v2.0

It warms my heart to see so many negative comments about modern diesels. I 'ate 'em. People flock to them like sheep, claiming they are saving money on fuel. But not realising that they are being skinned on the purchase price vs a petrol equivalent (unless they are doing close to 20k miles a year).

And petrol and petrol exhaust just smells so much better. Like a fine wine.

First.Aspect

Greg66 wrote:

It warms my heart to see so many negative comments about modern diesels. I 'ate 'em. People flock to them like sheep, claiming they are saving money on fuel. But not realising that they are being skinned on the purchase price vs a petrol equivalent (unless they are doing close to 20k miles a year).

And petrol and petrol exhaust just smells so much better. Like a fine wine.

There was an AA report a couple of weeks ago - or rather a BBC news article about an AA report - and the crossover is something like 10k miles a year. But it probably depends on how long your piece of string is. (Ooh err missus)

Gordon Murray went for petrol when he tried to get to 100 mpg with his city car. He knows stuff.

meanredspider

Modern diesels are awesome - the Merc 250CDI BlueEfficiency (250 petrol in brackets)
204bhp (204bhp)
500Nm torque (310Nm)
56mpg combined in an E Class (1.7T car) (42.8mpg)

The petrol is the more expensive car, 20% more thirsty, and a fraction of the torque.

Diesels certainly went through a bad patch when the chase for power meant fuel economy went through the floor. I certainly wouldn't buy a medium to large car in a petrol

meanredspider

First Aspect wrote:

Gordon Murray went for petrol when he tried to get to 100 mpg with his city car. He knows stuff.

Petrol makes sense in a small (light) car where torque is of little value (you don't get many diesel motorbikes)(or Caterham Sevens)

ETA -I tow a car trailer and my diesel pulls it like it wasn't there

greg66_tri_v2.0

Well... I realise a statisitical sample of one isn't of great value, but I have been looking ar Range Rovers to replace our faithful A8 (there are a lot of high kerbs and deep potholes in South West London, dontcha know).

It's hard to compare like for like, because the diesels are much leggier. But I found a petrol 06 with 31k miles for 19k. And a diesel 07 with 35k miles for 30k. Both similar spec (Vogue SE); admittedly the petrol was a private sale (I bet because the owner was getting screwed on trade in values) and the diesel was a dealer.

£11k buys a lot of fuel. Assume there's a £3k difference in private vs trade, and there is still an £8k premium for a diesel. The petrol does 17mpg and the diesel 25mpg. Say I keep them for four years. So that's £2k per annum I would need to save in fuel a year with the diesel.

Round here diesel seems to be more than regular petrol a litre, and on a par with premium high RON petrol. But assume they are the same, at 1.40 per litre. That's £6.37 a gallon.

I think that puts the break even point around 17000 miles per annum to save £2k per annum on fuel.

Since we do about 6k miles a year tops, we would have to hold the car a long time to recoup the diesel premium.

Obv the big variables are the difference between the petrol and diesel mpgs, the diesel £ premium to buy, and annual mpg. But I do wonder how many diesel buyers actually do the sums and satisfy themselves that for them a diesel will work out cheaper over their period of ownership.

I'll get me anorak*.


*Barbour

Big_Paul

The thing about the diesels, is that it they are fine when newish, but get a decent mileage on them, and they just fall apart, Clutches, Flywheels, DPF's, all give loads of hassle, I've seen plenty of otherwise immaculate diesels that are uneconomical to fix because a the flywheel has gone and taken the clutch or gearbox with it.

Part of the problem is that they are trying to make diesels drive like petrols, the old stuff was dog rough, but it just kept going. My last car was an ancient 106 diesel that still did over 70mpg if you were out of town, apart from regular servicing, the engine was untouched with 155000 miles on it.

When the missus bought her Fabia, although she does 12000 years a year, with free servicing on the 1.2 petrol and the price difference, it worked out a lot cheaper to have the petrol.

CiB

I run a diesel and even with commuting on the bike 2 out of 5 days it still clocks up over 12000 a year, which is yet another break-even figure apparently. I'd be hard pushed to recommend one - the biggest issue for me is the designed obsolescence of the DPF. 80000 miles seems to be the life span after which you're looking at a huge bill for original parts or maybe half that for after-market kit. Even so it ends up being the thick end of a grand. That's a lot of petrol.

In its favour is the biblical torque which makes overtaking a realistic option in places where the i10 ( yeah other end of the scale but ...) wouldn't have a prayer, and also makes cruising at reasonable speeds in 6th a relaxing affair, 80 being about 2000 rpm. Still dunno what to go for when this thing reaches the end of the road for us.

Someone mentioned earlier on getting a Series Land Rover. They're a boat-load of fun and a journey straight back to being 8 years old and being late for school (for some of us anyway) but 14mpg tops and a headache on any journey over 6 miles make them a bad proposition in the real world.

A big Mondeo estate sounds the best bet.

meanredspider

Greg66 wrote:

£11k buys a lot of fuel. Assume there's a £3k difference in private vs trade, and there is still an £8k premium for a diesel. The petrol does 17mpg and the diesel 25mpg. Say I keep them for four years. So that's £2k per annum I would need to save in fuel a year with the diesel.

Round here diesel seems to be more than regular petrol a litre, and on a par with premium high RON petrol. But assume they are the same, at 1.40 per litre. That's £6.37 a gallon.

I think that puts the break even point around 17000 miles per annum to save £2k per annum on fuel.

I think your calculations assume the cars will be worth the same at the point you get rid of them. Unlikely.

Because they're often used for towing, the torque capability of a diesel is pretty fundamental.

Other issues, like dual-mass flywheels, are a pain. That said, I ran a 2001 Merc E-Class diesel and sold it onto a friend. The engine had one leaky injector but that was it in all the time I owned it (from 2003) and until now - over 100,000 miles. My friend is still getting 30 mpg towing his race car.

I agree that diesels aren't perfect but don't get too hung up on it. I get the same fuel economy from my 3litre V6 turbo diesel Merc E-Class as I do my 1.4litre turbo Alfa MiTo petrol.

DrLex

CiB wrote:

Someone mentioned earlier on getting a Series Land Rover. They're a boat-load of fun and a journey straight back to being 8 years old and being late for school (for some of us anyway) but 14mpg tops and a headache on any journey over 6 miles make them a bad proposition in the real world.

Amen, brother! You'd also need to be an inveterate tinkerer with a set of imperial spanners & vat of swarfega. I speak as one with a SII relegated to agri-duties; Discovery 3 for towing & people-moving.

Echo thought on hire/car-club suggestions; fixed annual costs with only a little organisational inconvenience of booking.

mudcow007

Ford Ka is cheap to run/ insure an fix if it ever goes wrong - they use fiesta duratec engines which are known to be basically indestructible

i would avoid anything French in my opinion everyone i have known with a frenchy have either literally fell to bits or suffered from gremlins (like electrical faults)

Golf's are cool car but generally if its cheap there is something wrong with it or its been in a smash

id stick with a boring ford like a Ka, Fiesta or Focus

oh an unless your doing shed loads of miles (over 15k) stick with petrol, more reliable than a modern diesel not as exspensive to fix if they do go boom an not that much difference in mpg