Chris Froome (spoilers)

luckao

Turfle wrote:

Again, I'm really really not saying he's definitely clean, or is above questioning, but his story is plausible enough, in my eyes at least, that I'm happy to go with it until someone produces something suspicious about him other than he's riding really well.

I agree with you. I'll wait for a dodgy pork chop before raising any suspicions.

thamacdaddy

Barloworld got plenty of airtime on ITV cycling as they had a young Geriant Thomas in the same year as Froome and with impressive efforts from Soler who won king of the mountains. At the time they were as close as the GB got to a team as they were british registered with a south african sponsor. Not the best team but to say Froome and barloworld were under the radar seems to me a bit off. He was always a noted climbing domestique but also known for blowing up and losing any gains he had accumulated. He also always had TT form, 2010 he was second in the British TT champs to none other than Brad Wiggins and we all know what he did in last years Vuelta.

And before others say it I think unless wiggins loses over a 3mins then Froome will always be his support here not the main man. His time will come no doubt when wiggins decides to ease off or he secures a contract with another team. We are yet to see if Froome could handle the pressure of being the leader of a team.

rick_chasey

Shows how dull the yellow race is that every discussion ends up with 'how believable is this' rather than racing chat.

Shame.

Hopefully the bigger time gaps will mean riders have less to lose so they'll gamble more with attacks.

Clutching at straws though.

luckao

Not to mention how people reminisce about Barloworld. Woah.

I jest..

thamacdaddy

They wren't great but they weren't "unknown" unless your only knowledge of cycling came from reading BBC sport or the guardian when the tour was on.

luckao

thamacdaddy wrote:

They wren't great but they weren't "unknown" unless your only knowledge of cycling came from reading BBC sport or the guardian when the tour was on.

Incidentally, have you noticed how their coverage has increased in the year that Britain has a serious contender. Lycra sales are going to rocket this summer.

dave_1

Froome should be team leader I guess. He will do Brad on the two mountain tops to come but maybe last TT will see an epic duel?

Yellow Peril

On the start ramp with his helmet on he had a pretty, feminine mouth...is that an inappropriate comment?

rebs

Sky did make a big thing of Froome when he signed always calling him a rough diamond or something like that.

The thing that I foun interesting was how critical people were of sky las year and the Veulta. Because they didnt start riding for Froomer sooner. I really o beleive he was only in such a position thanks to the pacing he was doing for Wiggins. Without that he woul not be climbing as he did. I woul have found it hard to beleive he'll havegot a top 3 without Wigins managing the pace for him to ride. It's his expirence of knowing his limits which does seem to be his issue.

you can see that when his dropped off the pace while riding for Wiggins only for him to bounce back to win the stage etc. Always looks like he is holding back a little when he should be going full gas. If he did that on the stage he won. It would very possible they could have put more seconds into Nibali for example.

ddraver

Luckao wrote:

thamacdaddy wrote:

They wren't great but they weren't "unknown" unless your only knowledge of cycling came from reading BBC sport or the guardian when the tour was on.

Incidentally, have you noticed how their coverage has increased in the year that Britain has a serious contender. Lycra sales are going to rocket this summer.

I know - even Radio 1 have an update every day now!!!!!

Pross

As I've put on the Stage 9 spoiler I think people's opinion of how good the rides by Wiggins and Froome were have been skewed by the fact that Canc isn't on top form having come back from long term injury and having had to 'dig deep into his suitcase of courage' defending his yellow jersey on the final climb in Stage 7. Evans appeared to have an off day although recent results suggest he just isn't as quick in TTs as the Sky riders. If you look at riders like Nibs, TJ etc. then the time differentials are about what you would expect.

Froome's early career seems to have been one of promise that was frustrated by illness. Sky saw something in him and were keen to sign him.

I just really can't see Brailsford being willing to lose all the reputation and respect he has built in his time at British Cycling to run a doping programme to win the Tour. The last thing he would want is all that Olympic success being questioned.

Tom BB

I agree Pross that the results aren't unrealistic-time gaps seem about normal to me (other than how much Wiggo put into Canc, but Canc doesn't seem to have the form in longer TT's this year)

Pross wrote:

I just really can't see Brailsford being willing to lose all the reputation and respect he has built in his time at British Cycling to run a doping programme to win the Tour. The last thing he would want is all that Olympic success being questioned.

I'm not so sure about this though-LA had/has a much bigger reputation and more respect than DB....I'd suggest that he has risked it all doping!! Bending the rules in whatever way goes hand in hand with being at the top level of any sport.

Pross

I think it's different for Brailsford as his Olympic reputation is potentially more of a reflection on his managerial ability than a Tour win for Team Sky would be. For LA winning the Tour was everything which was a shame because I liked him as a young one day rider.

calvjones

Tom BB wrote:

I agree Pross that the results aren't unrealistic-time gaps seem about normal to me (other than how much Wiggo put into Canc, but Canc doesn't seem to have the form in longer TT's this year)

Pross wrote:

I just really can't see Brailsford being willing to lose all the reputation and respect he has built in his time at British Cycling to run a doping programme to win the Tour. The last thing he would want is all that Olympic success being questioned.

I'm not so sure about this though-LA had/has a much bigger reputation and more respect than DB....I'd suggest that he has risked it all doping!! Bending the rules in whatever way goes hand in hand with being at the top level of any sport.

I would think Canc putting 30secs into GT contenders over 40km is about right, especially as he's tried fairly hard in the mountains?

TVG and Chav had fabulous TTs. Wiggo and Froome absolutely amazing.

dave_1

with the day to think back on what we saw yesterday, I have to admit I am still struggling a bit to accept Froome beating cancellara is feasible. Froome will be the best climber in the race I think..and he can beat Fabian Cancellara. The illness stuff seems like what I've heard, we've heard from riders before so they can dissapear. At least Wiggins has been good all year. I don't believe there is team wide doping regimen but still need persuaded about froome

Yellow Peril

Dave_1 wrote:

with the day to think back on what we saw yesterday, I have to admit I am still struggling a bit to accept Froome beating cancellara is feasible. Froome will be the best climber in the race I think..and he can beat Fabian Cancellara. The illness stuff seems like what I've heard, we've heard from riders before so they can dissapear. At least Wiggins has been good all year. I don't believe there is team wide doping regimen but still need persuaded about froome

I don't think Cancellara is that invincible at the moment from a TT perspective. Sure enough if the road surface was bad (P-R) or it was a matter of a sudden classics surge (early stages last week) then he's yer man. Remember Fabu didn't destroy TJVG either. He should have beaten him as well.

graeme_s-2

The problem with yesterday's TT is our usual benchmark for Cancellara is Tony Martin, and he was injured and had a very poor (by his standards) ride. If Martin had beaten Wiggins by 30 seconds then it would just look like Cancellara wasn't up to his usual standards and put in a poor TT.

Turfle

And it's probably worth waiting until Froome actually shows he's the best climber in the race before accepting he is. On Sunday he looked to be struggling to stay within a couple of bikes of Wiggins when VDB put the pressure on. It could just have been a momentary thing, but I'd wait a while yet before accepting it so easily.

cookiemonster

Dave_1 wrote:

with the day to think back on what we saw yesterday, I have to admit I am still struggling a bit to accept Froome beating cancellara is feasible.

He's done it before; how many times does he have to do it before it becomes feasible?

markyboy2005

Isn't one of they elements of Froome and Wiggins putting so much time into Cancellara on the TT the fact that it was reasonably hilly and not pan flat?
When Millar was interviewed he made the point that he did not feel it was a TT for the "specialists".

In my mind there is no doubt that Cancellara is the man to beat on TT's in normal conditions, but when you throw in a decent climb he loses the edge he normally has. Add to that all of the previous comments about early season injury and defending yellow and I think we have a full picture as to why the SKY boys took so much time out of him. I'm not suggesting he can't climb or can only win flat races (he has proven that is not the case), but against the clock I think the Wiggins style of sitting in and pacing up these climbs works to his advantage vs Cancellara's brute force.

With regards Evans, he clearly is not able to TT like he could last year - in the Dauphine Wiggins almost caught him.

I must admit, I want to believe the incredible results of Froome and Wiggins are clean results based on their fairly unique approach and to the particular stage profiles this year. However, I can fully understand the underlying feeling of "we have seen this all before"

Only time will tell, but for me this is about good training, good preparation (not "preparation"), luck in terms of missing competitors and a suitable profile for SKY.

RichN95.

markyboy2005 wrote:

In my mind there is no doubt that Cancellara is the man to beat on TT's in normal conditions, but when you throw in a decent climb he loses the edge he normally has. Add to that all of the previous comments about early season injury and defending yellow and I think we have a full picture as to why the SKY boys took so much time out of him. I'm not suggesting he can't climb or can only win flat races (he has proven that is not the case), but against the clock I think the Wiggins style of sitting in and pacing up these climbs works to his advantage vs Cancellara's brute force.

Cancellara is not the force of two or three years ago though. Wiggins has beaten him in their last five time trials together. Tony Martin was consistently and comfortably beating him last year. He's not the 'man to beat' anymore. Hasn't been for a year and a half.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

markyboy2005 wrote:

In my mind there is no doubt that Cancellara is the man to beat on TT's in normal conditions, but when you throw in a decent climb he loses the edge he normally has. Add to that all of the previous comments about early season injury and defending yellow and I think we have a full picture as to why the SKY boys took so much time out of him. I'm not suggesting he can't climb or can only win flat races (he has proven that is not the case), but against the clock I think the Wiggins style of sitting in and pacing up these climbs works to his advantage vs Cancellara's brute force.

Cancellara is not the force of two or three yeas ago though. Wiggins has beaten him in their last five time trials together. Tony Martin was consistently comfortably beating him last year. He's not the 'man to beat' anymore. Hasn't been for a year and a half.

He's said himself he doesn't really do any specific TT training like he used to anymore.

markyboy2005

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

markyboy2005 wrote:

In my mind there is no doubt that Cancellara is the man to beat on TT's in normal conditions, but when you throw in a decent climb he loses the edge he normally has. Add to that all of the previous comments about early season injury and defending yellow and I think we have a full picture as to why the SKY boys took so much time out of him. I'm not suggesting he can't climb or can only win flat races (he has proven that is not the case), but against the clock I think the Wiggins style of sitting in and pacing up these climbs works to his advantage vs Cancellara's brute force.

Cancellara is not the force of two or three yeas ago though. Wiggins has beaten him in their last five time trials together. Tony Martin was consistently comfortably beating him last year. He's not the 'man to beat' anymore. Hasn't been for a year and a half.

He's said himself he doesn't really do any specific TT training like he used to anymore.

Yip - agree with all of the above.

I guess I am just rallying against all of the sharp intakes of breath that are doing the rounds. I see a lot of commentary that there is no way they (Froome and Wiggins) could be taking that amount of time out of Cancellara and to be honest I don't think it that suspect, based on what I wrote above and what you guys have followed up with.

With regards Martin, he has had rotten bad luck and I think that is the answer there.

Anyway - stage 10 today, lets see what the hills bring.....I for one am enjoying it, even with Arabic commentary!

frenchfighter

So yday he looks to be suffering on the final climb, he starts hanging off the back. He then comes right up to the front on that small group with ridiculous ease. He then rides at the front dragging them along. He then attacks?! - very odd -and drops them with remarkable ease. He then sits up, waits, rides a high tempo, pulling them along, then takes off close to the finish and gaps them.

And while he was doing all this riding on the front he is talking on his radio most of the time (Jalabert commented on this).

Hmmm.

andyp

It was almost Contador-esque, eh FF?

frenchfighter

No way you go from mediocre TT rider and reasonable climber to a crushing TT rider and the best GC climber. In a year. It just doesn't happen.

frenchfighter

andyp wrote:

It was almost Contador-esque, eh FF?

Contador has world class climbing form for over 10 years, in almost every race he enters.

Pross

frenchfighter wrote:

So yday he looks to be suffering on the final climb, he starts hanging off the back. He then comes right up to the front on that small group with ridiculous ease. He then rides at the front dragging them along. He then attacks?! - very odd -and drops them with remarkable ease. He then sits up, waits, rides a high tempo, pulling them along, then takes off close to the finish and gaps them. Other than a 22 year old newcomer

And while he was doing all this riding on the front he is talking on his radio most of the time (Jalabert commented on this).

Hmmm.

You forgot the bit in bold!

frenchfighter

"I tried to convince him to come to our team but he wanted to stay at Sky," Garmin's Jonathan Vaughters told Cyclingnews.

Froome eventually settled for Sky, on a multiple year contract and increased salary.

"We started to talk to him five or six days into the Vuelta, before he'd done anything incredible but as his performance got better and better he just became out of reach financially. It just became unrealistic for me to continue down that path.

"I offered him a contract but as soon as he started doing well at the Vuelta there were tonnes of teams. It was just a case of a being a day late and a dollar short."

See how value shoots up when a good performance is in. I'm sure many riders feel it is worth doping for one race a year to bag that dosh.

Daz555

frenchfighter wrote:

No way you go from mediocre TT rider and reasonable climber to a crushing TT rider and the best GC climber. In a year. It just doesn't happen.

As yet in this years tour, there is no evidence that he is the best GC climber. All he has shown is that he can punch hard and gap people for a while. Cracking TT though - he has proven that.