Tackling those climbs

smidsy

Thanks again bahzob, even if the specifics are not exactly right for me it has at least given me a strategy to work around, which is what I have struggled to develop.

In reality I have been very sporadic in my attempts to improve and have used my 'confusion of approach' as an excuse to avoid really targeting hills.

So with my head full of new amuniton I will endeavour to seek out some hills and try it out.

jgsi

Talking of the Zoncolan... well dug this out, still on YouTube to download
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Caa16rDarLc

OP... notice how these guys don't exactly spin out on a 34/29 to get to the top
I climbed off the turbo after 20 minutes of seemingly not seeing the % go below 19

It's all down to my pathetic VAM

Tom Dean

JGSI maybe you forgot to keep breathing deeply?

bahzob

Tom Dean wrote:

JGSI maybe you forgot to keep breathing deeply?

Funnily enough this is a pretty common fail on long climbs. You should be breathing loud enough with your gob wide open so everyone within a five mile zone can hear you, not grinding through clenched teeth. You can use your breathing to help set a steady cadence to keep in a good steady zone.

Re Zoncolan also worth checking out for contrast how the pros ride it when they are pushing it. Their high cadence and smooth pedaling style makes it look easy. It isn't but its a lot less hard that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Xf9igX5ZE


Also on Zoncolan just to show there is always someone madder. When I was descending down the other side (which is just as steep) I passed a guy coming up the other way.

He was skiing.

Cross country style on special skis with rollers.

He was over halfway up, going well and I guess he made it to the top. What I never figured out was once he got there how he got down again.

bahzob

smidsy wrote:

Thanks again bahzob, even if the specifics are not exactly right for me it has at least given me a strategy to work around, which is what I have struggled to develop.

In reality I have been very sporadic in my attempts to improve and have used my 'confusion of approach' as an excuse to avoid really targeting hills.

So with my head full of new amuniton I will endeavour to seek out some hills and try it out.

Things can get confusing. One last piece of general training advice is treat it the same way as you eat an elephant, one small bite at a time. Try using each ride to focus on one small specific aspect and improve that, not everything at once.

Good luck.

rdt

Great set of posts there, bahzob.

meanredspider

rdt wrote:

Great set of posts there, bahzob.

Yup - just when I was thinking this forum was frequented only by humourless, bitter & twisted individuals, somebody who actually has something helpful to say pops up to prove that it's frequented MOSTLY by humourless, bitter & twisted individuals and the odd helpful & knowledgeable person. Well done, bahzob 8)

GeorgeShaw

Ideally you want to keep intensity as steady as possible. However there may be time when you need to up effort quickly, say due to a change in pitch or jump to a wheel ahead. You can do this by standing up and sprinting quickly for a few revs. However in a climb like this you will only be able to do this a limited number of times, maybe only once. Exactly how many will depend on you. One often used analogy is think of these efforts as "matches" that you can burn at some point. Its good to have an idea of how many "matches" you have and a plan of when to use them.("burn a match")

Very wise words. Bear in mind that this refers to longer climbs. A short climb out of the saddle is entirely different from getting out of the saddle on a long climb. The former (aka "grunting" a climb) is anaerobic - the latter aerobic. From your description, you have the anaerobic power (20 second efforts) but not the aerobic power. The answer is, of course, more training - on longer hills.

What bazhob is referring to above is pretty much what the pros call the red zone, and you can see the effects in the Tour. You can go into the red zone for a while, but you can't sustain it. If you do it too many times, then you blow. Training for long hills is also about finding where your red line is. Then you ride just below it.

bahzob

Thanks for the feedback.

Regards the "red zone" it is fascinating to watch the pros in the tour. It's often not obvious how close to the limit they are but then suddenly they pop and look very human even if they are the reigning champion . For that reason I am still amazed by Chris Froome's climb up Le Toissuire. At one stage it looked as if he had (understandably given how hard he had been working) popped and he dropped back leaving Bradley alone. Then next time we see the yellow group there he is at the front again, not only that he puts in a kick that leaves everyone else standing. Real exciting talent and it's going to be great to watch him over the coming years.

dw300

bahzob wrote:

Thanks for the feedback.

Regards the "red zone" it is fascinating to watch the pros in the tour. It's often not obvious how close to the limit they are but then suddenly they pop and look very human even if they are the reigning champion . For that reason I am still amazed by Chris Froome's climb up Le Toissuire. At one stage it looked as if he had (understandably given how hard he had been working) popped and he dropped back leaving Bradley alone. Then next time we see the yellow group there he is at the front again, not only that he puts in a kick that leaves everyone else standing. Real exciting talent and it's going to be great to watch him over the coming years.

Froome has been extremely impressive. Imagaine how fast he'd go if he kept those elbows in though!

GeorgeShaw

He is such a bag of sticks on the bike ...

ShutUpLegs

So....ability to recover quickly after extended times close to the limit may be useful here

bahzob

It'll be interesting to see how the tour tackles the last climb of the day today.

It's a real belter and one of my favourites. I think it may be the toughest section on the route and for many a year. Its a breeze until you take a turn into a very narrow, wooded lane for the last 3.5 km. Then it goes up at an average of over 12%, worst section is a straight ramp at 18%. It may make even the some of the top riders pop.

http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?Col=Col-de-P%E9gu%E8re&qryMountainID=6316

TKF

Tom Dean wrote:

Climbing is not some special skill. Work on your power output.

Very true. Which is why Chris Hoy is such a beast in the mountains.

Oh, hang on, he's not is he?

Well, this is awkward.

jgsi

bahzob wrote:

It'll be interesting to see how the tour tackles the last climb of the day today.

It's a real belter and one of my favourites. I think it may be the toughest section on the route and for many a year. Its a breeze until you take a turn into a very narrow, wooded lane for the last 3.5 km. Then it goes up at an average of over 12%, worst section is a straight ramp at 18%. It may make even the some of the top riders pop.

http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?Col=Col-de-P%E9gu%E8re&qryMountainID=6316

Well Sagan didnt 'pop'
Doesnt fit the classic climbers schematic, but what he does have in barrel loads is power

Herbsman

TKF wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

Climbing is not some special skill. Work on your power output.

Very true. Which is why Chris Hoy is such a beast in the mountains.

Oh, hang on, he's not is he?

Well, this is awkward.

Chris Hoy is heavy as f*ck. His power to weight ratio is low compared to that of a specialist climber. That's body composition, not special skill.

P_Tucker

Herbsman wrote:

TKF wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

Climbing is not some special skill. Work on your power output.

Very true. Which is why Chris Hoy is such a beast in the mountains.

Oh, hang on, he's not is he?

Well, this is awkward.

Chris Hoy is heavy as f*ck. His power to weight ratio is low compared to that of a specialist climber. That's body composition, not special skill.

No, Chris Hoy's power to weight ratio is better than anyone's in the TdF at the moment. For durations of up to about 15 seconds. However, I'm quite sure that I would beat him over any duration longer than 5 minutes (let alone the pros FFS), and I'm a useless chipper.

In short, WHY is this f*cking retarded thread still going?

jgsi

because me ol' china, some on here are more than happy to contribute to this 'climbing for dummies'.
I now wish I hadnt got involved... oh belay that... possibly if the numpty yesterday in my race had done some research on here, he wouldnt have run out of steam 1/2 way up a pillocky climb and baulked me, made me go into the red zone getting back onto the bunch when he feckin just got off his bike ...

bahzob

JGSI wrote:

because me ol' china, some on here are more than happy to contribute to this 'climbing for dummies'.
I now wish I hadnt got involved... oh belay that... possibly if the numpty yesterday in my race had done some research on here, he wouldnt have run out of steam 1/2 way up a pillocky climb and baulked me, made me go into the red zone getting back onto the bunch when he feckin just got off his bike ...

?? Does beg the question of how come you were behind such a numpty on a climb in the first place ??

jgsi

bahzob wrote:

JGSI wrote:

because me ol' china, some on here are more than happy to contribute to this 'climbing for dummies'.
I now wish I hadnt got involved... oh belay that... possibly if the numpty yesterday in my race had done some research on here, he wouldnt have run out of steam 1/2 way up a pillocky climb and baulked me, made me go into the red zone getting back onto the bunch when he feckin just got off his bike ...

?? Does beg the question of how come you were behind such a numpty on a climb in the first place ??

Because I hadnt 'copped' him before.. it was a big bunch and we were squeezed on a tight road and admittedly I was on the inside (rather have the verge to bail out rather than feckin oncoming badass drivers coming the other way at 50mph+).
Yup I couldnt switch as I had someone on my wheel and someone on my right.. did manage to get past - safely- but lost momentum... sometimes you just make a bad call.
It was a decent vet race so I do assume people can bloody well get up hills, thats all.

rdt

JGSI wrote:

Because I hadnt 'copped' him before.. it was a big bunch and we were squeezed on a tight road and admittedly I was on the inside (rather have the verge to bail out rather than feckin oncoming badass drivers coming the other way at 50mph+).
Yup I couldnt switch as I had someone on my wheel and someone on my right.. did manage to get past - safely- but lost momentum... sometimes you just make a bad call.
It was a decent vet race so I do assume people can bloody well get up hills, thats all.

See the "Race-craft for Dummies" thread for basic tips