Am I a dinosaur?
Comments
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True, nobody spends much time repairing their shifters because, whether they are STIs or downtubes or bar ends, they are dead simple. The electronic ones, by definition are not. That is not to say they are 'crap' but they are more complicated and with this greater degree of complexity comes a greater possibility that over time something will malfunction. And when it does, you will not be able to repair it yourself.
I'd rather have something I understand and can repair myself - in the very minor off-chance that it ever goes wrong.0 -
How is a simple push to make electronic switch, which is replaceable, more complex than a mechanical shifter?0
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Hoopdriver wrote:True, nobody spends much time repairing their shifters because, whether they are STIs or downtubes or bar ends, they are dead simple. The electronic ones, by definition are not. That is not to say they are 'crap' but they are more complicated and with this greater degree of complexity comes a greater possibility that over time something will malfunction. And when it does, you will not be able to repair it yourself.
I'd rather have something I understand and can repair myself - in the very minor off-chance that it ever goes wrong.
how is a shifter with two potted micro switches and two moving parts more complicated than an sti unit ?
my missus has d/a di2 on her tri bike.
total miles this year = 970
total times the battery's needed charging = 1 (when i fitted it)
time taken to check battery level = about 0.5 of one second (press and hold one button)
total malfunctions = zero
total times I've had to adjust the gear trim = once (when i fitted it)
is it awesome = 100%
i can understand that it's not for every one, but for people who clearly have never used it to label it as "crap" is just dumb.0 -
Apparently you have difficulty reading, or at least with comprehension. I distinctly never said it was 'crap'. I said that electronic shifting was more complex than mechanical shifting. It is.big p wrote:Hoopdriver wrote:True, nobody spends much time repairing their shifters because, whether they are STIs or downtubes or bar ends, they are dead simple. The electronic ones, by definition are not. That is not to say they are 'crap' but they are more complicated and with this greater degree of complexity comes a greater possibility that over time something will malfunction. And when it does, you will not be able to repair it yourself.
I'd rather have something I understand and can repair myself - in the very minor off-chance that it ever goes wrong.
how is a shifter with two potted micro switches and two moving parts more complicated than an sti unit ?
my missus has d/a di2 on her tri bike.
total miles this year = 970
total times the battery's needed charging = 1 (when i fitted it)
time taken to check battery level = about 0.5 of one second (press and hold one button)
total malfunctions = zero
total times I've had to adjust the gear trim = once (when i fitted it)
is it awesome = 100%
i can understand that it's not for every one, but for people who clearly have never used it to label it as "crap" is just dumb.0 -
How is my Apple Powerbook, which requires only a push of a button to start up, more complex than a slide rule?BruceG wrote:How is a simple push to make electronic switch, which is replaceable, more complex than a mechanical shifter?0 -
Hoopdriver wrote:
Apparently you have difficulty reading, or at least with comprehension. I distinctly never said it was 'crap'. I said that electronic shifting was more complex than mechanical shifting. It is.big p wrote:Hoopdriver wrote:True, nobody spends much time repairing their shifters because, whether they are STIs or downtubes or bar ends, they are dead simple. The electronic ones, by definition are not. That is not to say they are 'crap' but they are more complicated and with this greater degree of complexity comes a greater possibility that over time something will malfunction. And when it does, you will not be able to repair it yourself.
I'd rather have something I understand and can repair myself - in the very minor off-chance that it ever goes wrong.
how is a shifter with two potted micro switches and two moving parts more complicated than an sti unit ?
my missus has d/a di2 on her tri bike.
total miles this year = 970
total times the battery's needed charging = 1 (when i fitted it)
time taken to check battery level = about 0.5 of one second (press and hold one button)
total malfunctions = zero
total times I've had to adjust the gear trim = once (when i fitted it)
is it awesome = 100%
i can understand that it's not for every one, but for people who clearly have never used it to label it as "crap" is just dumb.
calm down son, did i say it was you that called it crap, you seem to have difficulty reading.0 -
Maybe your difficulty is with the quote button, then. You quoted my post and by inferrence implied, incorrectly, that I regarded electronic shifting as 'crap'. If I shifted as inaccurately as you write, then maybe I too would prefer to have an electronic gadget do it for me.big p wrote:Hoopdriver wrote:
Apparently you have difficulty reading, or at least with comprehension. I distinctly never said it was 'crap'. I said that electronic shifting was more complex than mechanical shifting. It is.big p wrote:Hoopdriver wrote:True, nobody spends much time repairing their shifters because, whether they are STIs or downtubes or bar ends, they are dead simple. The electronic ones, by definition are not. That is not to say they are 'crap' but they are more complicated and with this greater degree of complexity comes a greater possibility that over time something will malfunction. And when it does, you will not be able to repair it yourself.
I'd rather have something I understand and can repair myself - in the very minor off-chance that it ever goes wrong.
how is a shifter with two potted micro switches and two moving parts more complicated than an sti unit ?
my missus has d/a di2 on her tri bike.
total miles this year = 970
total times the battery's needed charging = 1 (when i fitted it)
time taken to check battery level = about 0.5 of one second (press and hold one button)
total malfunctions = zero
total times I've had to adjust the gear trim = once (when i fitted it)
is it awesome = 100%
i can understand that it's not for every one, but for people who clearly have never used it to label it as "crap" is just dumb.
calm down son, did i say it was you that called it crap, you seem to have difficulty reading.
Oh - and by the way i'm not your son.0 -
Guys (or gals) - in all seriousness, I thought STIs were a nightmare to fix. I have a duff Ultegra 9 speed one which I tried to take apart and it ended in disaster - tried all searches and posted here but noone could help.
if one of you guys who are claiming they are dead simple knows how to fix them, then if you could take a look that would be seriously appreciated.
I'm based in London, but if you know how they work, then would you be able to take a look?0 -
Tbh when I talked about being able to fix mech. systems easily I was more on about the sort of thing that would happen on a ride - lose cable, stop screw rattling lose or something - sti's are a simple system but obviously the internal execution is a little more complicated. With the electric stuff I think its more the fear of the unknown for most people.
I'd love a di2 system and I know how good it is - but the price is just too high at the moment (poor student lol). I've promised myself that my next bike will be an all singing all dancing carbon doo dah with electric groupset - might be a few years yet though
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What a complete clown you have now demonstrated yourself to beHoopdriver wrote:
How is my Apple Powerbook, which requires only a push of a button to start up, more complex than a slide rule?BruceG wrote:How is a simple push to make electronic switch, which is replaceable, more complex than a mechanical shifter?0 -
In my case I was talking about campag ergos, I don't have experience of STIs but I hear that they are a bit less user-friendly to service than campag levers and quite a bit more complicated... have a look at these links:coriordan wrote:Guys (or gals) - in all seriousness, I thought STIs were a nightmare to fix. I have a duff Ultegra 9 speed one which I tried to take apart and it ended in disaster - tried all searches and posted here but noone could help.
if one of you guys who are claiming they are dead simple knows how to fix them, then if you could take a look that would be seriously appreciated.
I'm based in London, but if you know how they work, then would you be able to take a look?
http://bicycledesign.net/2010/12/disposable-brifters/
http://www.nitrodyno.com/Ultegra-STI/
I'm based in Finland, otherwise I'd say I'd have a go just for the challenge.. I almost enjoy that kind of thing..
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My point is, dill, that pushing a button to operate something doesn't make it simple.BruceG wrote:
What a complete clown you have now demonstrated yourself to beHoopdriver wrote:
How is my Apple Powerbook, which requires only a push of a button to start up, more complex than a slide rule?BruceG wrote:How is a simple push to make electronic switch, which is replaceable, more complex than a mechanical shifter?0 -
You stated that an electronic shifter is more complex than a manual one, I and others have asked you how that can be as they have less parts, and the features required to make them work are more straight forward.Hoopdriver wrote:
My point is, dill, that pushing a button to operate something doesn't make it simple.BruceG wrote:
What a complete clown you have now demonstrated yourself to beHoopdriver wrote:
How is my Apple Powerbook, which requires only a push of a button to start up, more complex than a slide rule?BruceG wrote:How is a simple push to make electronic switch, which is replaceable, more complex than a mechanical shifter?
I am guessing that you do not own or have any in depth knowledge of the Di2 system, and as with all others that like to put it down, are making your comnents from an ill informed position. I believe in your world that makes you a DILL0 -
I've got bar end shifters on my bikes and you reckon that Di2 shifters are simpler? You are clearly seeing complexity in bar end shifters that I am missing entirely. I would love to see your vision of an exploded diagram of how bar ends work and compare it with the magic you think operates Di2. Perhaps you'll share?BruceG wrote:
You stated that an electronic shifter is more complex than a manual one, I and others have asked you how that can be as they have less parts, and the features required to make them work are more straight forward.Hoopdriver wrote:
My point is, dill, that pushing a button to operate something doesn't make it simple.BruceG wrote:
What a complete clown you have now demonstrated yourself to beHoopdriver wrote:
How is my Apple Powerbook, which requires only a push of a button to start up, more complex than a slide rule?BruceG wrote:How is a simple push to make electronic switch, which is replaceable, more complex than a mechanical shifter?
I am guessing that you do not own or have any in depth knowledge of the Di2 system, and as with all others that like to put it down, are making your comnents from an ill informed position. I believe in your world that makes you a DILL0 -
To have a silly attempt at mediation here 8) , I think that PTM buttons and bar end friction shifters are pretty similar, both very basic systems. But if you compare a Di2/Ui2 shifter to a STI or an Ergo shifter then they are much simpler. Granted the OVERALL system may be less home mechanic friendly (in as much as 99% couldn't re-code the modules, replace a encoder or decoder unit ect...) but a Di2 shifter is a brake leaver with 2 PTM buttons, and an STI has 2 ratchet mechs in it, a torsion spring and at least 15 moving parts that are all small, fiddly and easy to bugger up!
That said these failures of an electric system are very very rear as said by current users. Bad shifts and chain throws are largely caused by poor front mech setup with regards to height and throw - something that mechanical systems suffer from too.
On a maintenance front, mechanical systems do need cables lubed correctly and keeping dry, nice smooth pathing and replacing each year or so. Electric systems need batteries charging every 3 months- 9 months. IMHO the electric system is a bit ahead in my head, due to the automatic trimming of the FD as you shift at the rear - a great feature to my head.
TBH the only reason I have not switched is the price, I don't have the disposable income to spend on it! And if I do have some spare cash I feel my setup could be better improved by better wheels ect. But if I could afford to replace the rear mech as I crashed then I would be making the leap!... But I don't have an available 2nd mortgage to get Super Record EPS!0 -
There you are I have cut and pasted your own words where you state that STI are more complex than electronic shifters
"True, nobody spends much time repairing their shifters because, whether they are STIs or downtubes or bar ends, they are dead simple. The electronic ones, by definition are not"
Get with the programme and make sure you dont mis quote yourself!!!!! shared enough of your incompetence for you?
Just a silly jealous person who has nothing better to do than put down a system he has no knowledge of whatsoever0 -
What a nerd you must be.BruceG wrote:There you are I have cut and pasted your own words where you state that STI are more complex than electronic shifters
"True, nobody spends much time repairing their shifters because, whether they are STIs or downtubes or bar ends, they are dead simple. The electronic ones, by definition are not"
Get with the programme and make sure you dont mis quote yourself!!!!! shared enough of your incompetence for you?
Just a silly jealous person who has nothing better to do than put down a system he has no knowledge of whatsoever
I believe our discuussion, if one could call it that, centred around you inferring that I described Di2 as crap. I understand that you have a short attntion span, but if you could at least try to remember what it was you were babbling about it would be nice.
At any rate I am through wasting my time with you.0 -
Yet again you are mis quoting, I never said anything about you saying it was crap, can you not read, if yes then read back you foolish person, all you are doing is digging yourself into an ever deepening hole.Why not quit you really are making yourself look completely stupid,
Here is some free advice which would be well heeded by you, "When others think you are stupid, dont open your mouth (or type on a forum), and dispel all doubt.0 -
Do you pair realise how ridiculous you come across with this petty tit for tatting on the interweb.
That isn't a personal attack, but come on, it's like bloody children arguing.0 -
Do you realise that the thread had been dormant for over a day before your pathetic Mother Superior style rant which has made you look like all the things you accused others of!houndlegs wrote:Do you pair realise how ridiculous you come across with this petty tit for tatting on the interweb.
That isn't a personal attack, but come on, it's like bloody children arguing.0 -
PricelessBruceG wrote:
Do you realise that the thread had been dormant for over a day before your pathetic Mother Superior style rant which has made you look like all the things you accused others of!houndlegs wrote:Do you pair realise how ridiculous you come across with this petty tit for tatting on the interweb.
That isn't a personal attack, but come on, it's like bloody children arguing.
,cheers fella,that's got me off to work with a grin on my face 0 -
Pleasure0
