Training for 150 mile ride

rob13

Planning a long distance ride, however want a few pointers on training and preparing for it.

First of all, is it just a case of building base endurance up to the point that 150 miles is sustainable or should there be shorter sharper efforts mixed in to keep on working different muscles and providing more strength? My current maximum is 65 miles but I'd like to increase that to over 100 by the end of the year.

Secondly (and most of importantly), how much fluid should you be consuming per hour (It'll probably have to have breaks for toilets & water anyway), and what kind of foods should you be fuelling with before, and during the ride. I've eaten the likes of Soreen, Gums/Jelly Babies, Flapjacks etc but wondered if more substantial food would be required for a long journey. I equally dont want to be suffering from eating the wrong stuff or too much.

Cheers

alex1rob

Ride sportives best way to step up distance as you don't have to worry about route, food, water and boredom.

I found on a bike it's pretty easy to increase distance unlike running. I went from a max of 60 miles to doing 200 miles over 3 days, to doing a 80 mile sportive plus the 15 miles commuting to it. Then finally this year did a century sportive and then the dragon ride. Didn't really train to do any longer, I just did it/

P_Tucker

Rob13 wrote:

Planning a long distance ride, however want a few pointers on training and preparing for it.

First of all, is it just a case of building base endurance up to the point that 150 miles is sustainable or should there be shorter sharper efforts mixed in to keep on working different muscles and providing more strength? My current maximum is 65 miles but I'd like to increase that to over 100 by the end of the year.

Secondly (and most of importantly), how much fluid should you be consuming per hour (It'll probably have to have breaks for toilets & water anyway), and what kind of foods should you be fuelling with before, and during the ride. I've eaten the likes of Soreen, Gums/Jelly Babies, Flapjacks etc but wondered if more substantial food would be required for a long journey. I equally dont want to be suffering from eating the wrong stuff or too much.

Cheers

1. Depends, obv. If you just want to complete it, then ride as slowly as you like and you'd get there tomorrow. If you want to complete it in a specific time, or ride at your 65 mile speed for 150 miles, then the best form of training is reasonably hard aerobic intervals - 2x20minutes for e.g.

2. Depends, obv. Weather will be the biggest factor and will render any attempt to answer beforehand useless. You can't really drink too much unless you go full retard and strap a water butt to a trailer and tow it with you - you'll just stop to p!ss more. Better to err on the side of too much rather than too little. Food - carbs are carbs, your body won't care - the main issue most people have is that sweet food gets sickly after a while. You'll probably thank yourself for having a nice ham sandwich in yer back pocket.

bahzob

If you can ride 65 miles now you can almost certainly ride 100, probably 150. So I would plan to do a 100 mile ride as soon as possible (tomorrow?).

If you are unsure as to whether you can complete it plan a route with a bail out option around 65 miles. If you find you need to bail the reason why you failed will inform you as to what you need to improve, act as a marker for the next time you try and allow us to offer specific help.

Training: The main limiter most people have is the time they have available to train. For most people this is limited. If it is the best advice IMO is spend as much time as possible at higher level intensities than "base" as this yields more improvement per hour spent. The 2x20 min intervals suggested above are one example but there are plenty more and you will most likely want some variety to keep motivated. If you want a complete guide http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Time-crunch ... 1934030473 is excellent. It includes customised training plans to do 100 mile rides.

Fluid - Unless you are riding in extremely hot conditions the simplest advice is just to take the occasional regular sip. If ever become thirsty take big glugs to quench the thirst and from then on sip a bit more often. Your 65 mile rides should give you some feeling for how fluid much you actually need, but I wouldn't take too much.

Food - you won't actually need much food for a 100 mile ride, especially if you are riding just to complete as opposed to max speed. In terms of what to eat the only thing that's important (especially for the sort of ride you are doing) is carbohydrates. There is a simple rule of thumb:
- You can absorb 1g per kg of body weight of carbs per hour (maybe more but 1g/kg will be plenty anyway)
- So work out how many g this is for you and multiply by the number of hours you expect to take and this will give you the max you should be eating (carb grams is on all food labels and can be googled) This will be way more than enough for your ride.
- How exactly you take these grams is a matter of personal taste. No one way works for all.
Just avoid too much fat as it adds bulk and can slow carb absorption and aim to eat little and often.
(fwiw my personal way of keeping fueled for long rides is to have a couple of tri bags that I stuff with jelly babies and I have a routine to eat a couple and take some sips of water every 5km or so. This has kept me going quite happily for several hundreds of miles)

Suggestions

- Sportives as suggested above are one way of getting some company while you ride which makes longer rides a lot more fun (and a lot easier). Other options are to check for local cycle club rides or look for a nearby Audax http://www.aukweb.net/events/

- If you haven't already done so I'd recommend getting a bike fit. Longer rides are a lot easier and more comfortable if you are in the right position.

bigpikle

you need 2 areas IMO:

1. endurance - being able to turn the pedals for that distance. Longer easier rides to build the stamina. 4-5 hrs regularly.

2. threshold power - ability to put out more power without getting so tired - big boost to be able to get up hills, into the wind etc without getting so tired. Lots of sessions like 2x20's, or 1-2 hr tempo sessions to create the power. These will boost endurance as well.

Combination of both of these will see you through nicely!

rob13

Thanks to all who have posted here, some real good advice offered which I'm sure will stand me in good stead. Due to the horrendous weather we're having, i'm back on the trainer. I'll be using this for more burst stuff.

2x20s on a trainer, does it want to be 20 mins warm, 20 mins hard, 20 mins warm? Usually I keep my turbo sessions to about 50 mins max to stave off the boredom. I tried mixing sessions with use of different gears for shortening periods of time as the effort gets harder, and also increasing cadence for shortening periods as the cadence goes up.

P_Tucker

Rob13 wrote:

Thanks to all who have posted here, some real good advice offered which I'm sure will stand me in good stead. Due to the horrendous weather we're having, i'm back on the trainer. I'll be using this for more burst stuff.

2x20s on a trainer, does it want to be 20 mins warm, 20 mins hard, 20 mins warm? Usually I keep my turbo sessions to about 50 mins max to stave off the boredom. I tried mixing sessions with use of different gears for shortening periods of time as the effort gets harder, and also increasing cadence for shortening periods as the cadence goes up.

Standard is 10-15 mins warm up, 20 hard, 5 mins recovery, 20 mins hard, 5-10 mins warm down. Ride at whatever cadence feels comfortable, and if mixing u[ the cadence helps stave off boredom, knock yourself out.

rob13

Thats great. I do have a couple of Sufferfest videos which I find excellent compared to some other videos which I've used previously, but I dont always want to look at the TV, and sometimes just like to stare out of the window with the tunes blasting out. That way, having a structured workout would be beneficial.

Just to answer a couple of points raised, I'm fully aware that some people can do mileage without training much, just simply turning the pedals as slowly as possible and getting there in the end however, I'm looking to do it at a decent pace. I enjoy pushing myself and seeing the gains so will focus on interval and endurance (if you can do that at the same time).

The fluids thing sounded a bit daft, but wasnt too sure on whether if you were thirsty, you were too late and your body would be already in a deficit or whether you should aim to drink a certain amount per hour on say, an average (14-15 deg) day.

Food was pretty key, thanks Bahzob for the carbs rules as I hadnt seen them before. Gives me some kind of indication of what I need to stave off a bonk. I've had it before and it wasn't nice.

Bike fit is something i'm looking at, need to find somewhere in the NE of England to get it done. I did toy with the idea of buying a new bike (I know it wont make me any quicker as its the engine I need to tune, not change the bodywork) and having the LBS look at bike fit for me. I know now that the fit I have established at present, I feel isnt too far from being right, but its the fine tuning which will allow me to have more time on it. Handlebars are something that irritates me after a couple of hours as the weight seems to fall heavy onto my wrists.

alex1rob

I agree with the other about mixing it up then if you want a good pace/time. One day a week allocate as your long ride (for me it's saturday) , never miss the long ride even if it's raining get out at some point during the day for a few hours.

During the week at least 3 more sessions of speed work, so harder efforts over shorter times. Could be max effort over 60 minutes one day. Other day 5 minute intervals and another sprint work with short sharp accelerations with full recovery inbetween.

I personally don't feel you need to be over scientific about it, just keep riding and mixing it up (different routes, hills, sprints, and duration).

Let us know how you get on!

rob13

I agree about the scientific point, as the guys who I know are putting in the miles are going faster and further. I should have no problem with one long ride a week and I'll use the turbo or before and after work for the shorter, sharper stuff.

P_Tucker

alex1rob wrote:

I agree with the other about mixing it up then if you want a good pace/time. One day a week allocate as your long ride (for me it's saturday) , never miss the long ride even if it's raining get out at some point during the day for a few hours.

During the week at least 3 more sessions of speed work, so harder efforts over shorter times. Could be max effort over 60 minutes one day. Other day 5 minute intervals and another sprint work with short sharp accelerations with full recovery inbetween.

I personally don't feel you need to be over scientific about it, just keep riding and mixing it up (different routes, hills, sprints, and duration).

Let us know how you get on!

What, exactly, will 5 minute intervals or sprints do for a 150 mile bike ride? FFS

amaferanga

Threshold intervals and stuff will be useful, but by far the most important thing is to up the distance of your weekly big ride. You should be able to do 100 miles not-that-much slower than you did 65 miles so you should go out and do that asap. If it was me (and I've been in a similar position in the past, but I was looking at doing 175 miles/day for 5 days on the trot) then I'd want to be confident I could do the distance (fairly) comfortably before worrying about threshold power and stuff. Your average power (and therefore speed) will be a relatively modest fraction of your threshold power when you're riding for 8 hours plus so you'd have to increase your threshold power a lot to really make much of a difference over that distance.

I've just noticed that you're planning on doing this next year! Well FWIW when I did my 5x175 mile days I started upping my distance from January, starting at about 100km and gradually increased that. By April/May I was comfortable with 175 miles in a day. I did a few of these before doing the big ride in July. So you've got loads of time - I'd not start worrying about it til the end of the year.

rob13

The original plan was to do it this year during May/June however for one reason or another I started training at the end of September last year, was doing really well up until Christmas and then tailed off around the end of Jan. Feb I just hit a rut and my training stopped. Motorbike season came in March and I was trying too juggle too much. The motorbike is going for now as I really want to give the cycling a go without other distractions.

I'm now planning for next year and getting my base endurance up. I did some training with a bunch of guys last year, sons of which have gone on to join local teams. They were regularly doing distance and plenty hill work and over the sessions this really showed as the pace lifted. My stamina eventually meant I blew up and dropped off

alex1rob

P_Tucker wrote:

alex1rob wrote:

I agree with the other about mixing it up then if you want a good pace/time. One day a week allocate as your long ride (for me it's saturday) , never miss the long ride even if it's raining get out at some point during the day for a few hours.

During the week at least 3 more sessions of speed work, so harder efforts over shorter times. Could be max effort over 60 minutes one day. Other day 5 minute intervals and another sprint work with short sharp accelerations with full recovery inbetween.

I personally don't feel you need to be over scientific about it, just keep riding and mixing it up (different routes, hills, sprints, and duration).

Let us know how you get on!

What, exactly, will 5 minute intervals or sprints do for a 150 mile bike ride? FFS

Seen as you are such an expert (at belittling others) perhaps you should contribute something useful for the OP?

I merely suggested a mixture of speed and endurance work considering the OPs goal was to complete the distance at a decent pace. As has been said a million times before intervals do make you quicker, I'm not quite sure what you have against it but if it's not for you then fair enough. But no need to dismiss it blindly.

Regards
FFS

P_Tucker

Sorry, I forgot this is BR where one mans ignorance is worth the same as anothers knowledge.

Doing "sprint work" will not help one little bit. 5 minute intervals will, but there are easier and better ways to improve ones aerobic system, like 20 minute intervals or 60-90 minute sweetspot rides.

FFS

bahzob

P_Tucker wrote:

Sorry, I forgot this is BR where one mans ignorance is worth the same as anothers knowledge.

Doing "sprint work" will not help one little bit. 5 minute intervals will, but there are easier and better ways to improve ones aerobic system, like 20 minute intervals or 60-90 minute sweetspot rides.

FFS

I've had an absence from BR for a while. I take it from your comments that you havent had a discussion here about in a while about High Intensity Interval Training? This has been shown to help boost VO2 which will ofc help with 100mile rides.

So point of fact your statement doing "sprint work" will not help one little bit is wrong. If the choice is between doing nothing and doing HIIT then HIIT will for sure be better.

Question is whether HIIT will be better than longer duration workouts but as I said the limiter there is often one of time.

bahzob

Re food/drink. I happened to be looking over some training logs and found that a note that for a fairly hard ride of 120miles in 6 hours in warm weather (Dragon sportive for those who know it) I got through
- 2 litres of water
- 2 litres of sports drink
- 250g of jelly babies
- 1 Snickers bar (not the best nutrition but I like them and usually munch one as a reward after the last tough section of a ride.)

Just on thirst. Everyone differs. You can use your training rides to find how much you need, do some rides when you don't drink and find out how far you can go before feeling thirsty, what the effects are when you are and how quickly you recover after drinking. It's worth finding out, drinking too much is a problem just like drinking too little.