Cycling vs motorcycling

Medders

It looks likely that I will be moving house fairly soon - moving further away from work so that my daily bike commute would go from 15 miles each way to about 22 miles.

For me that is feeling a bit too far to do every day - mainly in terms of how long it will take. Thinking of a couple of options to avoid the train - either (1) sticking the bike on the car and driving the first 5-10 miles before parking and riding the rest of the way or (2) buying a fairly basic motorbike, learning how to ride it/taking test and doing 2 or 3 days a week on that and the rest on the proper bike.

Option (1) just seems like a pain in the *rse and option (2) is extremely contrary to the wishes of the wife who thinks motorbikes are lethal (and yet is now reluctantly ok with my cycling).

I know some of you also ride or have ridden motorbikes and I know literally nothing about it so would appreciate your views about these few questions:
- would riding a motorbike into work be any more dangerous than cycling (I cant see why it would be)?
- how long would it roughly take to cover the distance from the M25 (epsom/ashtead way) to the city in rush hour on a commuter type c.500cc bike?
- can motorbike specific gear be worn over work/casual clothes (I want to avoid having to shower on arrival)?
- can a motorbike be ridden in all weathers with the right gear (as per a bicycle) or is it pretty horrible in bad weather?
- do you have to pay to park a motorbike in the parking bays I see around in the city, are they thief magnets if left on the street (I will secure it but e.g. this is only partially effective with bikes) and is getting a space to park in the city tough?

Obviously the house buying decision is heavily influenced by my commute so your answers on this will be appreciated.

Cheers

richVSrich

medders, sorry dont know anything about motorbikes, just assuming it would be faster, and your can wear the gear over normal clothes...

..but your avatar cracks me up

iPete

I went from 17>20-22miles each way, its the trafficy bits that really slow things down so guess it depends where in the city you are heading as to whether its ok to cycle or motorbike. I guess I don't have a WAG at home and considering it good training miles so it hasn't been an issue being out for longer, your wife may disagree!

Option 1, by the time you've arsed around with sticking the bike in the car, driving somewhere, finding somewhere to park and going you may as well have cycled all the way IMO.

veronese68

A motorbike will be faster for the early part of your commute, but will lose the advantage as you get to heavier traffic. It's harder to filter on a motorbike as they are that bit wider, but at least you can use ASL's.
You can wear motorbike gear over your work clothes, I always did, but it gets really hot in summer.
I don't think they are that much more dangerous than cycling. Obviously speeds can be a lot higher, but you should be wearing much better protective gear. You don't get road rash through decent leathers. The problem is if you hit something, or if something hits you. If you don't ride like a complete tool you should be fine. Having cycled you will be a lot more road aware.
Can't tell you specifics about your route or parking in central London I'm afraid.

twist83

Motorbikes I can help with.

As you want to ride a 500cc you will need to do your full test. This is now a 2 part test and a Theory test. Cost wise I guess with lessons you are looking at £500-700 all in for a decent Intensive course and tests etc.

Bike wise budget dependant but a half decent 500cc sit up and beg commuter I guess about £1000-2000. Motorcycle gear is where it pushes up the cost. Yes you can where stuff over your normal cloths, it will crease a bit obviously but is possible. Waterproofs are very good these days and keep you dry if you buy decent kit. Waterproof jacket, trousers and a Decent helmet I would say £500+ for this. You only have one head! Can be done on a cheaper budget but the proper waterproof stuff is not cheap. Obviously you may want leathers as well....

Do not forget Insurance, Tax and MOT on the bike and servicing repairs and obviously fuel. It is not cheap to get a full bike test and get setup so if it is a cost saving exercise I would forget it personally.

Yukirin

I'm no expert, but I'll input.
Assuming you have never ridden a motorbike before, why a 500cc and not a 125? In my head a 125 is much safer for a beginner.
Also, can you pass your test and jump straight on a 500? I thought you had to do time on a lower powered bike first? But maybe that only counts for "superbikes" though? Look into that.
My dad used to take work clothes in the top box. Sweaty in the summer still though. My dad's 125 would do 65mph. He likes to fettle though and was always tinkering with the engine to get more speed. Think it did over 70 at one point. Safe? I can remember him having 3 offs. One quite bad which broke bones in his hand. One was his fault and lost the back end on a frozen drain cover. He's had more offs on his ribble though.

clarkey cat

I come in from Walton on Thames so a similar distance.

Pushbike - 1hr 10/20 depending on wind and traffic.
Vespa - 50mins / 1hr 5 mins depending on traffic.

The speed advantage is gained 90% on the section up to West Hill on the A3, after that I'm neck and neck with the quicker cyclists.

clarkey cat

to answer your other questions:

motorcycle parking is free except in the borough of Westminster where it is £1 a day.
don't know about theif magnets but expect some wag to push your bike over from time to time.
if you work in the City then I suggest the City of London Car Parks where there is security (and free).
It is miserable in bad weather - really fooking cold.

Big_Paul

For my sins, I'm a motorcyclist too, and it has it's pros and cons like everything else.

Motorcycle clothing is very heavy, you can't just roll it up and put it in a bag, if it rains the clothing will keep you dry, but it does soak up water, I rode 50 miles in the rain last night and my jacket was still wet to the touch this morning. Also, buy the best kit you can afford, you could be out 5 or 6 hundred quid on gear alone if you're planning to ride all year round.

In winter, the cold is a nightmare if it's minus 3 and you're riding at 50mph, it'll feel like minus 15. It can really get to you.

Also parking can be a problem, there are few motorcycle only bays in Belfast, we have a few sites that we park on, probably illegally, on the ticket obsessed mainland, you could be talking another bill.

Don't bother buying a bike to learn to ride on, do your test with a school bike then buy your own, something like a CB500 or GPZ500 will do great for commuting, you'll get a good example of either of those two for less than a grand. Cosmetically ratty but mechanically sound is what to go for, no point buying something blingy that hasn't been looked after.

greg66_tri_v2.0

My 2 penneth:

When we did our Big Move To The Country (N1 to SW18) I thought I'd get a motorbike for the crap days. I had even got as far as having my sights on a VFR800 (I don't have an MB licence, have never ridden one, and didn't get as far as looking into whether I'd be able to ride a bike that big as a first bike, cos, well, I was pretty sure I would be able to if I wanted to. And I sure as hell didn't bother costing the whole thing, because that's really boooorrrring. And as any fule kno, "want" >> "afford").

We moved at the end of May, and that June and July the weather was beautiful, pretty much every day as my rose-tinted memory recalls it.

However, in those 8 weeks I saw the aftermath of three very heavy motorbike accidents on the Embankment - sand on the road, bikes wrecked, ambulances and police in attendance. I decided that someone was trying to tell me something, so dropped the MB idea.

Since then, it's far to say, I've seen the aftermath of virtually no accidents, and none as big as those three were.

I also had to bear in mind that I really, really like speed, so I would have ended up at some point on a proper crotch rocket sports bike, and thereafter at some point could well have ended up very dead. Sometimes self-knowledge can be useful.

rjsterry

clarkey cat wrote:

It is miserable in bad weather - really fooking cold.

This would seem to invalidate the "use it when the weather is bad" idea. At least you keep (most of you) warm on a bike. There's a reason why you see all those ugly gaiter things over m/bike handlebars, and their riders wrapped up in layer after layer of clothing.

And using it when the weather is nice would seem a real shame.

veronese68

Greg66 wrote:

I also had to bear in mind that I really, really like speed, so I would have ended up at some point on a proper crotch rocket sports bike, and thereafter at some point could well have ended up very dead. Sometimes self-knowledge can be useful.

Very true. Riding the Ducati was great fun, but I was constantly having to rein myself in. I'd often have to have words with myself for gunning it through a gap when I should have waited.

mudcow007

Veronese68 wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

I also had to bear in mind that I really, really like speed, so I would have ended up at some point on a proper crotch rocket sports bike, and thereafter at some point could well have ended up very dead. Sometimes self-knowledge can be useful.

Very true. Riding the Ducati was great fun, but I was constantly having to rein myself in. I'd often have to have words with myself for gunning it through a gap when I should have waited.

went to drop my cg engine off at the big bike shop yesterday an they had a Ducati 999 in shiny red, with lots of bits of carbon on it for sale

i was nursing a semi, im not going to lie

twist83

Veronese68 wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

I also had to bear in mind that I really, really like speed, so I would have ended up at some point on a proper crotch rocket sports bike, and thereafter at some point could well have ended up very dead. Sometimes self-knowledge can be useful.

Very true. Riding the Ducati was great fun, but I was constantly having to rein myself in. I'd often have to have words with myself for gunning it through a gap when I should have waited.

Agreed which is why I do not really ride on the road anymore!! Track only for me. However since riding on track I have dislocated a shoulder, broken a finger and fractured my arm near the elbow. However had I crashed like that on road I would not be alive to be typing this due to street furniture.

I do love a Ducati I miss mine

Cafewanda

mudcow007 wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

I also had to bear in mind that I really, really like speed, so I would have ended up at some point on a proper crotch rocket sports bike, and thereafter at some point could well have ended up very dead. Sometimes self-knowledge can be useful.

Very true. Riding the Ducati was great fun, but I was constantly having to rein myself in. I'd often have to have words with myself for gunning it through a gap when I should have waited.

went to drop my cg engine off at the big bike shop yesterday an they had a Ducati 999 in shiny red, with lots of bits of carbon on it for sale

i was nursing a semi, im not going to lie

You owe me a clean laptop

cookeeemonster

forget the 500cc+, stick to a lower capacity motorbike or scooter.

The more powerful a bike is, the more unhappier it'll feel riding at town speeds - you'll gradually begin to go faster and faster, take more risks, get more aggressive and so on (ok not all people, but most will).

I'm no boy racer idiot but after moving to a ducati then a triumph street triple after years on vespas/lambrettas I noticed this happened to me even though I was convinced it never would...in the end I sold the triumph and went back to a 300cc vespa, best move I ever made. Handles motorways fine and feels good in town, plus has space under the seat etc for a certain amount of luggage.

Then I discovered cycling and it's in the shed most of the time

greg66_tri_v2.0

mudcow007 wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

I also had to bear in mind that I really, really like speed, so I would have ended up at some point on a proper crotch rocket sports bike, and thereafter at some point could well have ended up very dead. Sometimes self-knowledge can be useful.

Very true. Riding the Ducati was great fun, but I was constantly having to rein myself in. I'd often have to have words with myself for gunning it through a gap when I should have waited.

went to drop my cg engine off at the big bike shop yesterday an they had a Ducati 999 in shiny red, with lots of bits of carbon on it for sale

i was nursing a semi, im not going to lie

Like this?


Yeah. That's *exactly* the sort of thing I would have hankered after.

I can never quit get over how cheap second hand superbikes are.

ETA:

Want that one:

That ain't no semi, either.

clarkey cat

got to say I hardly ever use my Vespa like cookeeeemonster. I either cycle or if I cant be bothered to cycle I get the train. Unless the sun is shining riding the Vespa for 20+ miles in London-traffic is a bit of an endurance event.

edhornby

if you are still planning on doing cycle rides but using the bike as a restday stopgap - and considering it's into London which isn't fast roads, is it worth doing CBT and getting a moped? this would be cheaper and easier to be approved by the fun police

veronese68

I completely disagree with CokeeMonster. I find that on a low powered bike it's more dangerous as you want to keep momentum so you try not to lose speed if you can help it. On a powerful bike you can afford to slow down, wait for a gap and be back up to speed and passed the obstacle in the blink of an eye. Having said that my last bike was a 1200cc Triumph Daytona and that was just too big and heavy in town. The Ducati was much better as it was a lot smaller and lighter, but with plenty of grunt.

Medders

cheers all good stuff. Could be academic anyway if the wife exercises her total veto.

In truth I also have some star wars speeder bike/tron imagery in my head that is helping drive this.

For various reasons it would pretty much have to be a honda and I was thinking of something pretty tame like this
http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/naked/#!/nc700s/
I realise its not cheap but it would still be better and cheaper than the train.

mudcow007

i bought my self a Honda CG125, just something for me to take apart an play with

its my first bike so its a steep learning curve, i think flat out it will get to an earth shattering 50mph

tax is 15 per year an insurance is about £100. so that maybe an option for you?

clarkey cat

Could be academic anyway if the wife exercises her total veto.

come again?

veronese68

My wife keeps telling me to get another motorbike as she worries about me cycling every day. :shock:
She could be trying to get rid of me. We have been married 17 years and I can be a right irritating prat at times.

cookeeemonster

Veronese68 wrote:

I completely disagree with CokeeMonster. I find that on a low powered bike it's more dangerous as you want to keep momentum so you try not to lose speed if you can help it. On a powerful bike you can afford to slow down, wait for a gap and be back up to speed and passed the obstacle in the blink of an eye. Having said that my last bike was a 1200cc Triumph Daytona and that was just too big and heavy in town. The Ducati was much better as it was a lot smaller and lighter, but with plenty of grunt.

when was the last time you rode a low powered bike? newish 125's and above are pretty nippy these days

I strongly disagree with the low powered bikes are dangerous bit, it's simply not true in my experience. The riders attitude and ability to ride defensively are far more important in my opinion, but each to their own

veronese68

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

I completely disagree with CokeeMonster. I find that on a low powered bike it's more dangerous as you want to keep momentum so you try not to lose speed if you can help it. On a powerful bike you can afford to slow down, wait for a gap and be back up to speed and passed the obstacle in the blink of an eye. Having said that my last bike was a 1200cc Triumph Daytona and that was just too big and heavy in town. The Ducati was much better as it was a lot smaller and lighter, but with plenty of grunt.

when was the last time you rode a low powered bike? newish 125's and above are pretty nippy these days

I strongly disagree with the low powered bikes are dangerous bit, it's simply not true in my experience. The riders attitude and ability to ride defensively are far more important in my opinion, but each to their own

About 10 years ago when my wife had a scooter. You're right about the attitude. It's me that doesn't want to lose momentum, not the bike. I just find they encouraged me to ride like that.

TheEnglishman

If all you're doing is 20 miles each way get a 'ped. If you plan on using the motorbike for anything else - like trips at the weekend i.e. you really get into motorbikes, then get something bigger.

Personally I felt far more safe and in control on a motorbike than I do on a bicycle. But then I had a bloody great big BMW R1200GS.

That, of course, was right up until a car did a U turn in front of me.

cookeeemonster

Veronese68 wrote:

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

I completely disagree with CokeeMonster. I find that on a low powered bike it's more dangerous as you want to keep momentum so you try not to lose speed if you can help it. On a powerful bike you can afford to slow down, wait for a gap and be back up to speed and passed the obstacle in the blink of an eye. Having said that my last bike was a 1200cc Triumph Daytona and that was just too big and heavy in town. The Ducati was much better as it was a lot smaller and lighter, but with plenty of grunt.

when was the last time you rode a low powered bike? newish 125's and above are pretty nippy these days

I strongly disagree with the low powered bikes are dangerous bit, it's simply not true in my experience. The riders attitude and ability to ride defensively are far more important in my opinion, but each to their own

About 10 years ago when my wife had a scooter. You're right about the attitude. It's me that doesn't want to lose momentum, not the bike. I just find they encouraged me to ride like that.

so the moral is both low and high powered bikes are dangerous - avoid 'em!!

Big_Paul

Veronese68 wrote:

I completely disagree with CokeeMonster. I find that on a low powered bike it's more dangerous as you want to keep momentum so you try not to lose speed if you can help it. On a powerful bike you can afford to slow down, wait for a gap and be back up to speed and passed the obstacle in the blink of an eye. Having said that my last bike was a 1200cc Triumph Daytona and that was just too big and heavy in town. The Ducati was much better as it was a lot smaller and lighter, but with plenty of grunt.

I was a courier for 8 years, around 500cc is the best balance of power and lightness, the old GT550 kwak was perfect, but they all went to London to die, I have a Pan European and although it's a big bike, it will pull away in any gear from less than 2000 rpm so it's pretty handy in town. But for a commute, a 500 does everything, 125's just don't have the get up and go to get out of trouble.

alansd1980

I am in a really similar situation.

I come in from Banstead which is only a couple of miles from Ashtead/Epsom. A couple of days a week I use a 125cc scooter to get into Russell Square and the other days I cycle. I would use the trains but connections from here are terrible. If I had an option I would avoid the Motorbike option as by the time you pay for the bike, CBT,insurance servicing and petrol it's certainly a lot more expensive than the train. The other thing is that its a lot easier to cop out of riding when you oversleep a bit and just jump on the bike. When you need to drag yourself to the train station cycling becomes a better option.

I looked into doing the Direct Access Scheme which would let you ride a proper bike straight away and its in the region of 800quid these days. There are pretty good links from where you are looking to move to so I would just enjoy a day or two rest during the week.

Agent57

I did direct access a few years ago when I was about 39. Bought a Honda Hornet (CB-600-F), and that's more than enough bike for me. Fast enough to feel fun, and still newb friendly. It's also unfaired, which discourages me from winding it up on the motorway...

As for commuting, you'd still have the problem we cyclists have in winter; two wheels are shit when the roads are icy.