TrainingPeaks Athlete Edition vs WKO+

springtide9

TrainingPeaks Athlete Edition vs WKO+

Seem to be able to get 40% discount on Athlete Edition (Premium) from British Cycling membership. I have the Basic account, but it seems all of the good functionality is in the premium edition.

I guess it's only £45 for the year for the Athlete Edition (Premium), so not the end of the world.

I done the trial of WKO+, but unfortunately after only three datasets my PT had a fault (and now the trial has expired)... but I did find it rather complex.

I also have Golden Cheetah as well as Strava and Garmin Connect, and all seem to differ in various training metrics, so just wanting to use one as the master (and I like the idea of it being online).

Ideally the more Athlete focused (rather than Coach) it is the better. i.e. have complex things going on 'under the bonnet', but display progress information in an easy to read fashion (as well as should where I should target my training for my weaknesses)

One other point to make is that most of my data will come from training rides (with the odd race), so the software needs to be able to 'cherry pick' any interval data out of these files. I don't really get a chance to do specific interval type training (the most I'd do is use Strava segments of a specific length as main of a main ride for any interval work)

Anyone with more experience with these products feel free to share any info. Data will be coming from a PT Pro / Edge 800.

Thanks

amaferanga

By the sounds of it Golden Cheetah (either v2 or v3) will do everything you want and it's free so why pay for Training Peaks?

springtide9

amaferanga wrote:

By the sounds of it Golden Cheetah (either v2 or v3) will do everything you want and it's free so why pay for Training Peaks?

Yep, I actually find Golden Cheetah easier to use than WKO+ and the 'cherry picking' data from training rides works.

I like the idea of it being Web based and my CF on GC seems to jump around a lot after each ride (the last week it's gone from 270 watts -> 303 watts -> 289 watts)

I am also struggling with power values for a rides (averages, cherry pickings etc), as Garmin, Strava and Golden Cheetah all give me different values. Training Peaks WKO+ seems similar to the Garmin Connect figures, where as Strava and GC seem similar.

e.g.
http://app.strava.com/rides/11979634
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/194660902

http://app.strava.com/rides/12176608
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/194523251

If I'm honest, they all seem rather complicated.... which is why I thought the TrainingPeaks Athlete Edition premium might be a little bit more rider (rather than coach) friendly :-)
I can understand 1min, 5 min, 20 min powers etc, and that I guess I train for specific intervals to improve them, but looking at the power and scatter graphs, these just cause more confusion.
I did try and look for a few training videos last night to try and help me along, but didn't find very much.

amaferanga

springtide9 wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

By the sounds of it Golden Cheetah (either v2 or v3) will do everything you want and it's free so why pay for Training Peaks?

Yep, I actually find Golden Cheetah easier to use than WKO+ and the 'cherry picking' data from training rides works.

I like the idea of it being Web based and my CF on GC seems to jump around a lot after each ride (the last week it's gone from 270 watts -> 303 watts -> 289 watts)

I am also struggling with power values for a rides (averages, cherry pickings etc), as Garmin, Strava and Golden Cheetah all give me different values. Training Peaks WKO+ seems similar to the Garmin Connect figures, where as Strava and GC seem similar.

e.g.
http://app.strava.com/rides/11979634
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/194660902

http://app.strava.com/rides/12176608
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/194523251

If I'm honest, they all seem rather complicated.... which is why I thought the TrainingPeaks Athlete Edition premium might be a little bit more rider (rather than coach) friendly :-)
I can understand 1min, 5 min, 20 min powers etc, and that I guess I train for specific intervals to improve them, but looking at the power and scatter graphs, these just cause more confusion.
I did try and look for a few training videos last night to try and help me along, but didn't find very much.

The CP figure from GC is pretty meaningless unless you go out and do proper maximal testing with intervals of the appropriate duration. For the purposes of setting FTP/CP you should properly test on a fairly regular basis and certainly not just use the CP figure that GC reports.

As for the differences in power - do you have power to include zeros set on your Garmin? I've not noticed any significant differences between Golden Cheetah and Garmin Connect. Not really paid much attention to Strava.

springtide9

amaferanga wrote:

The CP figure from GC is pretty meaningless unless you go out and do proper maximal testing with intervals of the appropriate duration. For the purposes of setting FTP/CP you should properly test on a fairly regular basis and certainly not just use the CP figure that GC reports.

As for the differences in power - do you have power to include zeros set on your Garmin? I've not noticed any significant differences between Golden Cheetah and Garmin Connect. Not really paid much attention to Strava.

Now that is a question... what should it be set too? Zero averaging on or off?
I know I have 'smart recording' set to off. Is zero averaging what the Garmin displays or does it effect the .fit file data?

Edit: Looks like this might explain the differences:
https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=25026

Will have to try a 20min test as you suggested. It's just that it's not that easy finding a 20 min route that you can go 'balls out' as it doesn't have any stops etc.

amaferanga

springtide9 wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

The CP figure from GC is pretty meaningless unless you go out and do proper maximal testing with intervals of the appropriate duration. For the purposes of setting FTP/CP you should properly test on a fairly regular basis and certainly not just use the CP figure that GC reports.

As for the differences in power - do you have power to include zeros set on your Garmin? I've not noticed any significant differences between Golden Cheetah and Garmin Connect. Not really paid much attention to Strava.

Now that is a question... what should it be set too? Zero averaging on or off?
I know I have 'smart recording' set to off. Is zero averaging what the Garmin displays or does it effect the .fit file data?

Edit: Looks like this might explain the differences:
https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=25026

Will have to try a 20min test as you suggested. It's just that it's not that easy finding a 20 min route that you can go 'balls out' as it doesn't have any stops etc.

You should have zero averaging for power 'on' (and 'off' for cadence), but it's not that important. All the data is still there - it just effects what is displayed on the Garmin and (I think) in Garmin Connect. Whether it's on or off should make no difference in Golden Cheetah or WKO+, but if you do have it switched off then it might explain the difference between average power on the Garmin and in Golden Cheetah/WKO+. What about auto pause? Is that on or off? Best to switch it off - periods where you don't pedal (e.g. stopped at a junction) are significant since they influence the power you can produce after the rest so there's no good justification for chopping them out.

springtide9

amaferanga wrote:

You should have zero averaging for power 'on' (and 'off' for cadence), but it's not that important. All the data is still there - it just effects what is displayed on the Garmin and (I think) in Garmin Connect. Whether it's on or off should make no difference in Golden Cheetah or WKO+, but if you do have it switched off then it might explain the difference between average power on the Garmin and in Golden Cheetah/WKO+. What about auto pause? Is that on or off? Best to switch it off - periods where you don't pedal (e.g. stopped at a junction) are significant since they influence the power you can produce after the rest so there's no good justification for chopping them out.

Thanks. Yep, zero averaging was turned on (which is probably why average power in Garmin Connect was higher). I also noticed that the Edge 800 also has settings for FTP and Power zones etc (as well as Garmin Connect) - so have now corrected these.

And yes, auto pause is disabled.

BTW, how/where do you do your 20min test? I was thinking about this last night and I an struggling to see how this can be done on the road (unless I find a dual carrageway!)