BG Footbeds for Flat Feet

Simmo72

Hi

I pronate and have fairly flat feet, does this mean the red footbeds are most appropriate? Specialized seem to differ to running insoles where if you pronate you get soles that raise your arches to prevent shin splints.

Specialized seem to do the opposite and offer you a footbed that meets your foots current shape? I guess it makes sense. I'm just trying to get rid of a bit of hot foot and allign my knee with the shims as I can clearly see I track inwards. I use time shoes at the moment, the insoles are thinner than toilet paper but the shape of the shoe fits my wide feet.

brettjmcc

have you tried stepping on one of their special mats to see which bed you are?

Simmo72

No, there isn't a store near me that has it but I know from having my feet scanned for running footbeds that my feet are flat (which in running terms means they build up the arch to stop your shins from exploding. I might just switch to BG shoes anyway (and get the red footbed as standard) as I hear you can move the cleat further back than other brands.

Grill

Your feet are not truly flat, if they were there would be no need to build the arch to stop pronation and fitting would be quite simple.

Look at Superfeet Green or the Blacks if you need to gain volume.

jgsi

I got myself a pair of sworks shoes last year ... with the red beds as standard.
First race, right foot in distinct discomfort after 25 miles.. on the outside of the foot if I remember correctly.
I took a punt on getting the green beds and changed the red one over in the right shoe.
Discomfort free from that point on.
I am not at all understanding the intricacies of foot orthopaedics, so must have been lucky in finding a solution

Simmo72

Grill wrote:

Your feet are not truly flat, if they were there would be no need to build the arch to stop pronation and fitting would be quite simple.

Look at Superfeet Green or the Blacks if you need to gain volume.

Not sure I understand. physios, running specialists and Podiatrists say I have flat feet, the result is you tend to roll inwards too much as you are lacking the natual arch of your foot. insoles, support or control running shoes), they all add in a layer of arch (and other things to align your feet, ankles, knees etc and reduce the pronation.

If I apply the same logic to Specialized then I should buy the blue or green but their directions indicate I should get a pair of Reds. I assume its because they see no point in creating the arch, your feet are flat, thats that, any interfering and you'll just put pressure on certain points ....plus unlike running you don't have 2/12 times your body weight hitting your feet on each pedal stroke....I guess thats the theory but just want to hear if other flat feeters out there have done the same thing.

Grill

I was a fitter for many years. A good footbed is designed to stabilise and support (and in the case of sports equalize press), not change the way you stand. Unfortunately podiatrists can be some of the worst to see when it comes to fitting footbeds for sports as even though the understand the morphology, the biomechanics are lost on them. There's a reason that Solutions4feet and Pro-feet have set up an accredited Uni course for such fitting.

Proper running footbeds are rarely more than a 3/4 as the foot needs to flex and have a certain mobility. With cycling there's an increase in pressure at the cleat (typically the ball) and if the arch isn't properly supported the amount of press can create problems such as stress/pain of the tarsals, numbing of the toes, and cramps.

Looking at Specialized's site the Blue looks to be the best bet, but for my money I'd still go Superfeet.

d87heaven

If you have 'flat feet' why not strengthen the foot and get some arch back in them. IMHO Orthotics are just a sticking plaster fix. If someone said you had to wear a splint on your arm for the rest of your life because your shoulder hurt you would question it. Ok there some cases where an orthotic are needed but they are too easily dished out.

Grill

d87heaven wrote:

If you have 'flat feet' why not strengthen the foot and get some arch back in them. IMHO Orthotics are just a sticking plaster fix. If someone said you had to wear a splint on your arm for the rest of your life because your shoulder hurt you would question it. Ok there some cases where an orthotic are needed but they are too easily dished out.

You're terribly misinformed. This isn't really an option for heavy-press sports. Think of it like choosing a saddle. What you're suggesting is akin to training your body to accept and be comfortable with a saddle that's unsuitable for your body shape as opposed to finding the one that's right for you.

Footbeds are not a sling for the arm. For most they're a replacement rotator cuff.

d87heaven

Where did I say anything about footbeds?

Grill

d87heaven wrote:

Where did I say anything about footbeds?

Orthotics are Footbeds. The terms can either be used interchangeably or one can take the more narrow view that an orthotic is a footbed made by an orthopedist.

d87heaven

Ok we can call them one and the same thing although most people associate footbeds with cycling and orthotics as a more general term.
What causes flat feet?
And how does a footbed/orthotic compare to a rotator cuff which is a stabilising and rotating group of muscles. An orthotic is a support/splint.
What happens if the guy wants to walk around without shoes? Tape the orthotics to his feet?

Grill

As I stated in my last post:
"This isn't really an option for heavy-press sports."

The stresses placed upon the feet during such activities (skiing, snowboarding, cycling to name a few) put an abnormal stress on the feet as the press isn't natural. With running even though you hammer the feet hard the press isn't constant nor abnormal (unless you can't walk). For some (cycling) or many (skiing) proper footbeds are the only way to participate in the support without massive discomfort and will improve the experience for those who can live with a bit of pain. My analogy was basically saying that in some cases a footbed is necessary and not being used as a plaster.

I for one don't require footbeds when I run, but for skiing, snowboarding, and cycling they're absolutely vital and all designed to take into account the different type of press each of those sports require.

d87heaven

How is the press in cycling constant. The maximum you can press is from 12 to 6 o'clock. and the load can only be your bodyweight. Running for instance is 4 to 5 times the bodyweight upon impact and cadence is 180/min (for the pain of feet) The main difference I can see between them is one of cycling can put you in a position where postural deviations may make more of a difference...perhaps.
Im genuinly interested and not trying to pick an argument.

Grill

I should be more specific. My background is in snowsports so I relate a lot of my contentions through experience in said field. The force is exerted on the feet is the same with skiing and cycling. When I say "constant pressure" I mean that the entire foot is engaged through the sole.

Cycling shoes are very much like ski boots in that they're very stiff (and get stiffer the higher end you go) and the feet stay planted exerted all the force straight down through the sole. In both activities the feet move in alternative rhythm from weighted to unweighted. During the portion that the foot is weighted all the force is driven through the sole. If the foot is not correctly supported during this driving phase then it will collapse (most commonly at the arch and behind the metatarsal head) and cause a loss of power as the energy is no longer driven to the sole evenly. Pronation aggravates the problem as it causes excess mobility and even a greater energy loss.

To be as efficient as possible you want the downward driving force to be even through the entire sole of the foot. The best way to achieve this is to stabilize the foot which is best accomplished via footbeds. The fact that they alleviate pain for many is simply a byproduct of the foot being supported properly for what is in fact an abnormal excursion.

Keep in mind that the load in both sports is more than your bodyweight as you're actually driving your press with force. Think of it as a leg press; you can certainly press more than your bodyweight, now imagine how much more you could press if you had Cavandish's legs.

Going back to running, that's a natural motion through a highly padded median. The impact itself travels up the body instead of being localized to one place (constant press).

brettjmcc

Simmo72 wrote:

No, there isn't a store near me that has it but I know from having my feet scanned for running footbeds that my feet are flat (which in running terms means they build up the arch to stop your shins from exploding. I might just switch to BG shoes anyway (and get the red footbed as standard) as I hear you can move the cleat further back than other brands.

You don't need to go to a Specialised shop to do it, I have seen the mat you stand on in places like Cyclesurgery. Just give a few bike shops a call to see if they have them? A few pence in phone calls could be worth it, as the beds are £25.

d87heaven

Sorry Gril but I can't agree.
Feet only need supporting if they have an intrinsic weakness ( I'm taking out specific problems like deformity or arthiritis for arguments sake). A good arch will support the foot, it doesn't need another arch put under it. A weak arch can be strengthened, splinting it with an orthotic will weaken it further as it no longer needs to work at all.
Cycling shoes are stiff for the reason of applying force through the pedal, if they were soft then you would be wasting energy compressing sponge before the energy is applied to the pedal. Notice how cleats are placed under the ball of foot, the arch can take the strain.......provided the surounding muscles do their job.
Pronation is natures way of protecting the feet, in itself it is not a problem. Yes, a weak arch will allow the foot collapse inwards, you can stop this happening with a orthotic or by strengthening the surrounding muscles.

Keep in mind that the load in both sports is more than your bodyweight as you're actually driving your press with force. Think of it as a leg press; you can certainly press more than your bodyweight, now imagine how much more you could press if you had Cavandish's legs.

But cycling isn't a leg press. With cycling you are using body weight and gravity to turn pedals. They can assist that with pulling the bars and standing up. Imagine doing a leg press with out a seat behind you.

Going back to running, that's a natural motion through a highly padded median. The impact itself travels up the body instead of being localized to one place (constant press).

Can't say I've seen track spikes or racing flats that are highly padded. I'm sure foot loading is greater running (5 times body weight) than it is sat down pressing a pedal.
Can you explain the impact element as that I don't understand. Running is impact, cycling isn't.

If you go see a podiatrist they will prescribe orthotics as thats what they are trained to do.
If you go to a bike shop and say your feet hurt they may suggest orthotics as what else can they do apart from offer a band aid/money making solution.
First stop in my opinion is to look at the function of the foot. If that can't be improved or they don't want to put the effort in then orthotics are the last option.

Grill

d87heaven wrote:

Sorry Gril but I can't agree.
Feet only need supporting if they have an intrinsic weakness ( I'm taking out specific problems like deformity or arthiritis for arguments sake). A good arch will support the foot, it doesn't need another arch put under it. A weak arch can be strengthened, splinting it with an orthotic will weaken it further as it no longer needs to work at all.
Cycling shoes are stiff for the reason of applying force through the pedal, if they were soft then you would be wasting energy compressing sponge before the energy is applied to the pedal. Notice how cleats are placed under the ball of foot, the arch can take the strain.......provided the surounding muscles do their job.
Pronation is natures way of protecting the feet, in itself it is not a problem. Yes, a weak arch will allow the foot collapse inwards, you can stop this happening with a orthotic or by strengthening the surrounding muscles.

Muscles can be strengthened, yes, but for the most part we're talking about the added strain through the ligament. Rule of thumb with fitting- don't try and fix the foot. It's rarely effective and can lead to other problems.

Cycling overly engages the forefoot, as you've said. As I've said, the point of a footbed in a cycling shoe is stability. A stable foot translates into greater comfort and less fatigue, plus it's less likely that the ankle will become improperly engaged.

But cycling isn't a leg press. With cycling you are using body weight and gravity to turn pedals. They can assist that with pulling the bars and standing up. Imagine doing a leg press with out a seat behind you.

You're right, this was an oversight on my part as I forgot to take into account the lack of G whilst cycling. Peak can be more than body weight if you held then handlebars to stop yourself going over, but for all intensive purposes the output won't be nearly as high for a cyclist. Thanks for catching that.

If you go see a podiatrist they will prescribe orthotics as thats what they are trained to do.
If you go to a bike shop and say your feet hurt they may suggest orthotics as what else can they do apart from offer a band aid/money making solution.
First stop in my opinion is to look at the function of the foot. If that can't be improved or they don't want to put the effort in then orthotics are the last option.

I'm not a podiatrist, but I have fitted hundreds of insoles over the years for everyone from punters to pros. 99% of the time the all that's required is the correct shoes along with the correct off the shelf insole with no/minimum modification. Proper bike fitters do the same thing, although for many the shoe fitting stops with an ITS wedge or a shim. With the ridiculous amounts we all spend for a comfortable fitting bike, doesn't it make sense to invest a bit on the feet?

Simmo72

Thanks for all the feedback, especially Grill
Lots of interesting views. I am very wary of anything that corrects the way we were born . I went through a round of specialists for solving my running shin splints and compartment syndrome (all caused by a hip problem). Support trainers - Pro feet footbeds - Custom orthotics - all trying to stabilise my pronation - and a hell of a lot of strengthening and stretching. All this and the problem just got worse even with lots of time off. In the end I stopped using them all, purchased a pair of bare foot shoes and have never looked back. The trainers and insoles just made the problem worse. Running barefoot forces you to land on your mid foot - hence less shock up the leg and no injuries since.

However for cycling I think I just need a footbed to cater for flat feet, not adjust them to be different; I think Grill is spot on. I tried putting my custom made running orthotics in my cycling shoes and I suffered terrible pains, probably too much arch support.

thejames

Great invaulable thread! Grills I think has it spot on because I have had tons of cusotm insoles that have just over supported my feet and given them nowhere no room at all. Does anyone have any god suggestion for off shelf insoles I have seen superfeet ones but look too expensive and after reading reviews about them they dont sound any different to ones like these from edunonline at half the price... http://edunonline.com/product/shock-absorbing-arch-support-insoles/

Grill

Those footbeds look awful. Both the shape and material are sub-par and they won't lend much, if anything, in real support. Superfeet are incredibly stiff under the arch (they have a hard plastic support) so they won't collapse. The other option I've found to be very good are the Specialized BG footbeds.

waterford123

My physio said I've got the flattest feet he's ever seen and I used the blue Specialized footbeds. That was until I bought a pair of Lake shoes which just fit beautifully with the insoles that come with the shoes.