fork choice - is sooo mind boggling
CycloRos
Posts: 579
Firstly apologies for yet another fork thread...
Here's my dilemma, been running a Pike on my mmmBop for best part of 18 months and I *thought* it was doin the job fine. However I switched it out for an old fox 32 I had knocking around and the difference after todays ride in terms of damping control and weight is astonishing!
Both forks are in need of a good strip down and service but question is should I bother? As neither fork is perfect (fox doesn't have screw thu axle) and I did miss it today, so should I buy new instead? Liking the look of the Sektor solo air, especially at less than 300 sheets but bit worried I won't like the moco again, fox's are still stupid expensive but I don't mind forking out (pardon the pun!) if its worth it... Not bothered about travel adjust, i'd rather have fit and forget reliability. Travel must be between130-150mm, anyone got any thoughts?
Here's my dilemma, been running a Pike on my mmmBop for best part of 18 months and I *thought* it was doin the job fine. However I switched it out for an old fox 32 I had knocking around and the difference after todays ride in terms of damping control and weight is astonishing!
Both forks are in need of a good strip down and service but question is should I bother? As neither fork is perfect (fox doesn't have screw thu axle) and I did miss it today, so should I buy new instead? Liking the look of the Sektor solo air, especially at less than 300 sheets but bit worried I won't like the moco again, fox's are still stupid expensive but I don't mind forking out (pardon the pun!) if its worth it... Not bothered about travel adjust, i'd rather have fit and forget reliability. Travel must be between130-150mm, anyone got any thoughts?
0
Comments
-
Given that the Sektors are flexier, less well damped and less adjustable than the pikes, I wouldn't bother (although some are lighter)
What model of Pike though exactly? And float?0 -
Which Talas? RL RLC, RLC FIT etc etc? Some of these don't even have compression damping!0
-
RL circa 2007, not sure what difference that makes to my original question. So what advice, stick with one of the forks I already have or is there something else out there that better suits my requirements? I had considered stripping the Pikes down, is there anything I can do to improve the damping?0
-
There is absolutely no doubt that the Pike has a better damper than the Float RL - this is the reason I asked, I think the Pike does need a service like you say. The Pike has adjustable low speed compression damping, adjustable high speed gate, plus the rebound - the float is a simple lockout, and that's it.
So I'd keep the Pike if you can get on with the weight and give it a service ie clean, replace all the o rings, fresh oil. Service guides are available from SRAM, and MoCo kits are sen often on ebay.0 -
I used to have a set of pikes with moco. Good action but yes they did weight a heck of a lot. Got revs now and the difference is astonishing in terms of both weight and performance. Basic RL version.0
-
You can upgrade the Pike to air, would need to contact TF tuned.0
-
supersonic wrote:There is absolutely no doubt that the Pike has a better damper than the Float RL - this is the reason I asked, I think the Pike does need a service like you say. The Pike has adjustable low speed compression damping, adjustable high speed gate, plus the rebound - the float is a simple lockout, and that's it.
So I'd keep the Pike if you can get on with the weight and give it a service ie clean, replace all the o rings, fresh oil. Service guides are available from SRAM, and MoCo kits are sen often on ebay.
It may be better on paper, but I'd say its much closer on the trail, particularly that age of fox fork, super smooth open bath internals. Personally if the pikes need work and a new air spring to get the weight down, I'd give the fox's the full work over instead, fit newer lowers and get the damper upgraded to a FIT cartridge and it be far better than the pike. Maybe not quite as stiff, but still stiff enough and the damper is superb.0 -
It dives and bobs all over the place through - bombs through it's travel. It feels so smooth and plush becase it has little comp damping. I'd rather ride my Tora!
If getting new lowers and a new damper, might as well get a new air spring and service the moco for the Pikes!0 -
The Pikes may edge it on adjustability but i've never managed to get them to feel anywhere as nice as the Fox's are straight out of the box. The Pikes always had a tendency to dive through their travel and never offered as much support in the corners. Seeing as the Pikes are off the bike at the mo I am willing to give em the once over and see if I can breathe new life into them. The Fox's will stay on for now. Lol! at the Tora comment
@bennett_346; thats why i am tempted by the Sektor RL solos with a 20mm maxle, rev-espque performance, should be plenty stiff and drop about 600g over the Pikes0 -
You lose the dual air spring for a solo air spring (unless you go for coil but i wouldn't on a fork like this). IMO the dual air feels amazing and has endless support in the corners so you aren't just relying on the damper to stop it diving (letting the damper do its real work).0
-
I have to agree with CycloRos about Pikes V Fox. So I'm taking about a different generation of forks, but I just can't get on with the MoCo damping system on the pike.
I also don't trust it, seeing as it's seemingly blown a seal, even when not being ridden on any challenging terrain at all.0 -
What was it that made you dislike it? I'm just interested.YeehaaMcgee wrote:I have to agree with CycloRos about Pikes V Fox. So I'm taking about a different generation of forks, but I just can't get on with the MoCo damping system on the pike.0 -
It's not so much a dislike. I just prefer the feel of Fox dampers.bennett_346 wrote:
What was it that made you dislike it? I'm just interested.YeehaaMcgee wrote:I have to agree with CycloRos about Pikes V Fox. So I'm taking about a different generation of forks, but I just can't get on with the MoCo damping system on the pike.
The damping and spring rate on the pike is very linear, so repeated sudden hits, even small ones will cause the fork to keep packing down further and further, until it's riding on the stops. It's not a rebound speed issue, since setting it any faster would cause the fork to throw you off the trail.
The fox has a seemingly better ability to stay up in it's travel but still absorb impacts. It feels as though it resists movement more and more the further into the travel you get - yet it still offers a good level of small bump compliance.
For fairly gentle trail duties, the Pike is ok, and it does have a greater impression of plushness - it's quicker to respond. But when you let rip, and start hitting things hard and fast, the Fox comes into it's own.
Old marzocchi forks I've owned have behaved a bit more like the Fox as well. - hell, even the 55 did, until it exploded repeatedly, now it's just, well, very bizarre and unpredictable.
The fox also feels more connected to the ground, and inspires a great deal of confidence. The wishy-washy damping on the pike always feels like it's kind of floating somehow, and doesn't sort of "communicate" very well.
I am also pretty annoyed that the Pike has spent much of the last two years as a cycle-path fork on a bike I lent to a friend, and has endured no hardships at all, but it's still manage to fail.
Yes yes, service intervals, blah blah blah, but this is a fork that's only seen about 50 miles of off-road use, and probably less than 200 miles of gentle use since. It was never on the Wolfridge very long, since I bought the bike with immediate intention of fitting the Marzocchi 55 - which later got replaced with a Fox 36.
I've ridden several versions of Pike forks on various bikes, and they've all behaved very similarly - however, the Fox forks I've ridden have admittedly been at the more costly end of the scale. My own 36 is the float RC2 version.0 -
I guess a lot comes down to preference with feel - but I wasn't joking when I said my Tora (318) feels better than the Fox Float RL from that year! Heavier, yes, but a lot stiffer, and the compression damping works very well.0
-
Interesting YeeHaa, i see where you're coming from with the wishy-washy floaty feeling, it's almost a false sense of plushness because you trade off feel for the trail for a bit of a smoother feeling. I did think they were good forks at the time but can't compare with anything i've ridden lately. Like you observed, they do have a very linear spring rate, and it doesn't inspire you to push it hard as it uses the travel fairly ineffectively.
I'd like to try some RC2 Fox forks, never been able to pass judgement on them as i've never set foot on them before but i'm curious to know how they compare to RockShox for interests sake.0 -
Sonic: I'm sure it is down to preference, but my preference is Fox, or Marzocchi.
Having said that though, it would take a miracle to make me open my wallet for another Marzocchi fork, and there's a good chance that the next fork I buy will be a Rockshox one!
Bennet - you may love the Fox RC2 forks. There's quite an interplay between the low and high-speed compression damping (ie, increasing low speed damping will result in slightly heavier high speed damping too, and vice versa), but they allow me to set them up exactly how I've always wanted a fork to behave, which I just haven't been able to with anything else.
I would only ever spend that kind of money on a fork in a moment of lunacy. But I don't regret it.0 -
I am loving the latest Marzocchi offerings, the Marathon LR is the new entry level king (though Recon TK at reduced prices is a great shout).
But I have gone back to the Tora 318 on the Spesh. It works so well, only a Fox RLC or Rev RCT3 would displace it now.0 -
Well, me buying marzocchi would be the equivalent of meeting an ex wife who took everything you had, including the kids, the telly, your car (not mine), the house, and the cheese-knife, and deciding to go down on her, just for the hell of it.
Probably.
Doesn't matter how pleasant she may be, there's a bitterness that just won't rest.0 -
I've been hankering after something where i can adjust the high speed compression too, given the choice i'd run a fork with not much LSC and a heavy amount of HSC, but as you say you really do pay a price for it. But then as long as you can justify it when you're out riding and it brings a smile to your face knowing it's doing it job then it's a choice well made. (So long as the man from northern rock isn't round with a van and loading your flatscreen into it...)YeehaaMcgee wrote:Sonic: I'm sure it is down to preference, but my preference is Fox, or Marzocchi.
Having said that though, it would take a miracle to make me open my wallet for another Marzocchi fork, and there's a good chance that the next fork I buy will be a Rockshox one!
Bennet - you may love the Fox RC2 forks. There's quite an interplay between the low and high-speed compression damping (ie, increasing low speed damping will result in slightly heavier high speed damping too, and vice versa), but they allow me to set them up exactly how I've always wanted a fork to behave, which I just haven't been able to with anything else.
I would only ever spend that kind of money on a fork in a moment of lunacy. But I don't regret it.
Also let me guess, blew the damper on the 55?
I've just came across a pair of 55's on a bargain bucket norco i've got and tempted to do the infamous drilling mod.0 -
Not many forks have adjustable HSC in the 32mm stanchion/sub 150mm travel range. Black Box Moco and RCT3 has dual flow compression and independant HS/LS circuits - but it is not until you get into the Mission Control/RC2 stuff that you get external control.0
-
Yeah, and i think it's a shame really. HSC to me is just as useful on a skinny cross country fork as it is on what someone percieves to be a heavy hitting fork. I like to buy fast and racy bikes (ish) but that doesn't mean they don't get a thrashing on jumps and techy terrain.0
-
You can tweak even basic Moco to be internally adjustable HSC - some guides on MTBR. I guess I liek the flexibiliy, but as I just posted on the other thread, I do think it can be less intuitve. I like adjustment.0
-
Sonic, last time i messed with the moco internals i managed to make the floodgate pin pierce through the plastic body of the cartridge, think i'll sit that one out
Interesting to know though... did not know that.0 -
See, I prefer to have very light HSC damping to make the fork nice and responsive, and a fair bit of LSC to give a nice stable base.
As for the 55, no, I didn't blow the damper. I have blown the air spring several times, and actually destroyed the damper once. Apparently it was fractured.
Now, it's just. well. I'm not sure what it is. Air pressure seems normal, damping appears to function correctly, but for some reason the fork just wants to sit halfway through it's travel when there's any load on it, regardless of the air pressure. And sometimes on the occasional hit, the damper just decides not to dampen anything.0 -
I've got all sorts of mods going on, currently have a fork with Tora 318 uppers, Reba SL lowers, Uturn spring, and an air valve atop the damper to add some ramp up!0
-
supersonic wrote:I've got all sorts of mods going on, currently have a fork with Tora 318 uppers, Reba SL lowers, Uturn spring, and an air valve atop the damper to add some ramp up!
If you can make a franken fork like that work no wonder you like rockshox!0 -
It is somewhat of a problem child. Mines the 55R coil with air preload. With zero psi it's incredibly soft and plush but sags to 50% with the correct spring. With anything over half a psi it becomes rock solid and won't go past half travel.YeehaaMcgee wrote:As for the 55, no, I didn't blow the damper. I have blown the air spring several times, and actually destroyed the damper once. Apparently it was fractured.
Now, it's just. well. I'm not sure what it is. Air pressure seems normal, damping appears to function correctly, but for some reason the fork just wants to sit halfway through it's travel when there's any load on it, regardless of the air pressure. And sometimes on the occasional hit, the damper just decides not to dampen anything.
Still it does what i ask of it fine so it's staying on the jump bike for the time being. I plan to do the drilling mod which marz used to do themselves on warranty claims which turns it into an open bath damper and i'll see how that works.0 -
:shock: You had me following till that.supersonic wrote:an air valve atop the damper to add some ramp up!0
