Being polite?

rick_chasey

t4tomo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The amount of times I've had problems because someone in a car has SUDDENLY decided to let someone either turn onto our road or let oncoming traffic turn right - each time I'm screeching to a halt to try and avoid smashing into them.

You should slow down and stop driving like a c*ck then

Probably, only I'm on the bike .

Usually I'm in the cycle lane on the left, heading along, then a car just ahead lets an oncoming car turn right.

Unsurprisingly, I'm not expecting this, since, y'know, the car as right of way, and I can't see it since I'm heading along at a similar speed as the car. Suddenly I'm confronted with an oncoming car turning right. Disaster.

I've been in a similar position in the car.

I'm in a car looking to turn right. An oncoming car slows down to let me through. I however, can see an oncoming bike behind the car making their way on the bike, so I wait. Cue manic hand gestures, flashing lights from car who tried to let me through. Then finally when the bike's gone I go, only for the car who stopped to head off again since they're irritated I waited.

In both situations, had everyone stuck to the right of way, it'd have been much better for everyone.

EKE_38BPM

Rick Chasey wrote:

t4tomo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The amount of times I've had problems because someone in a car has SUDDENLY decided to let someone either turn onto our road or let oncoming traffic turn right - each time I'm screeching to a halt to try and avoid smashing into them.

You should slow down and stop driving like a c*ck then

Probably, only I'm on the bike .

Usually I'm in the cycle lane on the left, heading along, then a car just ahead lets an oncoming car turn right.

Unsurprisingly, I'm not expecting this, since, y'know, the car as right of way, and I can't see it since I'm heading along at a similar speed as the car. Suddenly I'm confronted with an oncoming car turning right. Disaster.

I've been in a similar position in the car.

I'm in a car looking to turn right. An oncoming car slows down to let me through. I however, can see an oncoming bike behind the car making their way on the bike, so I wait. Cue manic hand gestures, flashing lights from car who tried to let me through. Then finally when the bike's gone I go, only for the car who stopped to head off again since they're irritated I waited.

In both situations, had everyone stuck to the right of way, it'd have been much better for everyone.

The driver gave you the right of way, you didn't take it. No big deal. You did the right thing.
As a cyclist I would have thought that you would realise that on the road, in the real world, few rules are rigid.

When driving, I never flash other road users to tell them to go. I slow or stop and make eye contact. If they get my meaning, they proceed with caution. If they don't I will continue my journey. No harm done in either circumstance.

I'm not perfect, but I think that nearly thirty years as a road user has taught me (in some cases expensively or painfully so) the right thing to do in almost all circumstances. Flashing is not one of them, but giving up the right of way sometimes is.

Origamist

Rick Chasey wrote:

tallmansix wrote:

I've learnt something from watching those videos and the dozens of similar ones in the series, thanks.

Just cycle safely and stick to what you know is safe and learn every day, I already rate everyone on this forum as great cyclists just for being passionate enough to contribute even if they don't agree with me.

I wouldn't rate myself as a great cyclist!

I am often both complacent and over confident. I am also aware of a number of my specific defensive riding failings (riding too quickly for the conditions - usually filtering, not leaving enough thinking/stopping distance etc) and yet, I still find it difficult to break these bad habits.

Norky

EKE_38BPM wrote:

As a cyclist I would have thought that you would realise that on the road, in the real world, few rules are rigid.

When driving, I never flash other road users to tell them to go. I slow or stop and make eye contact. If they get my meaning, they proceed with caution. If they don't I will continue my journey. No harm done in either circumstance.

I'm not perfect, but I think that nearly thirty years as a road user has taught me (in some cases expensively or painfully so) the right thing to do in almost all circumstances. Flashing is not one of them, but giving up the right of way sometimes is.

Well said that man. Successful use of the public highway network is best achieved not by an unswerving (YSWIDT) devotion to the rules, but by a degree of negotiation, tolerance and applied judgement.

Personally when driving I frequently cede right of way and let people out/across. I should stress that I give people the opportunity, but do not encourage them - they are responsible for judging if it is safe to take the opportunity. However I always check behind - if the traffic behind is too close, or I think someone is not paying attention I wont do it. Also if there's a (motor)bike or similar filtering (left or right) I wont do it.

Certainly I wont do it if Rick Chasey is around, because apparently his ability to "read the road" ahead of him is lacking

I have to ask, everyone time you've been in a situation like those described, have you afterwards asked yourself "is there anything I could have done better there?". It doesn't matter if the answer is "no", it's just important to re-evaluate your own behaviour. If you're dead and in the right, you're still dead.

Norky

Crikey, I've just re-read that and it does come across rather po-faced. I sound like a right sanctimonious prick. Oh well.

veronese68

Nobody has mentioned how much difference (if any) the appearance of the person they cede the right of way to makes.

t4tomo

Back to driving I've also noticed an increase in people deliberately "closing the gap", so say you're on a motorway or dual carriage way and about to overtake someone, you check there is a gap to pull into in the lane outside you, you indicate and then the nobend behind accelerates as hard as he can to try to block you from pulling out?!?!

Whatever happened to the car behind just easing along and letting you pull out.

rick_chasey

Norky wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

As a cyclist I would have thought that you would realise that on the road, in the real world, few rules are rigid.

When driving, I never flash other road users to tell them to go. I slow or stop and make eye contact. If they get my meaning, they proceed with caution. If they don't I will continue my journey. No harm done in either circumstance.

I'm not perfect, but I think that nearly thirty years as a road user has taught me (in some cases expensively or painfully so) the right thing to do in almost all circumstances. Flashing is not one of them, but giving up the right of way sometimes is.

Well said that man. Successful use of the public highway network is best achieved not by an unswerving (YSWIDT) devotion to the rules, but by a degree of negotiation, tolerance and applied judgement.

Personally when driving I frequently cede right of way and let people out/across. I should stress that I give people the opportunity, but do not encourage them - they are responsible for judging if it is safe to take the opportunity. However I always check behind - if the traffic behind is too close, or I think someone is not paying attention I wont do it. Also if there's a (motor)bike or similar filtering (left or right) I wont do it.

Certainly I wont do it if Rick Chasey is around, because apparently his ability to "read the road" ahead of him is lacking

I have to ask, everyone time you've been in a situation like those described, have you afterwards asked yourself "is there anything I could have done better there?". It doesn't matter if the answer is "no", it's just important to re-evaluate your own behaviour. If you're dead and in the right, you're still dead.

For sure, I always avoid the accident. Doesn't mean that because I'm alive and not injured everything went correctly, right?

I shouldn't have to tense every time I pass a t-junction just incase a car decides to let an oncoming car turn right, despite the right of way.

We all have our own bad habits. I have a habit of cycling fast on the wrong side of the road to pass stationary traffic and squeeze through very tight spaces with oncoming traffic.

I see giving way when it's not necessary (and when they haven't considered ALL affected road users, rather than just the person they're giving way to) as a similar bad habit.

Norky

Rick Chasey wrote:

For sure, I always avoid the accident. Doesn't mean that because I'm alive and not injured everything went correctly, right?

I shouldn't have to tense every time I pass a t-junction just incase a car decides to let an oncoming car turn right, despite the right of way.

Aye, fair enough. As I said I don't let other people through/across if there's a bike behind me, for that reason. Other people (drivers) shouldn't do it either.

EKE_38BPM

Rick Chasey wrote:

I shouldn't have to tense every time I pass a t-junction just incase a car decides to let an oncoming car turn right, despite the right of way.

You're right, you shouldn't have to tense every time you pass a t-junction. You should do a shoulder check to see what the car behind is doing, you should look down the side road to see if anything is about to emerge and you should look at oncoming traffic to see if anything is looking to turn right.
Maybe my taking the correct observations allows me to be more relaxed than you are?

Look
Assess
Decide
Act

rick_chasey

Look, I'm exaggerating for effect.

I make a conscious effort to be very relaxed on the bike, and by and large I'll let stuff slide. No gestures, no getting angry - if people want to push through or turn when they should then fine. I'm not one to not avoid an accident or only just avoid an accident to make a point. I don't care enough.

I spot stuff ahead way more than most cyclists and react accordingly - I've been cycling on the road since I was 10, and probably have around 10,000 bike journeys under my belt.

I just get midly irritated when people drive badly under the guise of being a 'good driver' for letting people through. Just stick to the right of way, and stop being a busy body.

EKE_38BPM

Rick Chasey wrote:

I've been cycling on the road since I was 10, and probably have around 10,000 bike journeys under my belt.

If you want to play the experience card, I've been cycling on the road since I was 7 and I've been driving since you were in nappies. I've also been a professional driver and used to ride a motor bike.

Yay, I win?!

rick_chasey

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I've been cycling on the road since I was 10, and probably have around 10,000 bike journeys under my belt.

If you want to play the experience card, I've been cycling on the road since I was 7 and I've been driving since you were in nappies. I've also been a professional driver and used to ride a motor bike.

Yay, I win?!

notsoblue

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I've been cycling on the road since I was 10, and probably have around 10,000 bike journeys under my belt.

If you want to play the experience card, I've been cycling on the road since I was 7 and I've been driving since you were in nappies. I've also been a professional driver and used to ride a motor bike.

Yay, I win?!

I think this emphasizes the most important thing to consider when you're using the road; that people have different riding/driving styles and you can't really expect them to behave in a manner that you find predictable.

suzyb

Nevermind Rick, when all cars are computer controlled and drive themselves there will be no more of this human politeness nonsense

daviesee

suzyb wrote:

Nevermind Rick, when all cars are computer controlled and drive themselves there will be no more of this human politeness nonsense

Good point about the future.
All the current tests are being done in relatively controlled enviroments.
How will the computer controlled cars cope with city centre driving?
Peds stepping out, cycles passing left and right. Oh, the unpredictability of it all :twisted:

Does a computer driven car allow for RLJing?

suzyb

If (ped.onroad) {
   turn (ped.direction)
   accelerate
}

If (ped.notrunover) {
   reverse (ped.direction)
}

goto 1

desweller

Self-driving cars are old news.

My great-uncle had a self-drive vehicle. It ran exclusively on renewable fuels, was largely self-repairing and the waste products were biologically degradeable. It would even take him home from the pub when he was pissed.

He was called Neddy.

iclestu

DesWeller wrote:

Self-driving cars are old news.

My great-uncle had a self-drive vehicle. It ran exclusively on renewable fuels, was largely self-repairing and the waste products were biologically degradeable. It would even take him home from the pub when he was pissed.

He was called Neddy.

jejv

notsoblue wrote:

I think this emphasizes the most important thing to consider when you're using the road; that people have different riding/driving styles and you can't really expect them to behave in a manner that you find predictable.

Absolutely. If someone in front of you behaves in a way that seems weird or stupid, back off. Maybe they are weird and stupid, so best to keep away from them, or maybe they know something that you don't, and it's best to give them some margin to deal with whatever the problem is - that you don't understand.

Sesquepidilian

tallmansix wrote:

I'd say same as with driving, never change the natural flow of traffic by letting somebody out, it causes unexpected things that may cause accidents as some people get the wrong message or don't know that you have decided to change the rules at that instance.

It annoys me sometimes when I driver gives me right of way when I'm not entitled, it can put pressure on me to complete a maneuver before I'm happy it is totally safe.

Totally dude. really gets my goat when someone gives way totally unnecessarily. I had someone stop while on a roundabout to let me out and I was like WTF ?

When driving it really peeves me when people who have right of way waive a thanks. I'm like;

"Don't thank me!! I'm not giving way because I want to!!"

daviesee

jejv wrote:

Absolutely. If someone in front of you behaves in a way that seems weird or stupid, back off. Maybe they are weird and stupid, so best to keep away from them, or maybe they know something that you don't, and it's best to give them some margin to deal with whatever the problem is - that you don't understand.

Indeed.
I always try to keep this in mind whilst on the road.
Quite often turns out that whilst I am cursing, they do know something that I don't - usually something unseen ahead.

First.Aspect

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I shouldn't have to tense every time I pass a t-junction just incase a car decides to let an oncoming car turn right, despite the right of way.

You're right, you shouldn't have to tense every time you pass a t-junction. You should do a shoulder check to see what the car behind is doing, you should look down the side road to see if anything is about to emerge and you should look at oncoming traffic to see if anything is looking to turn right.
Maybe my taking the correct observations allows me to be more relaxed than you are?

Look
Assess
Decide
Act

Or put another way, there is no such thing as "right of way". There is only "priority". To think in terms of "right of way" suggests the presumption that nothing will get in your way. "Priority" means you can proceed if there is nothing in the way. Subtle difference.

If you aren't tense passing a T-junction around slow moving traffic, you need to take up mountain biking. You just don't know when someone will take a random decision with one of the controls of their vehicle - trust me I know just how inexplicable heavy machine operators' behaviour can be.

Norky

suzyb wrote:

If (ped.onroad) {
   turn (ped.direction)
   accelerate
}

If (ped.notrunover) {
   reverse (ped.direction)
}

goto 1

That's evil. Truly horrible....




...you used a "goto". You monster!

Origamist

First Aspect wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I shouldn't have to tense every time I pass a t-junction just incase a car decides to let an oncoming car turn right, despite the right of way.

You're right, you shouldn't have to tense every time you pass a t-junction. You should do a shoulder check to see what the car behind is doing, you should look down the side road to see if anything is about to emerge and you should look at oncoming traffic to see if anything is looking to turn right.
Maybe my taking the correct observations allows me to be more relaxed than you are?

Look
Assess
Decide
Act

Or put another way, there is no such thing as "right of way". There is only "priority". To think in terms of "right of way" suggests the presumption that nothing will get in your way. "Priority" means you can proceed if there is nothing in the way. Subtle difference.

If you aren't tense passing a T-junction around slow moving traffic, you need to take up mountain biking. You just don't know when someone will take a random decision with one of the controls of their vehicle - trust me I know just how inexplicable heavy machine operators' behaviour can be.

Quite - I wasn't going to explicitly make the point as I'm already a pernickety prat, but "right of way", as I recall, relates to which class of road user (vehicle/rider/pedestrian) has the right to use which part of the carriageway, bridlepath, etc