Forks for 2006/7 prototype orange 5

LAUNCH69

Hi there,
I recently started a thread about a hardtail frame suitable for natural riding in the Lakes, maybe Scotland with half an eye on the red run at Fort Bill.
However, I got a little excited in the classifieds and got this instead: :oops:

viewtopic.php?f=40050&t=12859155

Hopefully it should be more than capable of joining me cartwheeling down hills . . .

I have done some internet research and the HA should be about 68.5 with 140mm forks or 67 with 160mm.

I am looking for advice on forks and geometry.

Bearing in mind that this will be quite a big departure for me-
Current ride is a rockhopper with 100mm up fromt and a HA of 70.5 . . . .

Any opinions/guidance greatly appreciated.
Si

styxd

Budget?

Obviously Orange 5's are designed around 140mm forks, so I'd be looking at Rock Shox Pikes or Sektors if on a budget.

Or the new Marzocchi 44's or Rock Shox Revelations if you've got a bit more cash

LAUNCH69

Frame sort of wiped out all my cash but I've got some decent gear that I upgraded on the 'hopper to transfer over.
I will be looking to get the forks on finance. I am looking long term, so I don't mind if i spend quite a bit, as long as they are a decent investment.

bjj.andy.w

If you are prepared to invest quite a bit how about the Bos deville's reduced to 140mm travel ?
Bike rader review here:
http://m.bikeradar.com/gear/category/co ... k-11-39788

styxd

those bos forks are supposedley decent, I think most new forks are though to be fair. It does say theres a 140mm version available aswell.

I'd probably get some marzocchi 44's apparently they're back to the good old days. Great performance and reliability so should see you right for years to come.

lawman

devilles are a major investment and any 44 thats worth getting is going to be £600 +, afaik the one to get is the rc3 ti. something like a decent revelation would be my choice given the cost of the frame, the OP hasn't given a budget, but I would imagine a rev RLT would be a great fork for it.

LAUNCH69

Thanks for the guidance.
I don't mind spending up to £700 - going to spread out the cost over 2 years . . . .
Do you think a rev would be a good comprimise at 150mm?

LAUNCH69

In relation to the above post i was thinking of HA - I kniw the current one is 67.

DodgeT

Merlin had revs for 315, all the fork you'd need. I wouldn't want to be paying for forks for 2 years.

mrmonkfinger

lawman wrote:

any 44 thats worth getting is going to be £600 +, afaik the one to get is the rc3 ti. something like a decent revelation would be my choice given the cost of the frame, the OP hasn't given a budget, but I would imagine a rev RLT would be a great fork for it.

+potato for RS Revelation, great fork

LAUNCH69

I am needing finance though. . .
Does Merlin do finance on parts, I thought they only did it in complete bikes.

cooldad

I'm sure if they do it'll be on their website.

supersonic

Head angle is not going to drop 1.5 degrees with an extra 20mm - more like 0.75-1.

LAUNCH69

When it comes to the HA I was going off the info I found.
Does anyone have any idea of geo for a 2006 orange 5?
Also I have looked at Merlin and there is no mention of finance on their site apart from the cycle to work scheme.

So I have suggestions for RS revelations as the forks - best model in the range for bang for buck? And where (with finance) to get them?

supersonic

68 degrees with a 520mm fork (c2a) as far as I know.

Revelations are a great buy, but some good offers on Sektors at Merlin at the minute.

What axle do you require?

LAUNCH69

I am looking for a through axle fork.
I currently have some flow rims on hope2 evos, so I am completely open to any axle size (using adapters).
My main points for the forks are:
Decent -I do not want to be pining after an upgrade after a few rides.
Travel - Enough to be a little forgiving whilst pushing on descents on British mountains.
Price is subjective - I don't mind spending more, if their performance means that I use them for years.

DodgeT

Don't think you'd go wrong with either revs or sektors. Can't comment on sektors personally except reviews have read are good, but there's a few of us with revs and we all rate them.
Finance - credit card? If you don't have one, sign up for one, buy, then chop it up.

Or, not sure if bike discount de do finance on some products.

lawman

tbh I would be tempted to go for the sektors on merlin, the 20mm through-axle solo air fork can be had for £270 with 10% off atm, am tempted by them myself, not been a fan of dual air since I got my 32 floats, it just seems more of a faff than it needs to be.

LAUNCH69

I have been looking at you recommended forks, and am definitely leaning towards the revs.
I am trying to make my mind up on whether the RCT3s are significantly better than the RLTs.
I am new to decent forks, are the RCT3s worth the extra or will I simply not notice?

bennett_346

lawman wrote:

tbh I would be tempted to go for the sektors on merlin, the 20mm through-axle solo air fork can be had for £270 with 10% off atm, am tempted by them myself, not been a fan of dual air since I got my 32 floats, it just seems more of a faff than it needs to be.

Once set up right i've found dual air feels much better than solo air, mainly for the extra support in corners. My old solo air forks seemed to rely heavily on the damper to keep the forks upright in corners and eventually packed in when the corners got really rough from being overloaded. The dual air seems to have the effect of doing the work of keeping the forks upright instead of the damper and letting the damper do a better job of dealing with the roughness.

I'll grant you it's a right PITA to set up though.

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

tbh I would be tempted to go for the sektors on merlin, the 20mm through-axle solo air fork can be had for £270 with 10% off atm, am tempted by them myself, not been a fan of dual air since I got my 32 floats, it just seems more of a faff than it needs to be.

Once set up right i've found dual air feels much better than solo air, mainly for the extra support in corners. My old solo air forks seemed to rely heavily on the damper to keep the forks upright in corners and eventually packed in when the corners got really rough from being overloaded. The dual air seems to have the effect of doing the work of keeping the forks upright instead of the damper and letting the damper do a better job of dealing with the roughness.

I'll grant you it's a right PITA to set up though.

Now thats one of the traits I hate about the revelations, and what I love about the FIT RLC damper in my 32's. the low speed compression dial on the fox's makes a big difference, just the other day I was riding some seriously steep stuff in scotland, so just added a few clicks of compression and I knew exactly where I was and what the forks were doing, and they felt incredible. I have never ever had that kinda feeling with the rev's. Fox's have a serious amount of progression, or at least the floats do, and they feel way, way better than any set of RS forks I've tried, and its not down to setup, I know how dual air works and in fact, the recommended settings dialed in by TFtuned when I had them serviced was even worse than what I managed on my own.

the dual air is a royal PITA to setup, and frankly the motion control damper is just plain pants imo, its ok at dealing with either end of the spectrum, I.e its ok at fully open, but would I say its compression adjustable? No I wouldn't its just a lockout as far as I'm concerned. The RCT3 is more like the fox's but give me a completely independant low speed compression dial with proper detents over motion controls glorified lockout and over-complicated setup. Seems even RS agree with me as they won't be offering dual air on alot of forks for 2013, and about time it is too.

LAUNCH69

The problem is that Fox forks are CONSIDERABLY more expensive . . . :shock:
Would Rct3s be the best choice or would RLTs suffice?
I like the idea of kashmina coatings and fit dampers BUT it seems to double the price of the fork . ..

bennett_346

lawman wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

tbh I would be tempted to go for the sektors on merlin, the 20mm through-axle solo air fork can be had for £270 with 10% off atm, am tempted by them myself, not been a fan of dual air since I got my 32 floats, it just seems more of a faff than it needs to be.

Once set up right i've found dual air feels much better than solo air, mainly for the extra support in corners. My old solo air forks seemed to rely heavily on the damper to keep the forks upright in corners and eventually packed in when the corners got really rough from being overloaded. The dual air seems to have the effect of doing the work of keeping the forks upright instead of the damper and letting the damper do a better job of dealing with the roughness.

I'll grant you it's a right PITA to set up though.

the dual air is a royal PITA to setup, and frankly the motion control damper is just plain pants imo, its ok at dealing with either end of the spectrum, I.e its ok at fully open, but would I say its compression adjustable? No I wouldn't its just a lockout as far as I'm concerned.

I've never rode fox's before except the open bath flavour, so i can't pass comment, but it's interesting that you found that. I would kind of agree that the moco seems to act more just take take the pedal bob out at various degrees as opposed to work as a true compression adjust, but it hasn't let me down yet. When i'm out riding on smooth and rough trails alike i barely feel a thing from the front, they're just buttery smooth, yet when i stand up to pedal again along flat or uphill having changed none of the settings they remove virtually all the effort i feel would have been lost by suspension forks' activity (as compared to my old moco pikes), staying upright and responding to bumps on the ground, not input from the rider.

I feel this is a combination of the dual air spring and the motion control.

supersonic

No I wouldn't its just a lockout as far as I'm concerned

No offence, but that is crap, the range of adjustment on all Moco forks I have goes from fully open, to fully closed, and with floodgate you set the high speed blow off.

I think you are struggling with set up. Granted it is harder, but when you dial it in, the system works very well. RLC FIT does work better in some places, but it struggles with small bump response - even thr#e Kashima coating hasn't solved these issues. BB Moco takes thinmgs even further.

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

lawman wrote:

tbh I would be tempted to go for the sektors on merlin, the 20mm through-axle solo air fork can be had for £270 with 10% off atm, am tempted by them myself, not been a fan of dual air since I got my 32 floats, it just seems more of a faff than it needs to be.

Once set up right i've found dual air feels much better than solo air, mainly for the extra support in corners. My old solo air forks seemed to rely heavily on the damper to keep the forks upright in corners and eventually packed in when the corners got really rough from being overloaded. The dual air seems to have the effect of doing the work of keeping the forks upright instead of the damper and letting the damper do a better job of dealing with the roughness.

I'll grant you it's a right PITA to set up though.

the dual air is a royal PITA to setup, and frankly the motion control damper is just plain pants imo, its ok at dealing with either end of the spectrum, I.e its ok at fully open, but would I say its compression adjustable? No I wouldn't its just a lockout as far as I'm concerned.

I've never rode fox's before except the open bath flavour, so i can't pass comment, but it's interesting that you found that. I would kind of agree that the moco seems to act more just take take the pedal bob out at various degrees as opposed to work as a true compression adjust, but it hasn't let me down yet. When i'm out riding on smooth and rough trails alike i barely feel a thing from the front, they're just buttery smooth, yet when i stand up to pedal again along flat or uphill having changed none of the settings they remove virtually all the effort i feel would have been lost by suspension forks' activity (as compared to my old moco pikes), staying upright and responding to bumps on the ground, not input from the rider.

I feel this is a combination of the dual air spring and the motion control.

The thing I really dislike is how the lockout/compression on older style, pre rct3 RS forks is all one thing, personally I'd quite like to leave the low speed compression dial alone once ive set it right. Sonnic, you can't do this on an RS fork because its ni-on impossible to find exactly where you before you locked the fork out. On fox its easy, separate low speed and lockout completely independant. The MoCo damper is not all its cracked up to be. So yes it goes all the way from fully open to closed, in use unless you have way to much time in a ride to spend fiddling with dials, its best use is a straight lockout, and anything in between can be used ifyou honestly have time to find the right position of the dial to the n'th degree.

On a basic fork its great for the budget, but if you want to spread cost and don't mind doing so, go for the best you can afford. some deals can be found on fox, just gotta find em, think merlin have some atm

bennett_346

Sorry but disagree there pal. I know exactly where to put it back to after i've had it on lockout, despite the lack of detent. If anything i prefer to visually see where it is instead of having to stand there counting clicks, and i can do it on the fly if needed without stopping, which i can't see myself doing with a round dial that clicks.

Nor can i see myself remembering what setting i'm currently on should i need to check mid trail.

supersonic

Sonnic, you can't do this on an RS fork because its ni-on impossible to find exactly where you before you locked the fork out.

Never, ever had that problem. Granted, I don't fully lock out often - in fact you set it up well and you very often don't have to.

On/off lockout is the turnkey system, this is a whole different kettle of fish.

lawman

All this fork stuff seems very personal!!

I can see where you're coming from, but for me a clear detent is much more useful than infinite adjustment, exception in the form of dropper seatpost travel. For me, if I have to take my eyes of the road/trail/whatever to adjust something, its not really worth it. Its just one of those things that makes no sense to me, why not just give it a clear detent, it makes no odds if you look at it or just do it on the fly, you know its gonna be there next time and in exactly the same place it was before. My MoCo lever has only ever been locked or open, cos in between and trying to get it right in position and having to visually check and think its in the right place was just doing my head in. Indexed gears for crying out loud, when was the last time you thought, damn I wsh I was still on them old friction shifters, need I say more about the reasons and a clear knowledge of whats going on and not needing to check!

I know the difference and what does what on a rockshox fork. I had turnkey on my old toras, I have MoCo on my rev's and RLC on the 32's. Like I say its down to preference but IMO, the system would be better if it were more like the fox adjusters. And as Yeehaa has said in the other fork thread, Fox's ride alot nicer too

supersonic

Wanna lend my tora ;-)

You are right though, it is personal on how we set up and how we like adjustment. Fox seem easier to get going quick: RS take more work. Model for model. With RS getting more expensive, it is not always easy to say they are the default choice at certain price points, and no doubt they have tried to simplify things with the new solo air and RCT3 carts - to me is a bloody shame!

lawman

supersonic wrote:

Wanna lend my tora ;-)

You are right though, it is personal on how we set up and how we like adjustment. Fox seem easier to get going quick: RS take more work. Model for model. With RS getting more expensive, it is not always easy to say they are the default choice at certain price points, and no doubt they have tried to simplify things with the new solo air and RCT3 carts - to me is a bloody shame!

OH HELL NO! jeez my 318 coil u-turns of 2007 were like a sloppy cow pat! :P

RS take alot of work and from experience need just as much servicing, if not more than Fox, admittedly non-kashima forks can have stanchion wear issues, but overall my 2011 32 RLC has been much more reliable and better performing than my 2010 revelation race. Both at slightly different parts of budget scale, but the comparison is still valid. RS have used solo air in their DH/FR forks for years, if ever you needed the benefits of dual air, surely its then! Tbh im surprised the dual air forks have lasted as long as they have.

supersonic

TBH I am surprised they didn't implement them further up the scale - but they do seem to be aiming at simpler set up across the board. MTBR modders are plotting dual air in the new stuff, I do think it is a great system if you have some patience.

Seems to be a lot of variation in reliability, all my RS forks have never blown a seal!