The Greg66 double shuffle

jeepie

Amazing.

You actually can change gear on the front and rear at the same time and the chain doesn't come off. Felt totally weird when wanting to yomp to the big ring simultaneously changing to small sprockets on the back, but the chain didn't come off and it felt good.

Come on folks give it a try? Or is everyone in London doing this already?

rick_chasey

For as long as I've been riding a bike with gears.

SimonAH

Phew, I thought this was going to be Gay69 at it again.......

daviesee

Been doing a double shift since I first got a compact chainset in 2008.

rolf_f

Did you know that you can also operate both brakes at the same time and you can also move both hands from hoods to drops and vice versa at the same time too?!

Maybe London is a bit backward if this is the latest thing there.......

daviesee

Jeepie wrote:

Amazing.

You actually can change gear on the front and rear at the same time and the chain doesn't come off. Felt totally weird when wanting to yomp to the big ring simultaneously changing to small sprockets on the back, but the chain didn't come off and it felt good.

Come on folks give it a try? Or is everyone in London doing this already?

Isn't moving to the big ring at the front and simultaneously the small cogs at the back a massive change in ratios :?: :?
Double shifting on a compact is usually the other way round to keep the ratios close. ie to smaller ring at front & smaller cogs at back or to larger ring at front & larger cogs at back

veronese68

SimonAH wrote:

Phew, I thought this was going to be Gay69 at it again.......

So did I. That was all a bit odd.

jeepie

Ya mickey takers....

I didn't know you were supposed to add water to Dettol either, so used to apply it neat. When my missus treated some road rash and put water in Dettol and it went milky I was bemused by what she was doing, but it didn't sting nearly as bad as when I treated my cuts!

Just saying you learn something new every day.....

veronese68

Jeepie wrote:

Ya mickey takers....

But surely you already knew this bit.

jonny_trousers

I'm ashamed to admit I didn't know about this and was actually going to post a thread asking if it is possible a couple of weeks ago. In my defence, the only bike I ever owned prior to my present one that had more than one front ring would have exploded if you even thought about shifting more than one cog every minute.

While I'm making an arse of myself I'll put another question to you: do those of you who commute on road bikes swap across the front rings regularly? It's only recently that I have been reading up on the evils of crossing the chain, but it seems so awkward on the stop/start commute. I guess with intelligent shifting it's not a problem, right?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

While I'm making an ars* of myself I'll put another question to you: do those of you who commute on road bikes swap across the front rings regularly? It's only recently that I have been reading up on the evils of crossing the chain, but it seems so awkward on the stop/start commute. I guess with intelligent shifting it's not a problem, right?

London is almost all pancake flat, so no need to use the small ring at the front.

EKE_38BPM

Rick Chasey wrote:

For as long as I've been riding a bike with gears.

+1

jonny_trousers

Greg66 wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

While I'm making an ars* of myself I'll put another question to you: do those of you who commute on road bikes swap across the front rings regularly? It's only recently that I have been reading up on the evils of crossing the chain, but it seems so awkward on the stop/start commute. I guess with intelligent shifting it's not a problem, right?

London is almost all pancake flat, so no need to use the small ring at the front.

Cheers. That's what I intuitively thought prior to reading someone at Road Beginners saying that as a general rule, anything below 17mph you should be on the small ring. To be honest I'm not really sure what the largest cog on the back I use is when riding on the big ring in town, but I doubt it will be either of the two largest.

*edited for clarity

SimonAH

Seriously? I almost never use the small ring.

My cadence is kept north of 70 on the big ring and generally on the smaller half of the cassette. Perhaps I'm doing it all wrong.

daviesee

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

I'm ashamed to admit I didn't know about this and was actually going to post a thread asking if it is possible a couple of weeks ago. In my defence, the only bike I ever owned prior to my present one that had more than one front ring would have exploded if you even thought about shifting more than one cog every minute.

While I'm making an ars* of myself I'll put another question to you: do those of you who commute on road bikes swap across the front rings regularly? It's only recently that I have been reading up on the evils of crossing the chain, but it seems so awkward on the stop/start commute. I guess with intelligent shifting it's not a problem, right?

A bit hillier here but anyway....
I never use the 2 largest rear cogs when in the big ring, nor do I use the smallest 2 rear cogs when in the small ring.
Everything else is fair game.

optimisticbiker

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

While I'm making an ars* of myself I'll put another question to you: do those of you who commute on road bikes swap across the front rings regularly? It's only recently that I have been reading up on the evils of crossing the chain, but it seems so awkward on the stop/start commute. I guess with intelligent shifting it's not a problem, right?

London is almost all pancake flat, so no need to use the small ring at the front.

Cheers. That's what I intuitively thought prior to reading someone at Road Beginners saying that as a general rule, anything below 17mph you should be on the small ring. To be honest I'm not really sure what the largest cog on the back I use is when riding on the big ring in town, but I doubt it will be either of the two largest.

*edited for clarity

The thing that matters is cadence, since for efficiency you want to keep that as constant and as near optimum for the rider. Generally thats around 90 rpm. Assuming a 52/39 + 11-25 thats 27mph on the 52/13 and 17mph on the 52/21 (2 up/2 down) @ 90rpm. On a compact 50/34 @ 90rpm thats 26mph/16mph. Unless you're really pootling (in which case it matters not whether you either pedal slower or use the small ring), or you don't have the torque to get away from the lights in the bigger/biggest cog, then, as Greg66 says, you don't need the small ring. There's only one hill on my commute for which I sometimes need to use the biggest cog so normally I stay in the big ring when on the road bike. On the commuter, which is much heavier, I do drop to the middle 42T ring on the hill.

DavidBelcher

Jeepie wrote:

Amazing.

You actually can change gear on the front and rear at the same time and the chain doesn't come off. Felt totally weird when wanting to yomp to the big ring simultaneously changing to small sprockets on the back, but the chain didn't come off and it felt good.

Come on folks give it a try? Or is everyone in London doing this already?

If you've got Modolo Morphos levers and are fairly dextrous, you can brake at the same time as doing all that!

David

DavidBelcher

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

For as long as I've been riding a bike with gears.

+1

I like it. I was going to ask "is that an actual jersey?" then saw that the photo was linked to the Foska website wheich answers that one nicely.

David

EKE_38BPM

DavidBelcher wrote:

Jeepie wrote:

Amazing.

You actually can change gear on the front and rear at the same time and the chain doesn't come off. Felt totally weird when wanting to yomp to the big ring simultaneously changing to small sprockets on the back, but the chain didn't come off and it felt good.

Come on folks give it a try? Or is everyone in London doing this already?

If you've got Modolo Morphos levers and are fairly dextrous, you can brake at the same time as doing all that!

David

I could do it with my old Shimano Soras. I never thought of it as anything special. I thought everybody did it.

I could even brake (front and rear) and double shift simultaneously when I had down tube shifters.
OK, now I'm lying.

bigmat

Most London hills are potential big ring climbs (on a compact anyway) but I do sometimes use the 34, particularly on the commuter as its a bit heavier and I usually have a backpack. Livingthe wrong side of Crystal Palace probably doesn't help! I think chainline issues are overrated - with a bit of front mech trimming I can run big front / small rear and vice versa. The real trick is to get in the chainring that gives you the biggest range of usable gears at the back so you don't need to make a big jump by front shifting at a critical time.

roger_merriman

On the mountain bike I would, since you'll hare down a hill, to a steep climb up so brake, shift a chainring, and snick down a few cogs. on a the road I doubt the gradient would chance quickly enough to need to do that.

around london FG/SS is quite okay, used to manage with 80 inch and full paniers.

greg66_tri_v2.0

BigMat wrote:

I think chainline issues are overrated - with a bit of front mech trimming I can run big front / small rear and vice versa.

I understand chainline issues to be wear, rather than rubbing. The chain angle causes it and the teeth to wear significantly more quickly than usual.

bigmat

Greg66 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

I think chainline issues are overrated - with a bit of front mech trimming I can run big front / small rear and vice versa.

I understand chainline issues to be wear, rather than rubbing. The chain angle causes it and the teeth to wear significantly more quickly than usual.

You could be right. It tends to be the sprockets in the middle of the cassette that wear out first for me though. :?

greg66_tri_v2.0

BigMat wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

I think chainline issues are overrated - with a bit of front mech trimming I can run big front / small rear and vice versa.

I understand chainline issues to be wear, rather than rubbing. The chain angle causes it and the teeth to wear significantly more quickly than usual.

You could be right. It tends to be the sprockets in the middle of the cassette that wear out first for me though. :?

Hmm. Me too. In fact it tends to be the one I spend most of my time on. Really don't know why I drag the other 9 around on London sometimes.

Gay69

I love it when Greg slips it into my big ring, it's even better when he reaches round and plays with both of my shifters.

itboffin

Gay69 wrote:

I love it when Greg slips it into my big ring, it's even better when he reaches round and plays with both of my shifters.

And I thought I was the only one, I feel so cheated

jejv

lost_in_thought wrote:

Greg T wrote:

He dropped to the little ring in town.....
I thought that was not the done thing? I bet he wears brown shoes with a dark suit.

And wears a hat indoors.
I mean really. Poor show, what what what.

Attica wrote:

Stick it in my big ring and pretend that it don't hurt

I have a 44-32-22 triple. I've been on a few club runs where I've been in a bigger ring than immaculately Assos-clad roadies.

If I ran a bike shop, I'd be asking my prospective customers what their power output was, and at what rpm. Or how fast they go, in what gear. And where they cycle, and where they live. Do they never expect to leave the Smoke, or do they fancy doing Fred ?

Gearing should be as much - or more - a part of choosing a bike as frame size, or seat height.

If you are one of the folks that sees 30mph on the clock on the Embankment, and then thinks "I need to MTFU", then off-the-shelf roadbikes are for you. Though you could still consider whether a 49 or a 52 might be just a bit better [Edit: than your 50T].

But for lesser mortals, who are pleased to clock 25 on the flat, a better starting point would be 46-34-24 x 14-25.

Rolf F wrote:

Maybe London is a bit backward if this is the latest thing there.......

Well, the Southerners did take a long time to catch on to stuff like railways, electric lights, and steam turbines.

daviesee

jejv wrote:

I have a 44-32-22 triple. I've been on a few club runs where I've been in a bigger ring than immaculately Assos-clad roadies.

Rolf F wrote:

Maybe London is a bit backward if this is the latest thing there.......

Well, the Southerners did take a long time to catch on to stuff like railways, electric lights, and steam turbines.

Being on a big ring at the front counts for nowt if you are on a big ring at the back. And a 44 is not a big ring.

The second part? -

jejv

daviesee wrote:

jejv wrote:

I have a 44-32-22 triple. I've been on a few club runs where I've been in a bigger ring than immaculately Assos-clad roadies.

Being on a big ring at the front counts for nowt if you are on a big ring at the back. And a 44 is not a big ring.

Who's counting ?

I didn't say it was big, I said it was bigger. 44T is clearly not a big ring.

If I look at the bikes parked outside our office with more than one ring, most are not on the biggest ring. And this is in Cambridge, bordering on fenland! Most are on 38-42.

If the big ring isn't the normal ring on the flat, seems to me that the gearing is way off.

daviesee

jejv wrote:

Who's counting ?

I didn't say it was big, I said it was bigger. 44T is clearly not a big ring.

If I look at the bikes parked outside our office with more than one ring, most are not on the biggest ring. And this is in Cambridge, bordering on fenland! Most are on 38-42.

If the big ring isn't the normal ring on the flat, seems to me that the gearing is way off.

Not arguing. Just saying....
For example, some people have different techniques. I always start in the small ring (34x15), move to the big ring (50x15) once rolling then go smaller at the back (50x11) as I accelerate. Then move back down the ratios and to the small ring when stopping. It just makes getting rolling easier, sometimes I have an uphill start and I don't feel the need for a sprint start.
Just cos a bike is parked in a small ring doesn't mean it is used in a small gear all the time 8)

jejv

JonGinge wrote:

Andy Schleck wrote:

If only somebody had told me

I think you want this thread: viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12774701

If you want to accelerate rapidly, you don't want to be changing rings in the middle. Either you have to back off, or you risk jamming the chain. So you might be better off pulling away on the big ring and the 25 or 23, depending what works with your gear setup.

Wouldn't want to keep trundling along with the chain crossed over, but the drivetrain is there to make our lives easier, not the other way round.