Silly question time: Why no Mountain TT's in the grand tours

pinno
pinno Posts: 52,105
edited June 2012 in Pro race
Surely it would be a leveller. The last 'pure' climber to win the Tour was the late Marco Pantani in '98 and that was only because half the field was kicked out, before that, Delgado in '88.

Doesn't have to be brutally long, just enough to balance the time gains made in a flat(ish) TT. Maybe it would liven the tours up.
I thought The Giro was excellent this year but Joaquin R missed out to a pre-determined Hesjedal effort. If Rodriguez had an extra 40 secs having gained it from a Mountain TT, the final time trial would not have been such a foregone conclusion and what a finale it would have been.
seanoconn - gruagach craic!
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Comments

  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Didn't they do a TT up Ventoux once in the tour?! Not sure what effect it had on the overall... perhaps too much. Anyone? I'd love to see one up another classic, but I suppose it might be viewed as a 'waste' of a good mountain.

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    there has been just not often

    1996 won by berzin and lance v ullrich 2000 and sumfink
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,550
    Generally because too many TTs is boring, and if you make one a mountain TT you effectively give the tour straight to a climber.
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  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    Wasn't the Alpe d'Huez one the last TdF mountain ITT, 04 maybe?
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    wiki fu=lance v ullrich 2001
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,793
    dougzz wrote:
    Wasn't the Alpe d'Huez one the last TdF mountain ITT, 04 maybe?

    overcomming
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • ms_tree
    ms_tree Posts: 1,405
    The Tour did one up Alpe d'Huez and the Giro did one on Plans de Corones(?) I think it was on unmade roads but can't remember except Pellizotti won it. Oh and the Giro did one at Oropa which Bruseghin won (PTP to me!).
    'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
    Neil Gaiman
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    mididoctors wrote:
    dougzz wrote:
    Wasn't the Alpe d'Huez one the last TdF mountain ITT, 04 maybe?
    overcomming
    That's in the DVD player right now, but with all the footie and the Suisse it's not getting played.
  • Rule74Please
    Rule74Please Posts: 307
    Basically 2 reasons.

    1. the big fat testers hate riding uphill Apparently there is no fun in it

    2. last time in '04 the crowd on the Aple was estimated to be over 500,000 people and it was madness from the bottom to the barriers. So in a era of H & S I doubt they will risk it again.
    Don't know the Rules?

    http://www.velominati.com/blog/the-rules/
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,105
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Generally because too many TTs is boring, and if you make one a mountain TT you effectively give the tour straight to a climber.

    If say a 40k TT results in 2 min gaps between climbers and decent TTers, then surely a short mountain TT (barriers all the way, I get your point Rule 74) can have an effect. Like the Paris Nice final stage for example, its not huge but its enough. Roche won it twice (I think) on the last day.
    The fatties can get eliminated for all I care. I know Cav is quick and he's ours, sort of, but there are so few breakaways 'cos its all 'calculated' and the sprint teams just reel them in unless of course a decent bump/cross wind in the road splits it all up.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Sounds good to me. They had that cobbled stage which was great, so why not a short TT / Hill climb?

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,550
    pinarello001 wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Generally because too many TTs is boring, and if you make one a mountain TT you effectively give the tour straight to a climber.

    If say a 40k TT results in 2 min gaps between climbers and decent TTers, then surely a short mountain TT (barriers all the way, I get your point Rule 74) can have an effect. Like the Paris Nice final stage for example, its not huge but its enough. Roche won it twice (I think) on the last day.
    The fatties can get eliminated for all I care. I know Cav is quick and he's ours, sort of, but there are so few breakaways 'cos its all 'calculated' and the sprint teams just reel them in unless of course a decent bump/cross wind in the road splits it all up.

    Are mountain TTs likely to end up with more calculated riding, rather than attacks? Don't waste your energy on a mountain attack son, you'll pull the minutes in on the uphill TT....
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  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    pinarello001 wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Generally because too many TTs is boring, and if you make one a mountain TT you effectively give the tour straight to a climber.

    If say a 40k TT results in 2 min gaps between climbers and decent TTers, then surely a short mountain TT (barriers all the way, I get your point Rule 74) can have an effect. Like the Paris Nice final stage for example, its not huge but its enough. Roche won it twice (I think) on the last day.
    The fatties can get eliminated for all I care. I know Cav is quick and he's ours, sort of, but there are so few breakaways 'cos its all 'calculated' and the sprint teams just reel them in unless of course a decent bump/cross wind in the road splits it all up.

    Are mountain TTs likely to end up with more calculated riding, rather than attacks? Don't waste your energy on a mountain attack son, you'll pull the minutes in on the uphill TT....

    I guess it depends upon when they're situated in a race... how about using a hill climb as a prologue?

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • esafosfina
    esafosfina Posts: 131
    Quite likely it's also to lessen the chances of too many riders getting HCed out...
  • esafosfina
    esafosfina Posts: 131
    Tour of Luxembourg in 1991 started with a three or four km 'uphill Prologue'... you should have heard the bitching and whingeing from the peloton!
  • Remarkable
    Remarkable Posts: 187
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Didn't they do a TT up Ventoux once in the tour?! Not sure what effect it had on the overall... perhaps too much. Anyone? I'd love to see one up another classic, but I suppose it might be viewed as a 'waste' of a good mountain.

    Long overdue again me thinks...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUY1_h3Lmok
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,550
    EDIT: Bugger, wrong thread
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  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    I'm with you all the way NAD... you are by far the most eloquent poster on here... but..., gulp, ... I think this is in the wrong thread...

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Sorry... I will pretend I never saw it! :D Good luck with that post btw

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I believe they found a body a few days later of someone somewhere down a ravine on the Alp who'd died on the day of the ITT.

    In the utter maddness, no-one noticed.

    Believe it or not, it gets far too busy and it's pretty impossible to police it safely.
    _
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,550
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Sorry... I will pretend I never saw it! :D Good luck with that post btw

    Saw what? :wink:
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  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Sorry... I will pretend I never saw it! :D Good luck with that post btw

    Saw what? :wink:

    Exactly! Keep fighting the good fight. :lol:

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,550
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Sorry... I will pretend I never saw it! :D Good luck with that post btw

    Saw what? :wink:

    Exactly! Keep fighting the good fight. :lol:

    Thanks. Though I'm not sure how to weight compliments from Spurs fans..... :shock:
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  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Sorry... I will pretend I never saw it! :D Good luck with that post btw

    Saw what? :wink:

    Exactly! Keep fighting the good fight. :lol:

    Thanks. Though I'm not sure how to weight compliments from Spurs fans..... :shock:

    I come from a family of Arsenal fans... guess I've always liked to be different/a loser :D Anyhow, strangely, I've never been less interested in football than I am now. Football - a truly mucked up sport if ever there was one!

    Anyway, back on topic... how about a mountain descent TT? Stuart Hall and Eddie Waring could do the commentry.

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,550
    A mountain descent TT? Do you want to make Andy cry?

    Yes, football is pretty f****** at the moment.
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  • smithy21
    smithy21 Posts: 2,204
    The more hilly TT's are generally more of a leveller anyway aren't they?

    Also, if you are a climber attack in the mountains, if you are a TT'er limit your losses and do a great TT. A GC rider needs to be a great all rounder. If anything I would argue that the last few TDF routes have been set so climbers can win and this year is more a throwback to say the Indurain era?
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,184
    Ms Tree wrote:
    The Tour did one up Alpe d'Huez and the Giro did one on Plans de Corones(?) I think it was on unmade roads but can't remember except Pellizotti won it. Oh and the Giro did one at Oropa which Bruseghin won (PTP to me!).

    They've done Plan de Corones twice. Pellizotti won in 2008 and Garzelli in 2010.

    There have been a few that I can remember in the Tour. I reckon a better one would be a longer time trial that includes a big climb or two and a descent rather just a hill climb. A mountain TTT would be good though :lol:
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    I'm sure I remember them doing one in the mid 80's and I've got a picture of Jean Francois Bernard burned into my mind wearing the 'bit of everything' jersey losing time.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,578
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:
    I'm sure I remember them doing one in the mid 80's and I've got a picture of Jean Francois Bernard burned into my mind wearing the 'bit of everything' jersey losing time.

    Didn't he swap bikes half-way as the first half was flat? That resulted in lots of discussion at the time.
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    Ah, 1987 Ventoux time trial and he took yellow! My memory clearly isn't up to much these days. Perhaps it was the following day that I remember.

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