Redundancy, courses and tool kits.

Matt-r8

Well found out yesterday that after 16 years the RAF no longer requires my services. Wasn't really a surprise as I volunteered for it, so all good.
However, I now want a total change of career and thought cycle mechanic. Have been booked on an intensive 14 day course which is at level 3, so should be good enough to secure a job.
I was suprised at just how over subscribed the courses are, so are there already too many mechanics out there?
Other option is, rather than going and working in a shop, I could set up at home and work from my garage. Would many people be interested in this, or do people prefer to get it done at their local bike shop?
I only ask as the tools are quite expensive to buy. Park tools mk-218 comes in at £6000, even though you can gt it in the states for $4399, so about half the price of the Uk.

paul.skibum

I was looking for work for the summer a couple of years ago and asked at my LBS as they were advertising for staff.

I was offered a job after doing a days trial for them - they offered to pay me basically less than minimum wage stating that as I was unqualified I would be on a trial period for the first month with an uplift to minimum wage after that first month.

I am sure if I had a fully qualification and some more experience I might have been on minimum wage from the start. I didn't take the job but my gut reaction is there is not much money in working for a bike shop.

I considered trying to set up a mobile bike repair business in London servicing bikes for people at their offices during the day - I suspect the public liability insurance may be prohibitive though.

Matt-r8

The course is £2400 as well, so not exactly cheap.

brindlescoops

I would also say that most people on here at least do their own basic maintenance, but I would guess if you can set up a shock service and repair business thats under cuts the big boys (should be possible with no massive overheads) you could make some nice cash. You could also look at importing some of the expensive second hand stuff from the US which is pretty cheap in comparison to the UK and refurb and sell on. I know a gut that regurlarly buys top end forks second hand and imports them, reckons it way way cheaper than anything you can get over here, just have to be prepared for the risk of them being un salvageable.

Only a few thoughs. . . .

supersonic

The best mechanics I have seen have no qualifications at all - quite old lol, but they have been going a long time and have learned a lot of stuff.

Many shops still don't require quals, though it is becoming more common. One reason is that some of the courses are crap and don't teach you much. You are going to need to learn more than they can teach as each brake has its own way of been bled, and they won't tell you much about forks and shocks (you get to work on two brands). Still, are more useful than not of course.

It is very hard to set up by yourself, seen many try, all pretty much have failed. As you say, the cost of the tools is prohibitive: then you are going to need to keep stock for basics, and that means a lot of accounts with a lot of suppliers. Then you need room to store the bikes, insurance for that and may be permission.

My advice would be to approach a few shops and tell them the position you are in. Many shops will take on enthusiasts and train them up themselves with the stuff they work with. You'd be surprised how many will not insist on Cytech.

Matt-r8

This is a breakdown of what is covered on the course. I'm thinking hand built wheels could be good.
Day1
Health and Safety
Risk assessing
Job sheets
Data sheets
COSHH data sheets
Tools, description and use of all tools used on the course
Puncture repairs
Removing and replacing wheels
Tyres, inner tubes, valves and accessories. fitting and removal
Chain fitting removal and types
Bearings, sizes and grades
Pedal fitting, replacing and thread checking and tapping

Day 2
Gear setup and adjustment (Shimano)
Chainset removal and fitting
Chain ring removal fitting and replacements
Bottom bracket fitting and removal and replacements
Seat tube dimensions
Stem dimensions
Handlebar dimensions

Day 3
Gear review plus instruction of other types of gear systems (Campagnolo, Sram)
Cassettes and freewheel replacing and fitting
Brake types, fitting removal and adjustment
Front and rear mech types, fitting removal and adjustment
Jockey wheel replacement

Cables, types of inners and outers, replacing cables
Headsets adjustment
Headset fitting and removal

Day 4
Gear refresher
Hub adjustments
Hub servicing
Frame preparation. Facing and cleaning bottom brackets, reaming headsets and crown races
Tapping and cleaning threads
Seat tube reaming
Augment a cycle (Government term for add accessories to a bike)
Theory and practice of fitting:
Child seats, computers, locks, bottle cages, racks, mudguards and lights

Day 5
Theory of wheel building
Demonstration of components and tools
Spoke length calculation
Wheel building demonstration
Wheel lacing practice
Day 6
Calculate spoke lengths and build a pair of wheels

Day 7

Written exams
Final practical assessment is to dismantle and rebuild bike

Day 8
Disc Brakes
System types, Brake pads, Pad types, Brands, Cleaning, Wear, Bedding in methods, Squeaking / warbling, Rotors, Mounting types, Caliper fitting, Caliper alignment and adjustment, Shimano Brake Bleeding, Forward Bleed, Back bleed, Dual bleed
Day 9
Disc Brakes
Hope brake bleeding, Hope pad alignment, Avid Juicy brake bleeding, Avid Elixr brake bleeding, Caliper strip down and rebuild, Lever strip down and rebuild
Day 10
Suspension Forks

Rider setup
Compression and rebound settings and adjustments, Determining sag measurement, Lower leg servicing of forks, Servicing of coil and spring Rochshox forks

Servicing and fault finding of single and dual air Rockshox, Fox, Magura and Marzocchi Forks.

 

Day 11
Suspension systems
Types of suspensions, Single pivots, DW links, Four bar, Faux bar, VPP, Benefits and problems with different systems

Rear suspension

Rider setup
Compression and rebound settings and adjustments
Determining sag measurement

Fox and Rockshox shock servicing and Fault finding.

Frame alignment

Tools for alignment measuring. Methods for alignment checking. Cold setting frames

Frame geometries

Manufactures drawings. Interoperating differences between brands. Stack and reach system. Bike Cad demonstrations.

Day 12
Wheel Servicing
Shimano

Data sheets. Cup and cone system sizes. Cone replacement. Bearing replacement. Dismantle and rebuild hubs. Freehub body replacement

Campagnolo
Data sheets. Cup and cone system sizes. Dismantle and rebuild. Freehub body servicing and bearing replacement. Cone replacement. Bearing replacement. Track replacement
Mavic
Data sheets. Cartridge system. Dismantle and rebuild. Freehub body servicing and bearing replacement. Bearing replacement. Bearing adjustment. Differences between Mavic systems.
Hope

Data sheets. Cartridge system. Dismantle and rebuild. Freehub body servicing and bearing replacement. Bearing replacement. Bearing adjustment. Axle sizes and changing axles

 
Day 13
Pedals

Tool overview
Servicing- Strip down, clean and bearing replacement. Shimano Road. Shimano MTB. Look. Speedplay. DMR V8 and V12.

Headsets and Bearings

External cup, integrated and semi-integrated
Tools for measuring sizes and angles of bearings
Frame prep for integrated headsets
Types and sizes of bearings for integrated headsets
New standards from Cane creek
Bartape fitting
Cork tape
Leather and synthetic tape
Chains
Tool overview
Installation and removal
Shimano. Campagnolo 10 speed. Campagnolo 11 speed.
Chain sets
Installation, removal and bearing replacement of Campag Ultra Torque
Installation, removal and bearing replacement of Campag Power Torque
Installation, removal and bearing replacement of the new press fit style chain sets and bottom brackets
BB30, BB86, BB90, BB92, BB94, BB95, BB386EVO
Day 14
Internal hub systems
Wheel removal and replacement
Gear cabling
Gear adjustment
Sprocket replacement
Cleaning
Servicing
Part replacements
Seal replacement
Hub brake service
Data sheets
Problem solving
Internal hub systems to be serviced
Rohloff, Alfine 11 speed, Alfine 8 speed / Nexus, SRAM, Sturmey Archer 3 speed, Sturmey Archer 5 speed, Sturmey Archer 8 speed, Sturmey Archer with internal brake.
 

 

 

 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Chunkers1980

The last few days will be interesting.

supersonic

Not for me, a lot of money for stuff you'd learn in a shop and online. And you still have to keep learning as tech and equipment moves so quick.

Up to you of course, is intensive.

nicklouse

Ok my 10ps worth.

1 bike shops have tools.

2 ask bike shops what the pay difference would be?

Bet you would not recoupe the osts for some years.

3 shops will send mechanics off on suitable courses as needed.

4. Would I get into the bike industry (again)? Not if I want to make any money.

Ask lots of questions before you spend a penny. What spannering history do you have?

Matt-r8

I'm a plant engineer by trade, hydraulics, pneumatics, cryo etc, but most recently been fixing land rovers and the new MAN SV trucks, having completed the course for all the electronic systems etc. going to Uni next year to train as a paramedic. This is just something of a sideline until I'm qualified.

nicklouse

Matt-r8 wrote:

I'm a plant engineer by trade, hydraulics, pneumatics, cryo etc, but most recently been fixing land rovers and the new MAN SV trucks, having completed the course for all the electronic systems etc. going to Uni next year to train as a paramedic. This is just something of a sideline until I'm qualified.

In that case there is no point in going on the course you know enough. Read the sites in my sig they will give you most of what you need.

The makers sited will give any other info needed.

The Rookie

If you want to work for yourself I would suggest you get employed by an LBS (or chain, don't rule out Halfords or Evans) and then specialise in something at home, a chap near me specialises in DH specific stuff (he also races), mostly shock/fork servicing that most LBS won't do, he also buys and sells DH specific stuff from his garage.

Matt-r8

Cheers for the comments and advice. I realise I could probably work on just my previous engineering know how, but I really could do with the qualifications to back it up. I spent 4 hours bleeding Avid elixir r brakes the other week, followed the instructions to the dot, but still f£&@?d it up.
As for the tools, due to the pound gaining value against the Euro, I can pick up a £6000 toolkit in Germany for just £4700 lol. Still not cheap, but quality costs.

delcol

i was in your situation last year i got made redundant not through choice though... here i am almost 12months later still unemployed, i have lost count of the number of jobs i have applied for,, it's over 85 and thats just this year.
i to wanted to work in the bike industry poss as a mechanic,, i to have considered going on courses but as others have said the expense just doesnt seem to justify itself.. i have applied for jobs at the big chains and lbs even attended an interview at one lbs but did not get the job.. and these are only minimum wage jobs @ £6.08 ph

and like you (people have suggested) to set up on my own and work for my self, but again the cost is silly tools,insurance,parts,etc make it hard to actually do..
good luck with your course etc i hope you have more luck than me....

nicklouse

Matt-r8 wrote:

Cheers for the comments and advice. I realise I could probably work on just my previous engineering know how, but I really could do with the qualifications to back it up. I spent 4 hours bleeding Avid elixir r brakes the other week, followed the instructions to the dot, but still f£&@?d it up.
As for the tools, due to the pound gaining value against the Euro, I can pick up a £6000 toolkit in Germany for just £4700 lol. Still not cheap, but quality costs.

You don't need the qualms you don't need the tools.

Been here done that.

If you want to train in anything do well building.

4 hours to bleed an avid set of brakes. You must have been doing something wrong. Don't think my first set took more than 1/2 hour to shorten and bleed.

Again before splashing any cash go talk to some shops and just see what the deal is. And what the spend will or will not bring in.

Hell I worked for free at a bike shop while on leave from work (at reduced pay) and still made more money than them.

diy

Basic advice about setting up a business (i've done a few) never start with large set up costs, without understanding where your revenue and margin will come from. Do it as a side line, even it that means working odd days in an LBS to help with the peaks. I reckon 3-6 months working 1 or 2 days a week in an LBS workshop will cover that course knowledge and give you an income too. Then you can do a bit on the side and see if you can build a reputation that can create a sustainable business.

Personally I reckon there is more money in fixing Land rovers.

A basic analysis of your business case gives you some frightening ROI.
Assuming no labour costs (unrealistic)
an avg of £30 profit per job rising to £50 year 5 and a good start of 75 jobs in Y1 rising to 400 in Y4
Financing your start up costs over 3 years (at standard bank rates). gives you a net loss of around £1k year 1 and 2 and an ability pay yourself min wage in Y4 on.

snowrider

diy wrote:

Personally I reckon there is more money in fixing Land rovers.

My thoughts exactly, I am sure you can make way more doing this

diy

I'd gladly pay double min wage to get my 90 fixed

supersonic

As nick says, you do not really need the quals in this trade.

delcol

supersonic wrote:

As nick says, you do not really need the quals in this trade.

judging by the mistakes i found when i serviced that guys whyte 46 the other week i would agree.. the quality of work or lack of quality shocked me.. the bike had been into a lbs in warrington for a drivetrain which had now worn out and the guy asked if i would fit the new drivetrain and service the bike.
i could not believe my eyes when i started to dismantle the bike.. my 5 year old daughter could of done a better job than the numpty in the shop...

supersonic

He had some quals?

nicklouse

supersonic wrote:

As nick says, you do not really need the quals in this trade.

and if you are good you can get most of it for free.

use the money to pay your self while you work for nothing at a bike shop to see if you can get a job......

reformedfatty

Is it just me who thinks that the idea of taking on a low wage job after 16 years of skilled work sounds absolutely barking?

delcol

reformedfatty wrote:

Is it just me who thinks that the idea of taking on a low wage job after 16 years of skilled work sounds absolutely barking?

i thought this way last year when i lost my job.. "i'm not getting out of bed for anything less than £9.50 an hour" then the realisation sets in 95% of jobs availible are minimum wage jobs so if you want to work then it's gonna have to work for less money,,,

supersonic

Depends wht you want from life - I want a simple one with no stress, so would happily take less money and fewer hours and remain happy and healthy.

That said I can't imagine things much more stressful than starting a bike business!

delcol

but after surriving on £70 a week jsa since october last year,, i would be glad to earn minnimum wage, at least thats £240 a week..

thats half what i was on in my last job...

miss notax

BrindleScoops wrote:

I would also say that most people on here at least do their own basic maintenance, but I would guess if you can set up a shock service and repair business thats under cuts the big boys (should be possible with no massive overheads) you could make some nice cash. You could also look at importing some of the expensive second hand stuff from the US which is pretty cheap in comparison to the UK and refurb and sell on. I know a gut that regurlarly buys top end forks second hand and imports them, reckons it way way cheaper than anything you can get over here, just have to be prepared for the risk of them being un salvageable.

Only a few thoughs. . . .

Agree about the forks / shocks, but I think there is also a market for bike maintennance etc. I am not mechanically minded (I can take things apart but don't trust myself to put them back together again) and get the bike shop to do everything but the REALLY basic stuff. Notax also relies on the bike shop as he just doesn't have the time to anything himself.

Matt-r8

This isn't really a full time forever job, just something that I can do whilst studying. I'm in a fortunate position financially, so no worries there for a few years at least. I'm not going to do the 14 day course now. Probably going to do something in Gas as it's more suited to mt background.
Thanks again for the advice, and for once I've taken it lol. Sometimes let my heart rule my head

chazkayak

Quite scary topic this as im due to "change careers" soon. Was thinking of doing something similar.

I also have a good friend who has done the same. Cytech cse, bought tools etc....works from his house/Garage .............Not earning much now though, but it is early days for him two months.

supersonic

Is such a hard nit to crack on your own. And believe me, you won't be working on lovely bikes that cost several grand all the time - 90% of bikes in bike shops for repair and knackered all clunkers with obscure parts. Further reinforces that learning as much as you can for yourself is a good idea. Park Tools and Sheldon website has far more info than any Cytech course.

lpretro1

There is a better course to go on than you have listed above. Contact Alf or Teresa at 'The Bike Inn' for their City & Guilds course - held in Spalding. It is very practical, you will learn a lot more stuff and less costly. http://www.bike-inn.co.uk/training_courses.asp